Tolerance of the intolerant

[chromium]

please tell me how i must favor that

please tell me what i think.....how i feel.....what i believe

apparently you know more about me, than i do myself

i cant wait to learn all about myself......

the point was if you want to be consistent and not just demonstrating that you value the humane treatment of one minority over another...

then yeah you must favor that

but feel free to tell us yourself what you meant by "imo making a business owner just give up their sense of right/wrong, or coercing them into business against their beliefs is a bigger wrong"

surely that must apply to "whites only" restaurants then?

 

[chromium]

Thus the mentality of a lynch mob is born.

actually it was a compliment, see, i found a 2nd use for homophobes

"Fighting back after they strike first"

so no, not at all the same, but however you see it, all good to me

 

[gdgyva]

the point was if you want to be consistent and not just demonstrating that you value the humane treatment of one minority over another...

then yeah you must favor that

but feel free to tell us yourself what you meant by "imo making a business owner just give up their sense of right/wrong, or coercing them into business against their beliefs is a bigger wrong"

surely that must apply to "whites only" restaurants then?

exactly what i said

we have a jewish bakery in a strip mall a few blocks from where i live

the owners are hasidic jews

about four miles from here is a building where a small contingent of democratic socialist (nazis) meet on a regular basis

if they were to go into the bakery and demand a cake for Hitlers birthday anniversary, do you believe the bakers should have to make it?

i dont....and never will

call it whatever you want.....but morally that request would be repugnant.....and wrong

is that discrimination?

right/wrong.....black/white......grey areas

i am sure that there are bakeries that would happily make that cake for the nazi's......we have hundreds of bakeries in this area

but according to what you all are saying, these bakers dont have the right to say no in a case like that.....and to me, that is so wrong

 

[Lovebug]

Respect my beliefs and who I am, and I shall respect yours and you. Until then, I will still love you, just don't expect me to accept you.

 

[blackjack50]

actually it was a compliment, see, i found a 2nd use for homophobes

"Fighting back after they strike first"

so no, not at all the same, but however you see it, all good to me

Here is the problem. You are claiming "they struck first." Lynch mobs were formed by people who believed the other side struck first. It doesn't make it right. It makes it makes it unjust. It undermines whatever sort of moral high ground you thought you had.

The OP knew what he was talking about. You want to be the voice of reason? The voice of tolerance? Then you must actually adhere to it. The way you have approached it...yea...that has created more enemies than friends. It has created resistance. And let's not forget who has really benefited from this mess. Democrat politicians.

 

[faithful_servant]

This isn't 1950 dude. Do you really think a gay hating bigot in 2015 is EVER going to change their mind? Their only use is for ridiculing

I was a victim for too long to just sit there and take it from those comparing us to animal rapists, necrophiliacs, down's syndrome, "sick perverts" etc.

Why should i even bother with them either when there's tons of ppl to befriend who aren't such overbearing pricks?

..and now we have Christian hating bigots like you pretending that they have the moral high ground because they are hating the "right" people. You can either fight hate or can join in with it, but you can't fight hate with more hate.

 

[faithful_servant]

I never suggested you become friends, only that you practice tolerance. Let them call you names. As you said you do not need their acceptance. But try not to become an overbearing prick in your attempts to ridicule those you perceive to be overbearing pricks. Be worthy of your suffering and be a better person for it, not a resentful one.

VERY well said!!!

 

[Summerwind]

I never suggested you become friends, only that you practice tolerance. Let them call you names. As you said you do not need their acceptance. But try not to become an overbearing prick in your attempts to ridicule those you perceive to be overbearing pricks. Be worthy of your suffering and be a better person for it, not a resentful one.

The irony here is that the OP is asking people who are NOT espousing religious beliefs to be held to the belief system of those xians who are claiming the right to be intolerant. And yet the OP has no suggestions for those parading around their xian intolerance.

 

[chromium]

exactly what i said

we have a jewish bakery in a strip mall a few blocks from where i live

the owners are hasidic jews

about four miles from here is a building where a small contingent of democratic socialist (nazis) meet on a regular basis

Somehow i don't believe this scenario

 

[faithful_servant]

Tolerance is not getting bent out of shape over differences between people that ultimately don't hurt anyone. Language, food, dress, adherence to a different religion, skin color, sexual orientation... all of that about a person makes no difference whatsoever in the life of someone else. Tolerance and not tolerating intolerance is the same notion as the saying "my right to swing my arm ends at your face". I will tolerate whatever there is about you until it starts to hurt someone else. I will tolerate your absurd religion until you start using it to justify taking away someone else's rights, or covering up the rape of children, or psychologically abusing women over their sexuality, or teaching kids lies about science, or anything else that harms someone else.

So based on your standard of measure, all homosexuals are the flamboyant, feathers and glitters and assless chaps wearing homosexual that show up at almost every Gay Pride parade. Or all environmentalists are spiking trees, burning logging equipment and vandalizing businesses. This is the kind of crap that creates the division that is harming this nation. When people start taking the fringe and making it sound like it's the mainstream, it hurts ALL of us.

 

[chromium]

..and now we have Christian hating bigots like you pretending that they have the moral high ground because they are hating the "right" people. You can either fight hate or can join in with it, but you can't fight hate with more hate.

i don't hate christians; i hate christians who slander and oppress lgbt. Sadly that is still most of them

 

[chromium]

I will still love you, just don't expect me to accept you.

these are not compatible sentiments and not all beliefs deserve respect

 

[faithful_servant]

i don't hate christians; i hate christians who slander and oppress lgbt. Sadly that is still most of them

No, it isn't. that's your bigotry speaking. You're no different than the idiots who portrayed all blacks as lazy, shiftless, fired chicken and watermelon eating thieves, because they could find one or two that fit that description and they so desperately wanted to legitimize their bigotry. You are doing the EXACT same thing. You claim to be fighting against hate, but in reality, you are the one doing the hating. You are the one taking the actions of a very small minority and using it to justify hating the majority. I know LOTS of Christians and not one single one of them "slander and oppress lgbt". The only slandering I hear around this thread is YOURS.

 

[blackjack50]

The irony here is that the OP is asking people who are NOT espousing religious beliefs to be held to the belief system of those xians who are claiming the right to be intolerant. And yet the OP has no suggestions for those parading around their xian intolerance.

That isn't really what he is suggesting. In fact. He was using the beliefs of one side to justify tolerance to that side. And to the side of the other.

Again. You can't preach that you are on the side of tolerance while being intolerant. It just doesn't work.

 

[blackjack50]

these are not compatible sentiments and not all beliefs deserve respect

Sure. Lynch mob beliefs don't deserve respect.

 

[CriticalThought]

The irony here is that the OP is asking people who are NOT espousing religious beliefs to be held to the belief system of those xians who are claiming the right to be intolerant. And yet the OP has no suggestions for those parading around their xian intolerance.

Not irony at all. I am not Christian, but I am gay. I am asking people to try to see some of the inherent wisdom in a particular part of the Christian belief system and to practice it better than some who self describe as Christian seem to do. I am not asking anyone to be Christian, but I do admire some of the philosophy espoused by Jesus Christ, and so in this particular instance I am not asking people to be more like Christians, but rather to be more like Christ. There is value and meaning in his approach to those who practice intolerance.

 

[blackjack50]

i don't hate christians; i hate christians who slander and oppress lgbt. Sadly that is still most of them

Are you even willing to make a distinction?

 

[blackjack50]

Not irony at all. I am not Christian, but I am gay. I am asking people to try to see some of the inherent wisdom in a particular part of the Christian belief system and to practice it better than some who self describe as Christian seem to do. I am not asking anyone to be Christian, but I do admire some of the philosophy espoused by Jesus Christ, and so in this particular instance I am not asking people to be more like Christians, but rather to be more like Christ. There is value and meaning in his approach to those who practice intolerance.

But since he was religious...that can't be. He is morally wrong. And since you are gay...that means you are a "traitor."

But seriously.

You have made the best argument I think I have seen on here.

 

[gdgyva]

Somehow i don't believe this scenario

kosher pastry oven, inc
kemp mill md.

then just google nazi party meeting spots washington dc metro areas

you know, once in a while people actually do tell the truth on the internet whether or not you want to believe it


so now, please answer my query

should the bakery be required to bake a cake celebrating hitler's birthday if they were asked?

 

[CriticalThought]

i don't hate christians; i hate christians who slander and oppress lgbt. Sadly that is still most of them

Exactly what do you see as the benefit to hating any Christian?

 

[Summerwind]

That isn't really what he is suggesting. In fact. He was using the beliefs of one side to justify tolerance to that side. And to the side of the other.

Again. You can't preach that you are on the side of tolerance while being intolerant. It just doesn't work.

Not a preacher, neither is anyone in here that I'm aware of, though many xians seem to try to preach. As is the case here. The OP is focused on trying to force religious tolerance on those that don't claim to espouse those religious beliefs. There is virtually no reference to the intolerant religious fanatics except to encourage everyone to be tolerant of their intolerance. Ridiculous and inane, as usual from this crowd.

 

[CriticalThought]

Sure. Lynch mob beliefs don't deserve respect.

Sure they do. They have the numbers and the rope.

Respect is not the same as tolerance. You respect a rattlesnake because you know what it can do. Respect is almost akin to fear. It is deference. Tolerance is about accepting differences. You can even tolerate those who would harm you. It does not mean you won't defend yourself against their attack, but it does mean you do not necessarily need to go out of your way to attack them because you perceive them of trying to cause you harm.

 

[Summerwind]

Not irony at all. I am not Christian, but I am gay. I am asking people to try to see some of the inherent wisdom in a particular part of the Christian belief system and to practice it better than some who self describe as Christian seem to do. I am not asking anyone to be Christian, but I do admire some of the philosophy espoused by Jesus Christ, and so in this particular instance I am not asking people to be more like Christians, but rather to be more like Christ. There is value and meaning in his approach to those who practice intolerance.

Ridiculous. The only thing being tolerant of others breaking the law, being intolerant, being abusive, etc. does is that it gives the perp the idea that it's okay. Just as back in the day, no one felt bad about hanging or burning a slave or freeman because it was all so perfectly "tolerated" by society.
NO. Tolerating is the wrong answer, regardless of it being in the mythological texts of the NT.

 

[blackjack50]

Not a preacher, neither is anyone in here that I'm aware of, though many xians seem to try to preach. As is the case here. The OP is focused on trying to force religious tolerance on those that don't claim to espouse those religious beliefs. There is virtually no reference to the intolerant religious fanatics except to encourage everyone to be tolerant of their intolerance. Ridiculous and inane, as usual from this crowd.

You don't have to be a preacher to do the right thing. But hey. This isn't about gay rights to you then is it? It is about being anti religion. God forbid someone try and encourage a little tolerance. I see now. You aren't concerned about what is right.

 

[Summerwind]

You don't have to be a preacher to do the right thing. But hey. This isn't about gay rights to you then is it? It is about being anti religion. God forbid someone try and encourage a little tolerance. I see now. You aren't concerned about what is right.

Exactly correct. Please get your religions out of the marketplace, out of educational curriculum, and out of government. Exactly correct.