Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148:467]

[beefheart]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

I would not know how to do so.

Fixed it for you.

 

[joG]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

What law did congress make?

SSM is the law. Just as interracial couples are the law.

What would you say if the judge refused to marry interracial couples?

In the eyes of the law, same thing, as they are both legal.

Do you want county judges re-interpreting the law of the land?

Are you for the rule of law, only when you agree with it?

"It is the law" is a rather scrawny argument and dangerous. "It was the law" when Freisler had the Scholl kids' heads chopped. Quite disingenuous argument, really.

 

[beefheart]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

"It is the law" is a rather scrawny argument and dangerous. "It was the law" when Freisler had the Scholl kids' heads chopped. Quite disingenuous argument, really.

You sure do dodge questions.

If the judge refused to marry an interracial couple, would that be against his oath to uphold the law? Yes or no

Same thing. SSM is legal, get over it.

You have zero argument here, as you have repeatedly shown.

Is SSM legal?

Is interracial marriage legal?

 

[joG]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

You sure do dodge questions.

If the judge refused to marry an interracial couple, would that be against his oath to uphold the law? Yes or no

Same thing. SSM is legal, get over it.

You have zero argument here, as you have repeatedly shown.

Is SSM legal?

Is interracial marriage legal?

I think it abominable to force people to perform acts against their conscience, but certainly befitting any good bigot.

 

[Chomsky]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

'Based Upon My Personal And Christian Beliefs': Ohio Judge Refuses To Marry Same-Sex Couple - The New Civil Rights Movement

I'd like to find where to score these jobs where you don't have to do what you're paid to do!

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

Yes, that should have been qualified with "and still keep his/her job" or "and not be fired or asked to resign".

no biggie, i knew what you probably meant but i figured i comment on it and correct it in a friendly/inquisitive way instead of some others who would try to use it as something else

 

[beefheart]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

I think it abominable to force people to perform acts against their conscience, but certainly befitting any good bigot.

You know what is worse? A judge disobeying the law that he was sworn to uphold. Do you really want judges out making their own interpretations of settled law?

Do you?

Is SSM legal?

Is interracial marriage legal?

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

Or you simply have someone else pick up the drinks from the bar and bring them to the table, like they do at every other restaurant.

But that's not always workable, especially on the occasional day when the restaurant gets short-handed - and that does happen, you know.

Again, if the duties of a job include something that your religion forbids, then you don't try to get that job. It's that simple.

 

[Taylor]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

Have you ever taken an oath?

A judge takes an oath to uphold the law. SSM is law.

You seem confused. Nobody was stripped of their right to marry.

 

[1750Texan]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

Nope, he didn't break any oath.

JUDICIAL OATH OF OFFICE
(pursuant to R.C. 3.23)
I, _________________________________________
(insert name)
do solemnly swear
that I will support the Constitution of the United States
and the Constitution of Ohio,
will administer justice without respect to persons,
and will faithfully and impartially
discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me
as ________________________________________,
(insert office)
according to the best of my ability and understanding.
(This I do as I shall answer unto God.)
_______________________________
Judge’s Signature


If he is no longer able to perform the duties he swore to he has the option to resign his position. There is no coercion that he perform the duties of office he swore or affirmed to.

 

[Taylor]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

But that's not always workable, especially on the occasional day when the restaurant gets short-handed - and that does happen, you know.

Again, if the duties of a job include something that your religion forbids, then you don't try to get that job. It's that simple.

Yes, not workable for tiny restaurants with one or two servers. But there's no reason for the moderate and larger restaurants to follow suit simply because it doesn't work for the tiny mom and pop joint on the corner.

 

[Taylor]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

JUDICIAL OATH OF OFFICE
(pursuant to R.C. 3.23)
I, _________________________________________
(insert name)
do solemnly swear
that I will support the Constitution of the United States
and the Constitution of Ohio,
will administer justice without respect to persons,
and will faithfully and impartially
discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me
as ________________________________________,
(insert office)
according to the best of my ability and understanding.
(This I do as I shall answer unto God.)
_______________________________
Judge’s Signature


If he is no longer able to perform the duties he swore to he has the option to resign his position. There is no coercion that he perform the duties of office he swore or affirmed to.

There goes the "uphold the law" argument.

 

[1750Texan]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

You seem confused. Nobody was stripped of their right to marry.

The term is denied. The judge denied the applicants their right to marry. Their right still exists...it has just been unlawfully impeded.

 

[1750Texan]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

There goes the "uphold the law" argument.

A Constitutional ruling is the law.

By now a proviso has been issued by the US Supreme Court to all lower courts as to the ruling of Obergefell v Hodges and it's holdings.

 

[Taylor]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

The term is denied. The judge denied the applicants their right to marry. Their right still exists...it has just been unlawfully impeded.

Not true. Another judge came in and performed the ceremony.

 

[Taylor]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

A Constitutional ruling is the law.

By now a proviso has been issued by the US Supreme Court to all lower courts as to the ruling of Obergefell v Hodges and it's holdings.

There's nothing in that ruling that forces judges to perform ceremonies. You are also wrong about the Supreme Court issuing a "proviso" to all lower courts through Obergefell. That's not how the law works. Not terribly relevent here, though, because it did change the law in Ohio.

 

[1750Texan]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

Not true. Another judge came in and performed the ceremony.

How does that change the facts of his actions...is that not the subject.

Food servers at Applebee's do not swear an oath of office to serve food.

 

[1750Texan]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

There's nothing in that ruling that forces judges to perform ceremonies. You are also wrong about the Supreme Court issuing a "proviso" to all lower courts through Obergefell. That's not how the law works. Not terribly relevent here, though, because it did change the law in Ohio.

I'm not going to argue with you if you are unable or incapable to understand what an oath to preform the duties of the office means.

 

[Taylor]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

How does that change the facts of his actions...is that not the subject.

Food servers at Applebee's do not swear an oath of office to serve food.

You had claimed that "the judge denied the applicants their right to marry" - stepping out and asking another judge to perform the service is not "denying the applicants their right to marry."

 

[Taylor]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

I'm not going to argue with you if you are unable or incapable to understand what an oath to preform the duties of the office means.

I have yet to see a logical argument that makes an oath of office relevant in this case.

 

[beefheart]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

You seem confused. Nobody was stripped of their right to marry.

You are confused, the judge took an oath to obey the law. The law is that SSM is legal, if he refuses to marry a same sex couple, he is not obeying the law he took an oath to uphold.

What if the judge refused to marry an interracial couple? I notice no one is brave enough to answer that question.

 

[Taylor]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

You are confused, the judge took an oath to obey the law. The law is that SSM is legal, if he refuses to marry a same sex couple, he is not obeying the law he took an oath to uphold.

What if the judge refused to marry an interracial couple? I notice no one is brave enough to answer that question.

The judge took an oath to obey the law. The law is that the right to bear arms is legal, if he refuses to allow people to bear arms in his courtroom, he is not obeying the law he took an oath to uphold.

That is how horrible your argument is.

 

[Anthony60]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

Hell no there should not be any "government fund" for that. Now that would be unconstitutional.

Since when does the left give a sh*t about the Constitution???

 

[NonoBadDog]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

JUDICIAL OATH OF OFFICE
(pursuant to R.C. 3.23)
I, _________________________________________
(insert name)
do solemnly swear
that I will support the Constitution of the United States
and the Constitution of Ohio,
will administer justice without respect to persons,
and will faithfully and impartially
discharge and perform all the duties incumbent upon me
as ________________________________________,
(insert office)
according to the best of my ability and understanding.
(This I do as I shall answer unto God.)
_______________________________
Judge’s Signature


If he is no longer able to perform the duties he swore to he has the option to resign his position. There is no coercion that he perform the duties of office he swore or affirmed to.

This isn't anything other than his oath. At least you offered this.

This is where I say:
He still did not give up his constitutional rights to worship and follow his religious beliefs by not PARTICIPATING.
Then you say:
Not fair, he didn't do his job. blah blah
Then I say:
There was no damage because he found another judge who would perform the ceremony,
Then you say:
Not fair, he should be fired.
Then I say:
You can't fire a judge because they are elected.
Then you say:
Not fair blah blah.
I say:
Offer some kind of law, case law, precedence, constitutional argument.
You say:
Not fair, he should be fired.
I get frustrated by the lack of any offering of any information, other than an opinion offered as fact and blow off the discussion as nonsense.
You say:
I won because I won't offer anything but my opinion!!!!! YAY MEEEEEEE!!!!

 

[calamity]

Re: Toledo judge refuses to perform gay marriage [W:148]

You are confused, the judge took an oath to obey the law. The law is that SSM is legal, if he refuses to marry a same sex couple, he is not obeying the law he took an oath to uphold.

What if the judge refused to marry an interracial couple? I notice no one is brave enough to answer that question.

Actually no. The law is that states cannot deny gays a marriage license. It says nothing about a judge having to marry them.