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Too late to opt-out: Supreme Court ultimately can't save the religious right's futile book bans

j brown's body

"A Soros-backed animal"
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"Can you treat someone with "love, kindness, and respect" while simultaneously insisting their identity is so poisonous that it cannot be acknowledged?

The right's lawyer argued that censoring these books wasn't about disrespecting queer people, but protecting "children's innocence." It's a nonsense argument, however, as it assumes there's a "respectful" way to erase people. But it was also quite silly, as if hiding these books would shield children from the knowledge that LGBTQ identities exist. (An unspoken corrollary is the false view they can prevent children from growing up queer.) The case illustrates the animating futility at the heart of the MAGA movement: they will never manifest their dream of a past "great" America, when "queer" wasn't a thing. Such a period never existed, but especially not in an era when queer people are visible in pop culture, the internet, and the general community. The government can force teachers not to say "gay" in school, but kids are going to hear about it everywhere else.

During arguments, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson made this point most clearly, asking the plaintiffs' lawyers how far this parental right to "opt out" should go. She asked if a gay teacher would be allowed to have a wedding photo on her desk? Or if a student group put up "love is love" posters in the hallway? Or if a trans teacher insisted that the students use their preferred name and pronouns? On this last point, the conservative lawyer insisted the teacher has no right to tell students how to address them. This answer gave the game away. It's standard practice for teachers to dictate how students address them: First name or last name? Miss or Mrs? Only trans people, in this lawyer's determination, don't deserve this basic respect from students.

...The irony here is that, due to the internet, kids inevitably find adult materials on their own. Having an education in sexuality, sexual identity, and human diversity before they see that stuff — so they can distinguish fact from fantasy — is the only true way to protect children. Books like "Pride Puppy" prevent the premature sexualization of kids, by answering questions about queer identity in age-appropriate ways. If adults don't answer children's curiosity, kids go looking on their own. Left to their own devices and a search engine, children find materials they're not mature enough to handle."

Link

Children aren't stupid. They see LGBTQ people in the world. They know they exist, or will know. It's damaging to them to deprive them of the opportunity to see them as fully realized human beings.
 
"Can you treat someone with "love, kindness, and respect" while simultaneously insisting their identity is so poisonous that it cannot be acknowledged?

The right's lawyer argued that censoring these books wasn't about disrespecting queer people, but protecting "children's innocence." It's a nonsense argument, however, as it assumes there's a "respectful" way to erase people. But it was also quite silly, as if hiding these books would shield children from the knowledge that LGBTQ identities exist. (An unspoken corrollary is the false view they can prevent children from growing up queer.) The case illustrates the animating futility at the heart of the MAGA movement: they will never manifest their dream of a past "great" America, when "queer" wasn't a thing. Such a period never existed, but especially not in an era when queer people are visible in pop culture, the internet, and the general community. The government can force teachers not to say "gay" in school, but kids are going to hear about it everywhere else.

During arguments, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson made this point most clearly, asking the plaintiffs' lawyers how far this parental right to "opt out" should go. She asked if a gay teacher would be allowed to have a wedding photo on her desk? Or if a student group put up "love is love" posters in the hallway? Or if a trans teacher insisted that the students use their preferred name and pronouns? On this last point, the conservative lawyer insisted the teacher has no right to tell students how to address them. This answer gave the game away. It's standard practice for teachers to dictate how students address them: First name or last name? Miss or Mrs? Only trans people, in this lawyer's determination, don't deserve this basic respect from students.


...The irony here is that, due to the internet, kids inevitably find adult materials on their own. Having an education in sexuality, sexual identity, and human diversity before they see that stuff — so they can distinguish fact from fantasy — is the only true way to protect children. Books like "Pride Puppy" prevent the premature sexualization of kids, by answering questions about queer identity in age-appropriate ways. If adults don't answer children's curiosity, kids go looking on their own. Left to their own devices and a search engine, children find materials they're not mature enough to handle."

Link

Children aren't stupid. They see LGBTQ people in the world. They know they exist, or will know. It's damaging to them to deprive them of the opportunity to see them as fully realized human beings.

Children have the right to age-appropriate, pro-LGBTQ education. It is harmful not just to LGBTQ kids but to heteronormative kids to deprive them of this.
 
"Can you treat someone with "love, kindness, and respect" while simultaneously insisting their identity is so poisonous that it cannot be acknowledged?

The right's lawyer argued that censoring these books wasn't about disrespecting queer people, but protecting "children's innocence." It's a nonsense argument, however, as it assumes there's a "respectful" way to erase people. But it was also quite silly, as if hiding these books would shield children from the knowledge that LGBTQ identities exist. (An unspoken corrollary is the false view they can prevent children from growing up queer.) The case illustrates the animating futility at the heart of the MAGA movement: they will never manifest their dream of a past "great" America, when "queer" wasn't a thing. Such a period never existed, but especially not in an era when queer people are visible in pop culture, the internet, and the general community. The government can force teachers not to say "gay" in school, but kids are going to hear about it everywhere else.

During arguments, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson made this point most clearly, asking the plaintiffs' lawyers how far this parental right to "opt out" should go. She asked if a gay teacher would be allowed to have a wedding photo on her desk? Or if a student group put up "love is love" posters in the hallway? Or if a trans teacher insisted that the students use their preferred name and pronouns? On this last point, the conservative lawyer insisted the teacher has no right to tell students how to address them. This answer gave the game away. It's standard practice for teachers to dictate how students address them: First name or last name? Miss or Mrs? Only trans people, in this lawyer's determination, don't deserve this basic respect from students.


...The irony here is that, due to the internet, kids inevitably find adult materials on their own. Having an education in sexuality, sexual identity, and human diversity before they see that stuff — so they can distinguish fact from fantasy — is the only true way to protect children. Books like "Pride Puppy" prevent the premature sexualization of kids, by answering questions about queer identity in age-appropriate ways. If adults don't answer children's curiosity, kids go looking on their own. Left to their own devices and a search engine, children find materials they're not mature enough to handle."

Link

Children aren't stupid. They see LGBTQ people in the world. They know they exist, or will know. It's damaging to them to deprive them of the opportunity to see them as fully realized human beings.
Human beings with some serious issues. All the shots, hormones and surgeries don't make biological men into women or the other way around either. Just as painting your face black/brown doesn't make you African or any other black American or hispanic or whatever.
 
Can anyone here name any so-called "banned" book that I can't buy online and have delivered to my home within 3 days?
 
"Can you treat someone with "love, kindness, and respect" while simultaneously insisting their identity is so poisonous that it cannot be acknowledged?

The right's lawyer argued that censoring these books wasn't about disrespecting queer people, but protecting "children's innocence." It's a nonsense argument, however, as it assumes there's a "respectful" way to erase people. But it was also quite silly, as if hiding these books would shield children from the knowledge that LGBTQ identities exist. (An unspoken corrollary is the false view they can prevent children from growing up queer.) The case illustrates the animating futility at the heart of the MAGA movement: they will never manifest their dream of a past "great" America, when "queer" wasn't a thing. Such a period never existed, but especially not in an era when queer people are visible in pop culture, the internet, and the general community. The government can force teachers not to say "gay" in school, but kids are going to hear about it everywhere else.

During arguments, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson made this point most clearly, asking the plaintiffs' lawyers how far this parental right to "opt out" should go. She asked if a gay teacher would be allowed to have a wedding photo on her desk? Or if a student group put up "love is love" posters in the hallway? Or if a trans teacher insisted that the students use their preferred name and pronouns? On this last point, the conservative lawyer insisted the teacher has no right to tell students how to address them. This answer gave the game away. It's standard practice for teachers to dictate how students address them: First name or last name? Miss or Mrs? Only trans people, in this lawyer's determination, don't deserve this basic respect from students.


...The irony here is that, due to the internet, kids inevitably find adult materials on their own. Having an education in sexuality, sexual identity, and human diversity before they see that stuff — so they can distinguish fact from fantasy — is the only true way to protect children. Books like "Pride Puppy" prevent the premature sexualization of kids, by answering questions about queer identity in age-appropriate ways. If adults don't answer children's curiosity, kids go looking on their own. Left to their own devices and a search engine, children find materials they're not mature enough to handle."

Link

Children aren't stupid. They see LGBTQ people in the world. They know they exist, or will know. It's damaging to them to deprive them of the opportunity to see them as fully realized human beings.
Be it gay, straight, alien, robot, whatever kink you're into, it's simply not acceptable to be presenting 7 year olds and younger with sexually oriented material.
 
Can anyone here name any so-called "banned" book that I can't buy online and have delivered to my home within 3 days?

Lol, I knew ths misdirecting canard was coming.

The point here is to ban them from classroom reading, much like smoking is banned in restaurants and bars.

Hopes thus helps. 😀
 
Be it gay, straight, alien, robot, whatever kink you're into, it's simply not acceptable to be presenting 7 year olds and younger with sexually oriented material.

There is no complaint about sex. It's about being exposed to gay people. It's apparently against their religion for their kids to know about gay people. Why, I have no idea.
 
"Can you treat someone with "love, kindness, and respect" while simultaneously insisting their identity is so poisonous that it cannot be acknowledged?

The right's lawyer argued that censoring these books wasn't about disrespecting queer people, but protecting "children's innocence." It's a nonsense argument, however, as it assumes there's a "respectful" way to erase people. But it was also quite silly, as if hiding these books would shield children from the knowledge that LGBTQ identities exist. (An unspoken corrollary is the false view they can prevent children from growing up queer.) The case illustrates the animating futility at the heart of the MAGA movement: they will never manifest their dream of a past "great" America, when "queer" wasn't a thing. Such a period never existed, but especially not in an era when queer people are visible in pop culture, the internet, and the general community. The government can force teachers not to say "gay" in school, but kids are going to hear about it everywhere else.

During arguments, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson made this point most clearly, asking the plaintiffs' lawyers how far this parental right to "opt out" should go. She asked if a gay teacher would be allowed to have a wedding photo on her desk? Or if a student group put up "love is love" posters in the hallway? Or if a trans teacher insisted that the students use their preferred name and pronouns? On this last point, the conservative lawyer insisted the teacher has no right to tell students how to address them. This answer gave the game away. It's standard practice for teachers to dictate how students address them: First name or last name? Miss or Mrs? Only trans people, in this lawyer's determination, don't deserve this basic respect from students.


...The irony here is that, due to the internet, kids inevitably find adult materials on their own. Having an education in sexuality, sexual identity, and human diversity before they see that stuff — so they can distinguish fact from fantasy — is the only true way to protect children. Books like "Pride Puppy" prevent the premature sexualization of kids, by answering questions about queer identity in age-appropriate ways. If adults don't answer children's curiosity, kids go looking on their own. Left to their own devices and a search engine, children find materials they're not mature enough to handle."

Link

Children aren't stupid. They see LGBTQ people in the world. They know they exist, or will know. It's damaging to them to deprive them of the opportunity to see them as fully realized human beings.
These people really insult our intelligence with this shit. I wish they would just come out and say it but they are cowards.
 
Lol, I knew ths misdirecting canard was coming.
And I knew this trite and fallacious response would be lobbed back.

The point here is to ban them from classroom reading, much like smoking is banned in restaurants and bars.
Many things are "banned" from classroom reading. Should the Supreme Court review them all?

Hopes thus helps. 😀
At this point the next misdirecting canard response is usually some bullshit. Something along the lines of MAGA blah blah too stupid to read blah blah transphobic blah blah whatever.
 
And I knew this trite and fallacious response would be lobbed back.


Many things are "banned" from classroom reading. Should the Supreme Court review them all?


At this point the next misdirecting canard response is usually some bullshit. Something along the lines of MAGA blah blah too stupid to read blah blah transphobic blah blah whatever.

Should the Supeme Court review these?
 
Be it gay, straight, alien, robot, whatever kink you're into, it's simply not acceptable to be presenting 7 year olds and younger with sexually oriented material.

'Being' those things is no more focused on sex than being straight is. 2 mommies/2 daddies is common. The 7 yr olds are surrounded by classmates and/or their parents that are in those categories every day...at birthday parties, sporting events, school plays, picking up their kids, society in general.

What are the books saying about them that is "wrong?" Are those kids or their parents "wrong?" 'Bad?"
 
These people really insult our intelligence with this shit. I wish they would just come out and say it but they are cowards.
LGBTQ people arent supposed to exist in their uptight suburban puritanical world. All of this nonsense doesn't make a bit of difference because people arent gay because they read a book or saw a movie. People are LGBTQ because they were born that way, so if their kid is trans its not because of school. It's because of their parents made them that way when they were in utero.

They arent going to turn the clock back to pre-Stonewall and erase LGBTQ people from existing openly.


Be it gay, straight, alien, robot, whatever kink you're into, it's simply not acceptable to be presenting 7 year olds and younger with sexually oriented material.
What exactly were you told is happening in public school in regard to sex education, or teaching tolerance for others? Is teaching tolerance for those who arent WASP people offensive to you?

BTW, being LGBTQ isn't a kink another more than being hetero and cisgender is a kink.
 
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*Depictions of gay people*: "ruining a child's innocence"

*Depictions of straight people*: 🤷

Right wing lawyers: bUt HoW iS tHiS bIgOtRy

I'm so sick of these goddamn clowns, not only are they not interested in helping anyone improve their lives materially, they're out here waging dumbass culture wars against queers while regular people are struggling to get by. Can we just get through one day without being inundated with fascist bullshit.
 
*Depictions of gay people*: "ruining a child's innocence"

*Depictions of straight people*: 🤷

Right wing lawyers: bUt HoW iS tHiS bIgOtRy

I'm so sick of these goddamn clowns, not only are they not interested in helping anyone improve their lives materially, they're out here waging dumbass culture wars against queers while regular people are struggling to get by. Can we just get through one day without being inundated with fascist bullshit.
In their minds they are victims of religious persecution because LGBTQ people exist openly as equals and their precious kidlets are being taught tolerance and respect for others, just as Jesus taught.

Matt 7:12,
Luke 6:31
Matt 25:40
Matt 19:12

They will quote Leviticus but Leviticus also commands they dont eat pork, such as the ham they had on Easter.
 
Can anyone here name any so-called "banned" book that I can't buy online and have delivered to my home within 3 days?
If that is your standard, its time to close the school libraries entirely. That is a non discriminatory way to take care of this problem. Just shut them down. If they want to read anything, make them buy it online.
 
"Can you treat someone with "love, kindness, and respect" while simultaneously insisting their identity is so poisonous that it cannot be acknowledged?

The right's lawyer argued that censoring these books wasn't about disrespecting queer people, but protecting "children's innocence." It's a nonsense argument, however, as it assumes there's a "respectful" way to erase people. But it was also quite silly, as if hiding these books would shield children from the knowledge that LGBTQ identities exist. (An unspoken corrollary is the false view they can prevent children from growing up queer.) The case illustrates the animating futility at the heart of the MAGA movement: they will never manifest their dream of a past "great" America, when "queer" wasn't a thing. Such a period never existed, but especially not in an era when queer people are visible in pop culture, the internet, and the general community. The government can force teachers not to say "gay" in school, but kids are going to hear about it everywhere else.

During arguments, Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson made this point most clearly, asking the plaintiffs' lawyers how far this parental right to "opt out" should go. She asked if a gay teacher would be allowed to have a wedding photo on her desk? Or if a student group put up "love is love" posters in the hallway? Or if a trans teacher insisted that the students use their preferred name and pronouns? On this last point, the conservative lawyer insisted the teacher has no right to tell students how to address them. This answer gave the game away. It's standard practice for teachers to dictate how students address them: First name or last name? Miss or Mrs? Only trans people, in this lawyer's determination, don't deserve this basic respect from students.


...The irony here is that, due to the internet, kids inevitably find adult materials on their own. Having an education in sexuality, sexual identity, and human diversity before they see that stuff — so they can distinguish fact from fantasy — is the only true way to protect children. Books like "Pride Puppy" prevent the premature sexualization of kids, by answering questions about queer identity in age-appropriate ways. If adults don't answer children's curiosity, kids go looking on their own. Left to their own devices and a search engine, children find materials they're not mature enough to handle."

Link

Children aren't stupid. They see LGBTQ people in the world. They know they exist, or will know. It's damaging to them to deprive them of the opportunity to see them as fully realized human beings.
There are no book bans. You people are so desperate for the fourth Reich.
 
There are no book bans. You people are so desperate for the fourth Reich.
The book should be in the library. If you don't want your kid reading it then tell them to leave it on the shelf but dont try to tell others what they can or can't read. You are a parent to one kid and not the entire school.
 
Right-wingers here are loath to address the erasing people argument, which I find incongruous. It would be entirely consistent with the .sadistic cruelty with which they advocate for immigrants.
 
The book should be in the library. If you don't want your kid reading it then tell them to leave it on the shelf but dont try to tell others what they can or can't read. You are a parent to one kid and not the entire school.
There are no book bans. If enough people petition the government to have them removed books from the school library that is how the system is designed to work.
 
There are no book bans. If enough people petition the government to have them removed books from the school library that is how the system is designed to work.

Hence, with their disappearance from the classroom, you would characterize the books as _____ from the classroom. What's your preferred term?
 
There are no book bans. If enough people petition the government to have them removed books from the school library that is how the system is designed to work.
We don't live in a democracy and we don't vote on our free speech rights. Leave the books alone if you dont like the subject.
 
We don't live in a democracy and we don't vote on our free speech rights.
Schools don't have free speech rights. The school is a government edifice it is to serve the people not pretend to be the people
Leave the books alone if you dont like the subject.
Seems like the only books they want to remove are inappropriate for children.

Leaving the kids alone.
 
Schools don't have free speech rights.
Public schools are part of the government, so our free speech protections apply to schools.
The school is a government edifice it is to serve the people not pretend to be the people
This makes no sense at all.

Seems like the only books they want to remove are inappropriate for children.

Leaving the kids alone.
Leave the book on the shelf for others who choose to read it.
 
Removed. Lots of things are removed from the classroom it's a classroom.

Vague. It doesn't speak to the requirement that they be removed.

Could one say they were "prohibited" from the classroom?
 
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