Top Trump officials will meet with China amid trade war (1 Viewer)

[ElChupacabra]

i gaveyou the reason Trump went with tariffs on China, instead of sitting around a table talking about talking.

You gave a reason, but just because you provided one doesn't make it a good one. Now here there administration is talking about deescalating the fight they started.

Time is on China's side-
especially if a Dem would become POTUS..I agree tariffs should have been targeted, and in Canada's case us the USMCA disputes process
Trump is too enamored of tariffs as a US revenue source. Someone should ask him if he understands revenues go the the USA/same as taxes.

Yep, I have no issue with this either. I am not a "tariffs never!" advocate, since they do have a place in trade policy, but like any tool it's how it's used that matters. As for your comment about Trump being enamored with tariffs as a revenue source, that too is completely misguided in the current world. He's harkening back to a time when mercantilism was still a thing, and even back then it did not go well in terms of economic stability globally.

 

[ElChupacabra]

The lack of realism in writing melodrama makes it what it is, pure theatre. If one was to be realistic one would know that rebuilding trade deals after blowing them up take time sometimes years before even the first phase and evaluation period of an agreement is reached. For example, after Trump took office, he announced that he wanted a new trade deal with Canada and Mexico ASAP. It took nine months to even start negotiations (the first round), and it took nearly 16 months before it was completed and signed.

It took 19- or 20-months total before it was fully ratified and entered into force - the Trump tariffs took till 2019 to be lifted, and with amendments took till 2020 to implemented.

And even now it is still in staged evaluation.

So, it didn't last but 3 1/2 years for Trump to start screaming again.

Mind you, this is an extremely quick timeline (the TPP trade agreement that Trump trashed took seven years to negotiate and implement).

All these fireworks the author (and others) love to post are painfully ignorant and more interested in cheerleading and/or booing than facing reality: it will take YEARS to undo Trump's reckless destruction ... he broke it and given he failed the first time to create something lasting with all three trading partners he isn't the one to fix his own mistakes.

In a sane universe he would be fired and be selling golf shoes for a living.

He wouldn't last a year as CEO of a publicly traded company, that's certain based on his current economic decisions. What's been fascinating about all of this is how he's managing to undo the stability the US has created and benefited from for decades over what he thinks is "unfair trade" when I'm pretty sure he has no concept of what the US has built to ensure its own economic hegemony.

What he's managed to do is give all of the nations who have been looking to untether themselves from the US financial system an easy way to justify it and I suspect we'll see new partnerships form nations invest less and move away from the US. He's the proof of concept that the stability which kept nations tied to our financial system is no longer a sure thing, since investment decisions are based on long term projections. Nations now know it is possible to elect leaders in the US who are impulsive and could launch unprovoked trade wars against their trading partners.

 

[Mycroft]

I'm reminded of something I learned way back during Trump's first term.

China is very good at showing their sweet, lovable Panda and then turning around and bringing out their Dragon. "We want to work with Trump." "We will fight to the end!"

Trump is good at that, too. "Xi and I get along very well. He's a great leader." "By the way, I'm going to add another 125% tariff on top of all the other tariffs!"

Trump has done this with leaders of other countries, too. Just today, he talked about how much he likes Carney...but when asked if he'll reduce tariffs on Canada (right in front of Carney), Trump said, "No. Why should I?"

So...both Xi and Trump know how to dance and that's what they are doing right now. Both sides know how this dance is going to end, too.

 

[Tangmo]

A summary of the chain of threads that led us here:

May 1, mass unrest in China, they’re gonna crack any day now.

Protests by unpaid Chinese workers spread amid factory closures

https://www.rfa.org/english/china/2025/04/29/china-us-tariff-protests-workers-wages/ Across the country – from Hunan province’s Dao county in central China to Sichuan’s Suining city in the southwest and Inner Mongolia’s Tongliao city to the northeast – hundreds of disgruntled workers have taken...

debatepolitics.com

May 1, so much for falling apart, just a few hours later now they are merely open to talks.

China signals opening for trade talks with US

https://www.ft.com/content/e6e66a65-7a9e-4aa5-85a2-e223ca487398 Chinese state media has said there would be “no harm” in holding trade talks with the Trump administration, indicating a softening of Beijing’s position as both sides look for a way out of their crushing tariff war. The gesture...

debatepolitics.com

May 2, China is now merely evaluating the possibility that talks could exist someday.

China's Trade Talks Overtures

Original article by WSJ on China offering fentanly concessions to start trade talks https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2025-05-02/china-hints-at-possible-thaw-with-us-in-trade-talks-video Beijing is considering a Fentanyl offer to the US and potentially offering an off-ramp from hostilities...

debatepolitics.com

May 4, oh wait we’re back to China is falling apart and retreating as fast as possible and desperate for talks.

China is losing the tariffs war and retreating as fast as it can

some empirical data https://nypost.com/2025/05/03/opinion/despite-their-denials-china-is-losing-the-tariffs-war/ The Korean press has confirmed that “the United States and China have begun behind-the-scenes contact in relation to the ‘tariff war,’ ” and a high-ranking Chinese delegation was...

debatepolitics.com

May 6, I guess they weren’t so desperate because now not only are there no talks, but they have been downgraded to “engagements” that may or may not happen. But there could be a meeting about something. Maybe over coffee.

Top Trump officials will meet with China amid trade war

not trade talks but "de-escalation" of the rhetoric. Also China seems to be walking back it's demands that tariffs be dropped prior to trade talks, but these are high level meetings / "engagements" https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-china-trade-war-meeting/ Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent will...

debatepolitics.com

I really do feel bad for the OP. So desperate to make Donald look good, yet failing so badly on every front. Each thread only serving to highlight how incompetent Trump is.

Deflation is strangling the economy while Xi and his apparatchiks are unable to cajole, prompt, push or motivate the mass of its middle income population to spend.

Xi has had to lift his 125% tariffs on US goods which the Chinese weren't buying anyway because they won't spend. Had Xi left the 125% tariff in effect the Chinese people who have lost confidence in him would have dismissed him outright and finally as any kind of effective or competent leader.

What the Chinese population is seeing is Xi mimic Trump erratically by announcing tariffs then calling 'em off while pretending he's in control. Then Xi unsuccessfully demanding Trump ease tariffs before talks while having to agree to preliminary talks in Geneva anyway and regardless.

Each Xi and Trump want and need to ease off on the tariffs but Trump wants his pound of China flesh. Given the CCP export model is in shambles and deflation rules, Xi has to give it to him. GDP is down to 1% to 3% and the Chinese are sitting on their money, gold and silver. While they are not buying whether there are tariffs or not, Xi is looking very bad at not being able any more to successfully manage the CCP-USA relationship. Xi is losing face with his own people for sure. Trump will keep some tariffs on some CCP exports just to make this worse for Xi if for no other reason or purpose.

 

[ElChupacabra]

I'm reminded of something I learned way back during Trump's first term.

China is very good at showing their sweet, lovable Panda and then turning around and bringing out their Dragon. "We want to work with Trump." "We will fight to the end!"

Trump is good at that, too. "Xi and I get along very well. He's a great leader." "By the way, I'm going to add another 125% tariff on top of all the other tariffs!"

Trump has done this with leaders of other countries, too. Just today, he talked about how much he likes Carney...but when asked if he'll reduce tariffs on Canada (right in front of Carney), Trump said, "No. Why should I?"

So...both Xi and Trump know how to dance and that's what they are doing right now. Both sides know how this dance is going to end, too.

Yeah, that was a stroke of "genius" comparable to his comment about how the US doesn't do much business with Canada.

 

[maxparrish]

I'm reminded of something I learned way back during Trump's first term.

China is very good at showing their sweet, lovable Panda and then turning around and bringing out their Dragon. "We want to work with Trump." "We will fight to the end!"

Trump is good at that, too. "Xi and I get along very well. He's a great leader." "By the way, I'm going to add another 125% tariff on top of all the other tariffs!"

Trump has done this with leaders of other countries, too. Just today, he talked about how much he likes Carney...but when asked if he'll reduce tariffs on Canada (right in front of Carney), Trump said, "No. Why should I?"

So...both Xi and Trump know how to dance and that's what they are doing right now. Both sides know how this dance is going to end, too.

Sure, he has done this, but there isn't any talent to being pugnacious and polarizing. It serves no point other than being an asshole and reinforcing his image as a shallow bully. If you want to see shrewdness rather than childish preening follow Putin - Trump is just a bully with a fact free brain, when Putin speaks, people listen...or else.

 

[Callen]

China has been very clear, Trump de-escalates first then maybe they’ll talk

The meeting is billed as a de-escalation meeting. I suspect the Chinese position will be that American tariffs must be dropped before they talk trade and I don't think they will budge until that happens. The talks will take forever and ever and very little change.

 

[Airyaman]

The meeting is billed as a de-escalation meeting. I suspect the Chinese position will be that American tariffs must be dropped before they talk trade and I don't think they will budge until that happens. The talks will take forever and ever and very little change.

And just like last time China will make promises and then make very little effort in keeping them. They know Trump just wants a "win".

 

[Callen]

Trump's not a political hack who thinks winning and saving face is everything

Do you really , really believe that? Really? With Trump it's ALL about saving face and winning!

 

[Crakhobarbie]

Trump, the master of 'the art of the deal' knows when to be firm and and when to be diplomatic and gentle. These talks are framed so that both sides can claim victory and show that they're both actively working on the problem. This important meeting is just step one in reaching a final resolution.

What an absurd statement.
The only "deal" donald is brewing up, is his seventh bankruptcy.
The bankrupting of America.

 

[eohrnberger]

Of course Trump understands. He knows he has the US in a win-win position.

Better to have a president use leverage on China to address their many WTO, IP violations and other malfeasance.
All Biden could muster was to not enforce the Phase One of the Trump trade deal, having leverage on China and not using it, major F-Up by Biden.
But then again, Biden was bought and paid for by the Chinese.

 

[eohrnberger]

I'm reminded of something I learned way back during Trump's first term.

China is very good at showing their sweet, lovable Panda and then turning around and bringing out their Dragon. "We want to work with Trump." "We will fight to the end!"

Trump is good at that, too. "Xi and I get along very well. He's a great leader." "By the way, I'm going to add another 125% tariff on top of all the other tariffs!"

Trump has done this with leaders of other countries, too. Just today, he talked about how much he likes Carney...but when asked if he'll reduce tariffs on Canada (right in front of Carney), Trump said, "No. Why should I?"

So...both Xi and Trump know how to dance and that's what they are doing right now. Both sides know how this dance is going to end, too.

Given that Chinese culture places a high value on saving face, I'm guessing that Trump knows this too, and won't cause China to lose face to get the results needed.

 

[jpn]

U.S. Trade Representative Jamieson Greer will "meet with his counterpart from the People's Republic of China to discuss trade matters" during a trip to Switzerland, his office said in a statement.

Oh, goody, a meeting.

If China is smart--and it is way smarter than Trump and idiot sycophants--they'll wait a while. Trump is increasingly desperate as the U.S. economy begins to feel the weight of his voluntary destruction of supply chains.

The longer trading partners wait, the better deals they will get from slick, uncomprehending Donny.

 

[jpn]

Given that Chinese culture places a high value on saving face, I'm guessing that Trump knows this too, and won't cause China to lose face to get the results needed.

You have it backwards. China can wait it out. They don't have to respond to public pressure like the U.S. does. Look how they handled Covid. That never would have been tolerated in a democracy.

China is in the driver's seat, not Trump.

 

[anatta]

Oh, goody, a meeting.

If China is smart--and it is way smarter than Trump and idiot sycophants--they'll wait a while. Trump is increasingly desperate as the U.S. economy begins to feel the weight of his voluntary destruction of supply chains.

The longer trading partners wait, the better deals they will get from slick, uncomprehending Donny.

trump is increasingly desperate as the U.S. economy begins to feel the weight of his voluntary destruction of supply chains.

like what?
China initiated the talks

 

[jpn]

Of course Trump understands. He knows he has the US in a win-win position.

The US is in a lose-lose position. All Trump can do now is try to stanch the bleeding.

 

[jpn]

like what?
China initiated the talks

I read the OP article. It doesn't say who initiated the talks. For all we know, the U.S. has been pleading with China every day to begin negotiations and it's China that's been resisting. That would be my guess, anyway.

Also, by the way, as a proud non-member of the cult, I don't trust a single word that comes out of the Trump administration.

 

[Mycroft]

The US is in a lose-lose position. All Trump can do now is try to stanch the bleeding.

And yet, it's China that has thousands of factories shutting down, tens of thousands of workers out of a job and thousands protesting publicly. And it'll only get worse for them.

Who's losing?

 

[Pound4abrown]

I like how just days ago @anatta was telling us with great excitement how desperate China is to ink a deal. Now it’s clear that they are not even bothering to pick up the phone. China has been very clear, Trump de-escalates first then maybe they’ll talk. Meanwhile they are inking details left and right. And Donald? He claims to have 200 deals “done” but can’t point to one.

200 deals and only 195(ish) countries. He must be counting those penguin habitats still.

 

[jpn]

And yet, it's China that has thousands of factories shutting down, tens of thousands of workers out of a job and thousands protesting publicly. And it'll only get worse for them.
Who's losing?

The nation that began this idiocy for no defensible reason.

 

[Pound4abrown]

Ya'll don't get it.
He's playing 10D chess ya'll

**ghostwritten by Tony Schwartz

 

[Pound4abrown]

Trump's not a political hack who thinks winning and saving face is everything. Trump, the master of 'the art of the deal' knows when to be firm and and when to be diplomatic and gentle. These talks are framed so that both sides can claim victory and show that they're both actively working on the problem. This important meeting is just step one in reaching a final resolution.

You do know your stellar argument about his "art of the deal" would be much more biting, if he had actually written the ****ing book, right?
You bought a con. You are buying a con. You will forever be conned. If the Kool-Aid ever gets bitter, spit it out!

 

[eohrnberger]

You have it backwards.

Specific to what I posted, I don't.

China can wait it out. They don't have to respond to public pressure like the U.S. does. Look how they handled Covid. That never would have been tolerated in a democracy.

On this point we have agreement.

China is in the driver's seat, not Trump.

This has nothing to do with what I posted, as I made no statement about 'who's in the driver's seat'.

 

[ElChupacabra]

The meeting is billed as a de-escalation meeting. I suspect the Chinese position will be that American tariffs must be dropped before they talk trade and I don't think they will budge until that happens. The talks will take forever and ever and very little change.

There's the important part of the saving face dynamic for both as well, and that will be interesting to see play out. The problem with the way this has been laid out is the tariffs are quite broad, so you have to get into the weeds of which make sense and which don't. Both countries have a lot to lose here, so I'm sure they're eager to sort things out. The main difference I see is China's accelerating their diversification of trading partners, because the lesson from the last time was to do exactly that to avoid unstable US administrations.

 

[tharock220]

Every time the Chinese government back down a little more, whether it's tariff exemptions, not actually banning rare Earth exports, having Lan Fo'an repeatedly call Scott Bessent , the leftoids response is "BUT THEY'RE STILL NOT OFFICALLY NEGOTIATING!!!!"

Well now they are.