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TOUGH QUESTIONS

Are we conscious or otherwise aware of his absence in our afterlife without God?




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YES!


This line, is quite explicit.


Luke 13:28

In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God
but you yourselves cast out.



Let's do this:



"IN THAT PLACE...."
What is that place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth?
HELL.




"WHEN YOU SEE Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God....."
"....BUT YOU YOURSELVES CAST OUT."


The wicked will see that they're not in same place as where all the saved are!



The wicked will know and realize that they have been cast out!





We are aware - we are conscious - whether we are with GOD, or without GOD.





Didn't I explain that to you?
Go back.


#1,543.
 
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One thing I do believe with certainty is that there is an eternal punishment, and the wicked will be conscious about it.

As to the "fire" itself - it could be taken literally, or it could be a figure of speech - but what I know, based from the Bible, is that it wouldn't be pleasant, to say the least.
But why are they punished for all eternity and why is the simple unbelief of a creator is enough to spend eternity in torture?
 
But why are they punished for all eternity and why is the simple unbelief of a creator is enough to spend eternity in torture?


Rejection of God.

That's the consequence for rejecting Christ (GOD in human form).


We have been forewarned so many times that, that's how it's going to be for those who reject Christ.
We are given the choice.
 
Rejection of God.

That's the consequence for rejecting Christ (GOD in human form).


We have been forewarned so many times that, that's how it's going to be for those who reject Christ.
We are given the choice.
So if I had a child who rejected my love, would I be just to lock him in my basement and hire GITMO interrogators to torture him forever?
 
So if I had a child who rejected my love, would I be just to lock him in my basement and hire GITMO interrogators to torture him forever?


You're not GOD.
You're not The Creator.

That's your opinion.
noted.

But you seem to have some serious comprehension issues.
You didn't understand that I'd already answered your question.


Post #1,551.


Heck - you don't even know what you're arguing about in the other thread - The Bible!
😁

That's been noted too.


Have a nice day.
 
You're not GOD.
You're not The Creator.

God is supposed to have a higher standard than us, right? So why is it ok for God to send people to eternal torture simply not believing in him while I can't torture my hypothetical children for not loving me?
That's your opinion.
noted.

It's a question based off of God's supposed morality.
Heck - you don't even know what you're arguing about in the other thread - The Bible!
😁

That's been noted too.


Have a nice day.
You keep saying that, but you keep coming back. Nobody is holding a gun to your head to make you respond to me. Either quit altogether or stop saying that you're done with this conversation.
 
"This video features a portion of the debate that Christopher Hitchens and John Lennox had several years ago around the question, "Is God Great?".
I honestly think this was one of the all-time great debates about God in recorded history. Both gentlemen are highly intelligent and studied in their position... The truth will out!"




 
Come to think of it - yes, it's a good analogy.

God will be gone from those who reject Him. SEPARATION from GOD.

The ultimate farewell. They'll go to another place.
The problem with Christian philosophy is that it is based on threats. Do what I say, obey or suffer. That is not love, that is abuse.
 
You're not GOD.
You're not The Creator.

That's your opinion.
noted.

But you seem to have some serious comprehension issues.
You didn't understand that I'd already answered your question.


Post #1,551.


Heck - you don't even know what you're arguing about in the other thread - The Bible!
😁

That's been noted too.


Have a nice day.
The father did create his child. Its called procreation, or what is commonly known as sex.

You also avoided answering his question. It is a simple yes or no question. Not answering it that way is avoiding the question (or not having the balls to actually answer it).
 
The word "conscious" can have several meanings, but it most commonly refers to being aware or awake.

aware of and responding to one's surroundings; awake.
Google

Yet, Jesus speaks of death as sleep...you know nothing, you feel nothing...

"After he said these things, he added: “Lazarus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him." The disciples then said to him: “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get well.”Jesus, however, had spoken about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep.Then Jesus said to them plainly: “Lazarus has died,” John 11:11-14

Yet, Solomon speaks of death as knowing nothing at all...feeling nothing at all...

"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing at all, nor do they have any more reward, because all memory of them is forgotten. Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they no longer have any share in what is done under the sun." Ecclesiastes 9:5,6

"Whatever your hand finds to do, do with all your might, for there is no work nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom in the Grave, where you are going." Ecclesiastes 9"10 NWT

New American Standard Bible
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might; for there is no activity, planning, knowledge, or wisdom in Sheol where you are going.
Ecclesiastes 9:5 reads, “For the living know that they will die, / but the dead know nothing; / they have no further reward, / and even their name is forgotten.” This verse is sometimes used as a proof text for annihilationism, but that concept is not what is being communicated here. The “dead know nothing,” but in what way?

It is clear from other places in the Bible that this verse cannot mean the dead have absolutely no knowledge. Jesus said in Matthew 25:46 that sinners “will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” Every person will spend eternity with God in heaven or apart from Him in hell. It seems that each person will have feelings, thoughts, and abilities that exist in eternity.

In fact, Luke 16:19–31 offers an example of human capabilities in the afterlife. Lazarus is in paradise in eternal joy, while the rich man is in torment in hell (called “Hades”). The rich man has feelings, can talk, and has the ability to remember, think, and reason.

Continued below:
 
The key to understanding the statement “the dead know nothing” is found in the theme of the book of Ecclesiastes. Ecclesiastes is written specifically from an earthly perspective. The key phrase, repeated throughout the book, is under the sun, used about thirty times. Solomon is commenting on an earth-bound life, “under the sun,” without God. His conclusion, also repeated throughout the book, is that everything from that perspective is “vanity” or emptiness (Ecclesiastes 1:2).

When a person dies “under the sun,” the earthly perspective, without God, is that it’s over. He is no longer under the sun. There is no more knowledge to give or be given, just a grave to mark his remains. Those who have died have “no further reward” in this life; they no longer have the ability to enjoy life like those who are living. Eventually, “even their name is forgotten” (Ecclesiastes 9:5).

Ecclesiastes 9:5 displays a chiastic structure (ABBA format) like this:

A For the living know that they will die,
B but the dead know nothing;
B they have no further reward,
A and even their name is forgotten.

Lines 1 and 4 are parallel thoughts in the sense that the living know death is coming while those who remain after a person dies quickly forget those who have died. The second and third lines lay down associated ideas in parallel: the dead know nothing, and the dead can no longer enjoy or be rewarded for their activities in this life.

The saying “the dead know nothing” seems to be a negative sentiment, but it is not without a positive message. Solomon encourages his readers to live life to its fullest, knowing life is short. In the end, the fullest life is one that honors God and keeps His ways (Ecclesiastes 12:13–14). The entire article is found here: https://www.gotquestions.org/dead-know-nothing.html
 
The key to understanding the statement “the dead know nothing” is found in the theme of the book of Ecclesiastes. Ecclesiastes is written specifically from an earthly perspective. The key phrase, repeated throughout the book, is under the sun, used about thirty times. Solomon is commenting on an earth-bound life, “under the sun,” without God. His conclusion, also repeated throughout the book, is that everything from that perspective is “vanity” or emptiness (Ecclesiastes 1:2).

When a person dies “under the sun,” the earthly perspective, without God, is that it’s over. He is no longer under the sun. There is no more knowledge to give or be given, just a grave to mark his remains. Those who have died have “no further reward” in this life; they no longer have the ability to enjoy life like those who are living. Eventually, “even their name is forgotten” (Ecclesiastes 9:5).

Ecclesiastes 9:5 displays a chiastic structure (ABBA format) like this:

A For the living know that they will die,
B but the dead know nothing;
B they have no further reward,
A and even their name is forgotten.

Lines 1 and 4 are parallel thoughts in the sense that the living know death is coming while those who remain after a person dies quickly forget those who have died. The second and third lines lay down associated ideas in parallel: the dead know nothing, and the dead can no longer enjoy or be rewarded for their activities in this life.

The saying “the dead know nothing” seems to be a negative sentiment, but it is not without a positive message. Solomon encourages his readers to live life to its fullest, knowing life is short. In the end, the fullest life is one that honors God and keeps His ways (Ecclesiastes 12:13–14). The entire article is found here: https://www.gotquestions.org/dead-know-nothing.html

lol...I do believe that song and dance is called...

 
So if I had a child who rejected my love, would I be just to lock him in my basement and hire GITMO interrogators to torture him forever?
If in rejecting your love your child became a terrorist then he would receive his just deserts regardless of your love. Forever? That depends upon whether or not your child can be rehabilitated. Those who can be are purified in Pergatory. Those who cannot be are eternally damned.
 
If in rejecting your love your child became a terrorist then he would receive his just deserts regardless of your love. Forever? That depends upon whether or not your child can be rehabilitated.
That's one extreme, yes, but supposedly there are Mother Teresa equivalents in hell for the mere sin of unbelief or the belief of another deity. If my son rejected me as his father, but went on to be the most kind, loving, and charitable person you can meet, am I still justified in locking him up in my torture basement forever?
 
That's one extreme, yes, but supposedly there are Mother Teresa equivalents in hell for the mere sin of unbelief or the belief of another deity. If my son rejected me as his father, but went on to be the most kind, loving, and charitable person you can meet, am I still justified in locking him up in my torture basement forever?
I don’t know why you’re under that impression, but the bottom line is that the Father is the definer and adjudicator of what it means to be good and there are consequences for behaving otherwise. The severity of those consequences depends upon the capacity of the person to be rehabilitated.
 
I don’t know why you’re under that impression, but the bottom line is that the Father is the definer and adjudicator of what it means to be good and there are consequences for behaving otherwise. The severity of those consequences depends upon the capacity of the person to be rehabilitated.
This is my point. Is an atheist going to hell even if he does his best to treat his fellow man and nature with kindness and love? Is a Christian who believes with all his heart that Jesus is his Lord and Savior going to hell because he's happily married to his husband?
 
This is my point. Is an atheist going to hell even if he does his best to treat his fellow man and nature with kindness and love? Is a Christian who believes with all his heart that Jesus is his Lord and Savior going to hell because he's happily married to his husband?
Man’s judgement of what constitutes good is insufficient and there is no negotiating. As I said before, the consequences of being found wanting depends upon the capacity of the person to be rehabilitated.
 
Man’s judgement of what constitutes good is insufficient and there is no negotiating. As I said before, the consequences of being found wanting depends upon the capacity of the person to be rehabilitated.
So again, is a gay Christian or a good working atheist going to hell? Keep in mind, I'm asking under the assumption that God is as provable as the ground you walk on, which we haven't even established.
 
So again, is a gay Christian or a good working atheist going to hell? Keep in mind, I'm asking under the assumption that God is as provable as the ground you walk on, which we haven't even established.
Again, that depends on the capacity of the person to be rehabilitated.
 
Again, that depends on the capacity of the person to be rehabilitated.
Rehabilitated from what? These people are giving to charity, treating people with kindness, fairness, love, etc. Exhibiting and internalizing all the fruits of the Spirit, only one is an atheist and dies an atheist and one is a gay Christian married to his husband and dies of old age still gay and married to his husband. Where are they going according to your religion?
 
Rehabilitated from what? These people are giving to charity, treating people with kindness, fairness, love, etc. Exhibiting and internalizing all the fruits of the Spirit, only one is an atheist and dies an atheist and one is a gay Christian married to his husband and dies of old age still gay and married to his husband. Where are they going according to your religion?
I’ve already answered that. Several times.
 
I’ve already answered that. Several times.
No, you haven't. You gave a hem-hawing deflection to avoid answering directly. You believe in a heaven and hell, correct? Nobody can enter heaven without accepting Jesus as their Lord and Savior (and/or not be in a homosexual relationship presumably), correct? Therefore it's entirely feasible, in fact probable, that there are people being tortured in hell for essentially being Christians in every single way except for actually believing in Christ (or any deity) or for being gay, correct? Therefore, I would be just, as a father, to lock my son in a torture basement forever for simply not loving me, correct? The only reason you're not answering this directly, potentially sending people who fall under the two categories I presented to hell, is because you can't. And the reason, if I may be so bold, you can't answer is because deep down you know how morally reprehensible it is for an all good God to send good people to hell for the simple act of unbelief or acknowledging, accepting, and embracing an immutable part of their personality such as being gay, correct?
 
I answered it. You just don’t like the answer.
Because it's deflection. Look, I used to be a staunch young earth creationist. You can even find my creationist postings here in this forum. I'm not going to force you to scour my past to find my creationist posts, but as probably @dairyair can attest to, I was rather blunt about the prospect of you being doomed to hell. And if you actually believe in the things you post, you should be intellectually honest because people's souls are at stake.
 
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