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Too many job seekers can't do basic math

I once had to lock up cans of sprayglue because an employee kept insisting that the water based glue that I insist on didn't work, so he would constantly grab a can of sprayglue out of our chemical cabinet. The sprayglue just get's everywhere and makes a huge mess, and it also get's inhaled everytime you use it (doesn't get you high though). I just can't see making a huge mess out of my shop, and filling up anyones lungs with gule. Five years later, I still have all but one of those same cans of sprayglue, and use the waterbased glue everyday.

True. But learning how to be a part of a team and take direction from ones superiors is also a skill that could be learned in school. Well, in a good school system that actually prepares people to achieve economic success in our country... This exact issue you describe above has been responsible for at least a few job losses that I'm aware of, and no doubt has reduced their raise/advancement prospects. I have zero tolerance for it. But it's not age-related, I have some young applicants who do the same, and a lot of older ones who never exhibit that behavior.
 
True. But learning how to be a part of a team and take direction from ones superiors is also a skill that could be learned in school. Well, in a good school system that actually prepares people to achieve economic success in our country... This exact issue you describe above has been responsible for at least a few job losses that I'm aware of, and no doubt has reduced their raise/advancement prospects. I have zero tolerance for it. But it's not age-related, I have some young applicants who do the same, and a lot of older ones who never exhibit that behavior.

I would actually like to see a course in leadership taught in school.

In the military we once did this really odd obstacle course thing where we were divided up into small groups, and everyone in the group would become the leader of that group for that one obstacle . They were the types of things where it took several people to overcome it, and people with different talents and strengths and abilities. I learned really quickly that one can't be a good leader if he doesn't also have following skills. The team leaders who failed to lead their team to overcoming the obstacle were often the ones who wouldn't listen to others in their group. When it was my turn to be the leader, I discovered that many of the suggestions being made by other team members were better than my own ideas, and all I really had to do was to make the final decision on how to tackle the obstacle - from the list of ideas by others in the group. It was a slam dunk.

I also learned the importance of knowing people in your team very well and on a personal level. At one point in one of the challenges one of my team members was reaching out to grab a red handle, and we had been specifically told that everything that was painted red was contaminated and that if anyone touch anything that was red the entire team would be disqualified from that particular obstacal challenge. I was really mad at the guy for reaching out to grab that red handle, and didn't understand why he would do such a stupid thing. Thats when I discovered that the guy was colorblind. If only I had known that before, known more about him on a personal level, I would have known to be guiding him away from the "contamination" before he was reaching for it.

Later, after returning from active duty and participating in a reserve unit, it didn't take me long to realize that the "leaders" who had no authority in their civilian lives weren't really leaders, they were tyrants. There is also a difference between leaders and managers. There are people who are great managers but terrible leaders, and visa versa.

Of course that has nothing to do with my story about the sprayglue, I just like telling stories.
 
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If the applicants were all fresh out of high school, I could see this as an issue. If the applicants have been out of school a decade or more, not so much. A lot probably just need a refresher. STEM-H jobs are going to be the only way forward for us, but standardized curriculum's that do not allow teachers time to make sure everyone is up to speed before moving forward to the next lesson will just leave struggling students further and further behind.

You only forget knowledge you don't use much. You should try using math in your daily life, because it's quite useful. One of the stupidest questions I've heard is people asking "when am I going to need this?" when talking about a math lesson.

Here's a good probability lesson applied to investing. Suppose I offered you an investment opportunity with 1.01% increase or 1% decrease with 50/50 odds on any day. Most people look at that and think it's worth it since the increase is a higher percentage than the decrease. It is true that how much you can gain in one day is more than what you can lose. However, if you invested x dollars then the expected value after n days is x * (1.0101)^(n/2) * (0.99)^(n/2) = x * (0.999999)^(n/2) < x. Therefore, you see that the expected change over one day can be positive while the expected value over time is a loss.
 
One of the stupidest questions I've heard is people asking "when am I going to need this?" when talking about a math lesson.

thats not a stupid question at all. It's quite logical and rational. People want to know why they need to learn something.

But you make a good point that maybe part of our problem is that we don't teach "why". maybe that should be on the standard curriculum. Maybe before each new topic, every student should be presented with a real life problem, just like you presented, before having the lesson that would result in being able to solve that problem. If students realized what they weren't able to accomplish before learning how to accomplish it, the knowledge that they don't have the knowledge to be able to solve that problem could be a motivator in figuring out how to solve that problem.

I've mentioned before that I have been trying to learn a foriegn language on my on for a while. While going through this process, I have been trying to figure out how I could learn it faster, and what the logical order is for learning languages. One of the things that I wish was available, was a audio or video track of a conversation in that language, that included the words phrases and expressions that I would be learning in a particular set of lessons. It would be very motivating to hear that recording first, and then to be told that "once you complete this next section you will be able to understand that recording". I mean that would be just too cool - to first hear something that sounds like garbeldigook, and then a few weeks later to listen to it again, and actually be able to understand it.

I think you are on to something.
 
thats not a stupid question at all. It's quite logical and rational. People want to know why they need to learn something.

But you make a good point that maybe part of our problem is that we don't teach "why". maybe that should be on the standard curriculum. Maybe before each new topic, every student should be presented with a real life problem, just like you presented, before having the lesson that would result in being able to solve that problem. If students realized what they weren't able to accomplish before learning how to accomplish it, the knowledge that they don't have the knowledge to be able to solve that problem could be a motivator in figuring out how to solve that problem.

I've mentioned before that I have been trying to learn a foriegn language on my on for a while. While going through this process, I have been trying to figure out how I could learn it faster, and what the logical order is for learning languages. One of the things that I wish was available, was a audio or video track of a conversation in that language, that included the words phrases and expressions that I would be learning in a particular set of lessons. It would be very motivating to hear that recording first, and then to be told that "once you complete this next section you will be able to understand that recording". I mean that would be just too cool - to first hear something that sounds like garbeldigook, and then a few weeks later to listen to it again, and actually be able to understand it.

I think you are on to something.

I guess since mathematics is considered the universal language, I expect people to recognize applications of the math they've learned as easily as someone can recognize languages they speak, especially elementary mathematics. Indeed, how well you can recognize applications signifies whether you truly understand the mathematics or you're just capable of remembering and following a short list of instructions.
 
Corporations want our education system to turn everyone into a bunch of math geeks who know nothing about evolution.
 
thats not a stupid question at all. It's quite logical and rational. People want to know why they need to learn something.

But you make a good point that maybe part of our problem is that we don't teach "why". maybe that should be on the standard curriculum. Maybe before each new topic, every student should be presented with a real life problem, just like you presented, before having the lesson that would result in being able to solve that problem. If students realized what they weren't able to accomplish before learning how to accomplish it, the knowledge that they don't have the knowledge to be able to solve that problem could be a motivator in figuring out how to solve that problem.

I've mentioned before that I have been trying to learn a foriegn language on my on for a while. While going through this process, I have been trying to figure out how I could learn it faster, and what the logical order is for learning languages. One of the things that I wish was available, was a audio or video track of a conversation in that language, that included the words phrases and expressions that I would be learning in a particular set of lessons. It would be very motivating to hear that recording first, and then to be told that "once you complete this next section you will be able to understand that recording". I mean that would be just too cool - to first hear something that sounds like garbeldigook, and then a few weeks later to listen to it again, and actually be able to understand it.

I think you are on to something.
Ever think about switching language tracks on your movies then using subtitles after a couple of weeks? :shrug:
 
Ever think about switching language tracks on your movies then using subtitles after a couple of weeks? :shrug:

I have, but I really don't know how to do that fancy stuff. I guess I am just becoming an old fuddy duddy.

But I do make a point to watch a couple hours of spanish tv each week. I started out watching sitcoms, but found that the actors tend to be over dramatic and that makes it hard for me to understand them. I switched to watching spanish news, and I can comprehend what they are saying much better as they are paid to be very clear and not dramatic. I also watch some spanish documentaries, they generally speak as clearly as news casters, and they hold my attention better.

My goal is to one day be able to understand the spanish in movies and sitcoms, but if I cant understand spanish speakers who are intentially trying to be clear and have good pronuciation, I certainly can't understand more natural speach.

At this point, I have a pretty good understanding of grammer, sentence structure, and pronuciation, I just need to have a larger vocabulary. I have read that in almost every language, there are only about 2500 really commonly used words, but by the time that you add all the variations of those words, conjugations, tenses, and alternative words, that 2500 word list swells to around 10,000 bare minimum to be semi-fluent. Most native speakers have an active vocabulary of around 25,000 words (including variations), and can comprehend around 40,000 words.

I think that I am maybe at around 1000 words instant recall, and can comprehend maybe another 1500 (like I might not be able to think of the word quickly enough to use it in a natural conversation, but I can understand it if I see it written, or can understand it in speech if the speech is slower than normal conversational speed).

Spanish speakers often tend to run words together, just like speakers of every language do, but I think they do it more. Some spanish words are actually intentionally ran together to form one word out of two. In natural speech comprehension, just figuring out where one word ends and the next begins can be a challenge, and like you suggested I think the only way to be able to do that is by listening to natural speech - "natural" as like in real life situations as opposed to something in an academic language course.

Then there are zillions of spanish expressions, and these vary by region. When litterally translated to english, they are often nonsensical, thus they just have to be memorized as phrases and expressions. After I get my vocab to maybe double what it is, I think that concentrating on these expressions and phrases may be the next logical step.

I have discovered that there is not a single course or program or language learning tool that really can take someone from zero knowledge to even modest fluency. Not Pimsleur, not Fluenze, not Rossetta Stone (which I personally think is horrible) and not the Visual Link program which I purchased. You could even go through all of these programs, and still not be even close to proficient. Some of them do a great job with sentence structure and grammer, and a decent job with maybe the most commonly used thousand words or so, but not nearly enough active listening and responding, and not nearly enough vocabulary.

I have a couple who are frequent customers of mine, both speak very good English and Spanish. She is a native spanish speaker and is from Hondurus, so I assumed that he was also a native spanish speaker. I once asked him where he was from, he told me "Indianapolis", I said, "no, I mean origionally", he said "Indianapolis". I asked him where his parents were from, he said "indianapolis". Turns out, he is a native english speaker and didn't learn spanish until he was in high school. He said that when he was in the military he got frequently compliments on how good his english was, when actually they should have been complementing his spanish.
 
Corporations want our education system to turn everyone into a bunch of math geeks who know nothing about evolution.

Considering none of us are demanding evolution products from the evolution industry, I think its appropriate.

The amount of math that went into just your posting that, between the infrastructure, the site, the avatar, etc., boggles the mind. The amount of evolution required to make such a post in spite of that...not enough!
 
my wife is a teacher in a project lift/bill & melinda gates funded elementary school
the decision was made to eliminate the IT teacher in future years
the staff teachers - all of them - will be expected to assume the role of that teacher who was trained and certified to teach technology
but they are now recruiting dance teachers
any wonder why our kids are going to become less and less competitive internationally in a world where STEM emphasis is essential to career success
 
my wife is a teacher in a project lift/bill & melinda gates funded elementary school
the decision was made to eliminate the IT teacher in future years
the staff teachers - all of them - will be expected to assume the role of that teacher who was trained and certified to teach technology
but they are now recruiting dance teachers
any wonder why our kids are going to become less and less competitive internationally in a world where STEM emphasis is essential to career success

I don't know what the particular situation there is, but do elementary schools really need an IT teacher? Are they really teaching advanced networking or computer programming to elementary school students these days? And the arts are important in school, even if all it does is to keep kids liking school (thus keeping them in school).

We all seem to agree that STEM subjects are the most important, and that most STEM jobs pay over the median income, but there are also quite a few STEM jobs that I have seen listed as having very high unemployment rates - right up there with psychology majors. Dancers can make good money, and there seems to be no lack of demand for strippers and pole dancers.

Really, our most well paid jobs aren't always in STEM careers. Top corporate executives come from a wide variety of academic backgrounds and CEO's are valued for being generalist, not techno-geeks. While the average engineer may make double or triple the median wage, Fortune 500 CEO can expect to make upwards of 500 times the median wage.

If I was wanting a high level leadership position as a career goal, and if I had a lot drive and was very much money motivated, I would want to have a very diverse educational background. Maybe an associates degree or two in a tech field, a bachelors in a social science with a major in a different social science, an MBA plus a law degree. Someone who was very driven to have a "big" career making big bucks might be well advised to have a diverse educational background with subjects in communications, some tech classes, history, the arts, people skill classes, business and law.
 
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I don't know what the particular situation there is, but do elementary schools really need an IT teacher? Are they really teaching advanced networking or computer programming to elementary school students these days? And the arts are important in school, even if all it does is to keep kids liking school (thus keeping them in school).

We all seem to agree that STEM subjects are the most important, and that most STEM jobs pay over the median income, but there are also quite a few STEM jobs that I have seen listed as having very high unemployment rates - right up there with psychology majors. Dancers can make good money, and there seems to be no lack of demand for strippers and pole dancers.

Really, our most well paid jobs aren't always in STEM careers. Top corporate executives come from a wide variety of academic backgrounds and CEO's are valued for being generalist, not techno-geeks. While the average engineer may make double or triple the median wage, Fortune 500 CEO can expect to make upwards of 500 times the median wage.

If I was wanting a high level leadership position as a career goal, and if I had a lot drive and was very much money motivated, I would want to have a very diverse educational background. Maybe an associates degree or two in a tech field, a bachelors in a social science with a major in a different social science, an MBA plus a law degree. Someone who was very driven to have a "big" career making big bucks might be well advised to have a diverse educational background with subjects in communications, some tech classes, history, the arts, people skill classes, business and law.

the stated purpose of the project lift program includes greater access to technology
this change reduces the students' access to technology
while the tech lab will remain available to them, someone who can teach not only how, but why various technologies work will be lost to them
the kids have limited access to computers/internet in their homes. they will be competing for jobs in a few years, and will be handicapped by their remaining victims of the digital divide. the technology gap - and the learning gap - will not be closed with such abandonment of the principles which were used to justify the additional funding for these project lift schools
and having a strong background in technologies/STEM subjects does not deprive any student of the opportunity of success in a non-STEM career. in many instances, it will likely enhance their prospects. but the converse is not true. maintaining the digital divide is certain to deprive these students of the opportunity for success in STEM driven careers only because they were not allowed to remain academically competitive, despite their aptitude
 
Perhaps job seekers could benefit from transcranial random noise stimulation (TRNS). It improves mental arithmetic as well as other cognitive functions. You go, have a seat at a special place, they put things on your head, it insonates your brain, you stand up smarter.

References:

Snowball, A., Tachtsidis, I., Popescu, T., Thompson, J., Delazer, M., ... Kadosh, R. C. (2013). Long-term enhancement of brain function and cognition using cognitive training and brain stimulation. Current Biology, DOI: 10.1016/j.cub.2013.04.045

Fast and painless way to better mental arithmetic? Yes, there might actually be a way
 
I can do sin(x) + 2 = 3 for 0° < x < 360°, but that is apparently more important then 2+2.

Sure America's education system makes us well rounded, but in the wrong areas.

Well, you would require the ability to figure out 3-2 and also understand inverse functions so I'd say knowing how to solve a trigonometric equation usually implies some background in basic arithmetic and algebra.
 
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