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Top generals testify that Trump's deal with the Taliban hurt morale among Afghan forces and 'negatively' affected their performance

Metric Mouse said:
Why did we need leverage? We were leaving. Which we did. No need for leverage when we got what we wanted from them, no more American deaths and we leave the country.
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The right was asking why didn't Biden talk to the Taliban and re do the so called peace treaty
well when Trump gave the Taliban everything they wanted , everything they have been fighting for and we have been fighting against for 20 years. Biden didn't have any leverage , nothing , yes NOTHING at all to bargain with.
The right complains Biden didn't talk to the Taliban and redo the treaty but they don't seem to know he had nothing to deal with thanks to Trump
have a nice afternoon
 
Carl Young said:
You clearly have never read the agreement, the conditions, and the requirements. Why do you feel qualified to comment?
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SEVERAL TIMES
It looks like some people on here like you haven't
I have posted it several times so you could
and IF you had read it you would see one of the first things Trump did was force the Afghan Gov. to release 5000 Taliban parishioners from their jails
one who became one of the TOP Taliban leaders
then he didn't even talk to the Afghan Gov. he just went a head and gave them a voice in the Gov. ( as one of Trumps people in the state dept said it was CONTROLLING interest in the Gov and was going to force the Afghan gov out and let the Taliban take over and they did..)
and on top of it they were suppose to do this and that but Trump already gave them everything they wanted ,,everything they have been fighting for , and we had been fighting against for 20 years , so when they didn't do what they said they would we had NO recourse
and Here it is again

Part one Trump gives them almost everything they wanted and in doing so left us with no recourse if they didn't do what they said they would and as we all know they didn't
part two is where a lot of what the Taliban was suppose to do is set out ( and they didn't do it )
and part three gave them recognition and basically part of the gov. and gave the Taliban AID
have a nice day
 
Plasmaball said:
Yeah no... next you'll tell me tonight's lotto numbers.

In the context of what could of happened the same result could of happened. They were not waiting on Biden to get into office to attack. They were waiting for a weak point. Which would of happened regardless.

You think killing 100 of these isisk is gonna matter? They ****ing are in it for the long hall.
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I think dropping the MOAB for the only time we used it made a statement. Speaking objectively, partisanship aside, do you believe the Taliban would’ve attacked us If Trump stayed past the time agreement to evacuate people? I’m not saying Trump wasn’t an ass, but I do think our enemies feared what he might do if they attacked our citizens. He had no problem with killing Islamic Extremist leaders. I honestly think Biden appears weak. JMHO
 
Metric Mouse said:
Of course not. That would be silly. But we could have removed them, and civilians, without all the death and horror. Would have been easy before letting the Taliban walk into Kabul.
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You need to read the " agreement "
there were a lot of things the Taliban was suppose to do and didn't and seeing Trump already gave the Taliban everything we had no recourse to try and force them to keep their word
here is the " agreement "
part one basically is what we were going to do including the release of the 5000 prisoners
part two was what the Taliban was suppose to do ( and didn't and we had no recourse to make them keep their word )
Have a nice day
 
Yes, if truth be told, President Trump made a BIG mistake in letting out 5,000 Taliban members.

Really stupid decision.

No wonder the Afghan army melted away recently.

But the current Administration was disingenuous in claiming that it had to follow through on President Trump's promise to leave by a certain date. What nonsense!

Since when do Dems care about honoring President Trump's promises?

This administration has already overturned lots of his policies (the border mess with tens of thousands of Haitian ladies and gentlemen now inside the country and more now on their way from Colombia is just one example).

So this Administration could have just said: We are indeed leaving, but we will be leaving on our terms. And if the Taliban do not like it, tough buns!
 
Tbird19482 said:
Yes that is a VERY good question
What Leverage?
Trump had already given the Taliban EVERYTHING they wanted , everything they had been fighting for and we were fighting against for 20 years and with AID to come in the future for them on top of it.
Trump didn't leave Biden a thing he could have used as leverage
Have a nice night
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Your right in a way. Trump, was himself, THE leverage. So, it was “the American voters“, that left the U.S. without leverage. Trump demonstrated the consequences of killing Americans by killing those responsible. THAT, is leverage. The US military, is leverage.
 
mrjurrs said:
Whatever Americans stayed in Afghanistan stayed by choice or by foolishness. They were all contacted by the government prior to August.
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That is incorrect on two fronts. We contacted as many as we could find phone numbers for, and many were prevented from leaving by the Taliban.
 
cpwill said:
That is incorrect on two fronts. We contacted as many as we could find phone numbers for, and many were prevented from leaving by the Taliban.
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Prevented from leaving before August? I don't think so.
 
TheParser said:
...

But the current Administration was disingenuous in claiming that it had to follow through on President Trump's promise to leave by a certain date. What nonsense!

Since when do Dems care about honoring President Trump's promises?
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Edit mine for emphasis

You oversimplify things. The US-Taliban agreement did reduce the level of violence between the US troops and the Taliban. So, while Biden was not obligated to follow Trump's path, he was still obligated to do the best he could to minimize the Taliban threat against the US troops It is from this perspective that Biden was "forced" to accept. certain.commitments that were made by the previous administration.

If Biden had discarded everything and started doing things copposite of the established trend, he was risking the revival of violence between the Taliban and the US forces which. could have produced way more casualties that the ones that were finally inflicted. And notice by the way, that the Taliban honored the agreement of at least refraining from attacking the US forces when they were most valuable during the last days of their presence in Afghanistan. The US casualties came as a result of ISIS activity.
 
mrjurrs said:
Prevented from leaving before August? I don't think so.
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Then you might benefit from learning more about the status of Ring Road over the summer.

The argument from the Administration or it's defenders that "American citizens shouldn't have been stupid enough to believe that we either knew what we were talking about, or that we were telling them the truth." isn't exactly compelling. That line may work when it's a demagogic bomb-thrower in court arguing they aren't guilty of defamation "because no reasonable person would take what they were saying as facts", but, it's horrifically bad governance

If they believed the President when he told them that

A) the withdrawal date was September 11
B) the Afghan Army had a better than even chance against the Taliban
C) and regardless of what happened, there was definitely not going to be a rapid collapse followed by a Saigon moment.

...and then, the Taliban went from owning NO provincial capitals to overruning the entire country in about two weeks.

Then that ultimately rests on POTUS. Blaming Sarah, who decided to spend a gap year teaching little girls to read in Mazar I Sharif,for not having an intelligence apparatus better than the President isn't exactly convincing.
 
cpwill said:
Then you might benefit from learning more about the status of Ring Road over the summer.

The argument from the Administration or it's defenders that "American citizens shouldn't have been stupid enough to believe that we either knew what we were talking about, or that we were telling them the truth." isn't exactly compelling. That line may work when it's a demagogic bomb-thrower in court arguing they aren't guilty of defamation "because no reasonable person would take what they were saying as facts", but, it's horrifically bad governance

If they believed the President when he told them that

A) the withdrawal date was September 11
B) the Afghan Army had a better than even chance against the Taliban
C) and regardless of what happened, there was definitely not going to be a rapid collapse followed by a Saigon moment.

...and then, the Taliban went from owning NO provincial capitals to overruning the entire country in about two weeks.

Then that ultimately rests on POTUS. Blaming Sarah, who decided to spend a gap year teaching little girls to read in Mazar I Sharif,for not having an intelligence apparatus better than the President isn't exactly convincing.
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The withdrawal date was originally by 9.11, it was never on 9.11. When the Taliban pointed out that they would restart offensive operations on 9.1, the date was moved up. Do you think any air transports would have safely flown out of Kabul in September? I don't.

Apparently you believe President Biden has the ability to see the future, because zero of his advisors said 11 days. Zero.
 
mrjurrs said:
The withdrawal date was originally by 9.11, it was never on 9.11. When the Taliban pointed out that they would restart offensive operations on 9.1, the date was moved up. Do you think any air transports would have safely flown out of Kabul in September? I don't.

Apparently you believe President Biden has the ability to see the future, because zero of his advisors said 11 days. Zero.
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I'm not saying Biden has the ability to see the future, though I do know he was warned of this scenario. I'm saying that giving him a pass on how fast this went down, but not giving Americans who believed what he was saying a similar pass is wrong and dumb.

If a hurricane was coming up the east coast, and the government put out that it was going to make landfall in north carolina, but then it turned and landed in Georgia, would ANYONE be out there saying "well, those folks in Georgia should have known it was coming - clearly they wanted to get caught by surprise by a hurricane"?

Of course not. But people make that argument here because the Americans Biden abandoned are inconvenient for the Tribe :(.
 
cpwill said:
I'm not saying Biden has the ability to see the future, though I do know he was warned of this scenario. I'm saying that giving him a pass on how fast this went down, but not giving Americans who believed what he was saying a similar pass is wrong and dumb.

If a hurricane was coming up the east coast, and the government put out that it was going to make landfall in north carolina, but then it turned and landed in Georgia, would ANYONE be out there saying "well, those folks in Georgia should have known it was coming - clearly they wanted to get caught by surprise by a hurricane"?

Of course not. But people make that argument here because the Americans Biden abandoned are inconvenient for the Tribe :(.
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Hurricanes occur, but comparing them to a war zone is apples and skyscrapers. All those Americans, and many of them are dual citizenship that were never going to leave Afghanistan, knew they were in a war zone. Do you blame Biden for unvaccinated Americans dying? After all, he warned them...

Can you describe the masses of Americans left behind with any specificity? I suggest that most of them were never going to leave, and that those left behind is a much smaller number than the Presidents foes are crying about.
 
Tbird19482 said:
The right was asking why didn't Biden talk to the Taliban and re do the so called peace treaty
well when Trump gave the Taliban everything they wanted , everything they have been fighting for and we have been fighting against for 20 years. Biden didn't have any leverage , nothing , yes NOTHING at all to bargain with.
The right complains Biden didn't talk to the Taliban and redo the treaty but they don't seem to know he had nothing to deal with thanks to Trump
have a nice afternoon
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You are kidding right. No way you are serious.

Biden had all the leverage. All he had to say was do as we ask or we are not leaving as planned and we will bomb the shit out of you. What was the Taliban going to say. No you are not?
 
mrjurrs said:
What did I say that was false?
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I am not saying you told a mis-truth.
I am suggesting you cannot speak for all Americans who are still in Afghanistan.
Are you suggesting they can all leave whenever they want.?
 
braindrain said:
You are kidding right. No way you are serious.

Biden had all the leverage. All he had to say was do as we ask or we are not leaving as planned and we will bomb the shit out of you. What was the Taliban going to say. No you are not?
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I concur with your conclusion, and a question to all who can explain this to me:

If American forces can remain in Syria and Iraq to the tune of 1700 and 2000 respectively, then how would Americans be prevented from staying in Afghanistan until Americans and Afghans with SIVs were permitted to leave? Why the disastrous retreat from Kabul? Who was going to force us to leave Afghanistan until we were ready?
Are Americans just to naive to realize Biden's decision was based on the 20th anniversary of 9/11?

Biden got the troops out before American citizens and authorized Afghans were permitted to leave.
How does that make any sense? Was that all Trump's fault or a stupid Biden decision - in contrast with the military leadership's recommendations?
 
jaypatriot said:
I am not saying you told a mis-truth.
I am suggesting you cannot speak for all Americans who are still in Afghanistan.
Are you suggesting they can all leave whenever they want.?
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No, I'm saying they all had the opportunity to leave before 8.31.21. I would suggest that most of the Americans that are still in Afghanistan are dual citizenship that had no intention of leaving. Please let me know who these masses of Americans are, and if you can find why they didn't leave, so much the better.
 
mrjurrs said:
No, I'm saying they all had the opportunity to leave before 8.31.21. I would suggest that most of the Americans that are still in Afghanistan are dual citizenship that had no intention of leaving. Please let me know who these masses of Americans are, and if you can find why they didn't leave, so much the better.
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I'll get right on it. I'll call the Secy of State, Winkin Blinkin, and get a total of all Americans left there and see who wants to stay. When I get a call back I'll let you know. Give me your home number.
 
jgarden47 said:
-allegation(s)

- assumption(s)

- wasted space

"Weasel" words to avoid admitting that "Lostin Thought" is either unable and/or unwilling to invest the time and effort needed to mount a serious defense!

In marked contrast with "Lostin Thought," I actually took the time and effort to present a comprehensive overview of the Trump Administration's failed policies in Afghanistan!
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That's not comprehensive. You made claims and only showed things that could not bridge the gap between allegation and fact.

Argue all you like, but when you can't supply proof for your own claims. All we have to look at here is that all of this was done on Biden's watch, and it was nowhere in Trump's plan for Afghanistan. Biden even broke with the set schedule. So he has no one else to blame, but himself.
 
mrdeltoid said:
Your right in a way. Trump, was himself, THE leverage. So, it was “the American voters“, that left the U.S. without leverage. Trump demonstrated the consequences of killing Americans by killing those responsible. THAT, is leverage. The US military, is leverage.
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I have no idea where you got this BS from
Trump gave the Taliban EVERYTHING they wanted way before he left office and when they didn't hold up to their word he nor anybody else had any thing to hold over their heads to get them to do what they said they would
and he say it and finally figured out he couldn't do anything to make them do what they said they would and he left Biden with the mess
Have a nice night
 
LostinThought said:
I don't see your evidence for Trump negotiating to hand over Afghanistan to the Taliban.
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and you apparently haven't read Trumps agreement
Here it is
it is all in there
How he got the Afghan gov. to release the 5000 prisoners.
( one who became one of the top Taliban people and is now one of their top gov. officials )
how we were going to withdraw
How they were going to negotiate with the Taliban to be part of the Afghan gov
( even one of Trumps people in the state dept. said he was giving them control of the Afghan gov
and in fact he did )
Have a nice night
 
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LostinThought said:
That's not comprehensive. You made claims and only showed things that could not bridge the gap between allegation and fact.

Argue all you like, but when you can't supply proof for your own claims. All we have to look at here is that all of this was done on Biden's watch, and it was nowhere in Trump's plan for Afghanistan. Biden even broke with the set schedule. So he has no one else to blame, but himself.
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The "I'M RIGHT BECAUSE I SAY SO" argument!
 
Tbird19482 said:
and you apparently haven't read Trumps agreement
Here it is
it is all in there
How he got the Afghan gov. to release the 5000 prisoners.
( one who became one of the top Taliban people and is now one of their top gov. officials )
how we were going to withdraw
How they were going to negotiate with the Taliban to be part of the Afghan gov
( even one of Trumps people in the state dept. said he was giving them control of the Afghan gov
and in fact he did )
Have a nice night
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So aside from supplying evidence of Trump trying to work towards peaceful relations "as is stated in the document". I don't see any proof to the claim that he was "handing anything over to the Taliban" save for a safe release of prisoners. And then you throw in an anonymous opinion.

None of this supports the previous claims.
 
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