Today in science and space

[gboisjo]

I assume you are referring to the global workspace theory?
While that shows us what areas of the brain light up when we perform certain tasks, it doesn't really explain how our brains know which information to broadcast between different paerts of the brain and which not to. Whatever the case may be, it certainly suggests that more complex levels of sapient reasoning requires much more broadcasting than more mundane tasks.
Also, since we live in a digital era, it is very tempting to analogize biological brains with computers, and while that certainly works to some degree, it may eventually turn out to be a mistake.

Your right.

The human brain is the most complicated organ that nature has ever created ..100 billion nerve cells and many more contact points between them provide our brain with capabilities that no supercomputer can match to this day.

More than likely whats sitting on our shoulders are the most complicated objects in the universe.

I believe life exist elsewhere in the universe, maybe in our solar system. But complicated life like ourselves ..rare if not none.

The trajectory of evolution of life on Earth, for the most part, wasn't towards intelligence ..it was all about biological weapons.

Why, life feeds on life.

 

[The Mark]

That's not the Arecibo telescope, it's the FAST telescope in China.

They are actually kind of similar, having limited steering. But FAST has more than twice the collecting area, and can be focused to some extent.

Ah.

Now that I look again, yep.

The Arecibo one had that structure suspended over the middle.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

Ah.

Now that I look again, yep.

The Arecibo one had that structure suspended over the middle.

FAST has a detector suspended over the middle too, but it's much smaller because it doesn't need Gregorian secondaries. It's not visible in the photograph.

I may have overstated the superiority of FAST. Apparently the manipulation of the surface to provide off-zenith focus to the detector doesn't apply to the whole of it, only an aperture of about 300 m (the same as Arecibo's whole reflector, which was never used all at once either.) And the design allowing for FAST's surface to be pulled into a parabola, requires individual plates which can move relative to each other. It isn't useful at such high frequencies as Arecibo was.

FAST also can't transmit, so it can't participate in radar tracking of asteroids, nor in frightening extraterrestrials.

 

[The Stars Tremble]

Your right.

The human brain is the most complicated organ that nature has ever created ..100 billion nerve cells and many more contact points between them provide our brain with capabilities that no supercomputer can match to this day.

More than likely whats sitting on our shoulders are the most complicated objects in the universe.

I consider that extremely UNlikely. The relative success of humans (compared to other simians for instance) suggests that the same applies everywhere: intelligence is clear survival advantage. Now consider the estimate of 2 trillion galaxies in the observable Universe, and trillions of planets in the average galaxy, and the odds that we're the most intelligent beings is ridiculously small.

I believe life exist elsewhere in the universe, maybe in our solar system. But complicated life like ourselves ..rare if not none.

It could be rare, but still on the vast scale which exists, it would still exist in huge number and variety. We consider ourselves special, that's understandable, but if we'd never evolved then some other highly intelligent life would have instead. Any species which eats meat (or fish) could have taken our place, given a few million years.

Remember that life could have had TENS OF BILLIONS of years longer in other stellar systems. Red dwarfs live a lot longer:

The trajectory of evolution of life on Earth, for the most part, wasn't towards intelligence ..it was all about biological weapons.

Why, life feeds on life.

Animals who relied on their hunting skills are doing particularly badly under Human domination of the ecosystem.

To you, that might seem to show that intelligence is a freak occurrence. To me it shows that intelligence is inevitable: given enough time, there will always evolve more intelligent species who can communicate to each other what is useful for food (and what preparation is required), can cultivate crops and herd animals, can cure each other of disease, deal with biological waste, resolve conflicts between themselves, co-operate while also specializing ... hell, even survival skills we aren't aware of yet. Like colonizing other planets or changing our own genome. Intelligence is a PROVEN survival trait.

 

[HangLow]

Your right.

The human brain is the most complicated organ that nature has ever created ..100 billion nerve cells and many more contact points between them provide our brain with capabilities that no supercomputer can match to this day.

More than likely whats sitting on our shoulders are the most complicated objects in the universe.

I believe life exist elsewhere in the universe, maybe in our solar system. But complicated life like ourselves ..rare if not none.

The trajectory of evolution of life on Earth, for the most part, wasn't towards intelligence ..it was all about biological weapons.

Why, life feeds on life.

​

 

[gboisjo]

I consider that extremely UNlikely. The relative success of humans (compared to other simians for instance) suggests that the same applies everywhere: intelligence is clear survival advantage. Now consider the estimate of 2 trillion galaxies in the observable Universe, and trillions of planets in the average galaxy, and the odds that we're the most intelligent beings is ridiculously small.

The only reason why we are here is because of a fluke asteroid some 66 million years ago.

Before that rat like mammals lived in holes beneath giants feet.

The trajectory of life from the start some 3 billion ago was towards biological weapons and brawn not intelligence.

Mammals were never intended to rule through natural selection, evolution, it took an accident for us to be here.

I would argue this simple truth applies everywhere life exist.

Do accidents exist elsewhere, maybe.

 

[gboisjo]

To you, that might seem to show that intelligence is a freak occurrence. To me it shows that intelligence is inevitable: given enough time, there will always evolve more intelligent species who can communicate to each other what is useful for food (and what preparation is required), can cultivate crops and herd animals, can cure each other of disease, deal with biological waste, resolve conflicts between themselves, co-operate while also specializing ... hell, even survival skills we aren't aware of yet. Like colonizing other planets or changing our own genome. Intelligence is a PROVEN survival trait.

For billions of years brawn ruled and would have still ruled but for a freak accident IMO.

Dinosaurs ruled for 200 million years and some iteration of them would still be here but for an accident.

In other words you wouldn't be here.

Would have tyrannous rex evolved into a intellegent being who could speak and solve abstract problems, I doubt it.

 

[HangLow]

For billions of years brawn ruled and would have still ruled but for a freak accident IMO.

Dinosaurs ruled for 200 million years and some iteration of them would still be here but for an accident.

In other words you wouldn't be here.

Would have tyrannous rex evolved into a intellegent being who could speak and solve abstract problems, I doubt it.

Velociraptors were Dromaeosaurids, among the dinosaurs with the very highest level, so they were truly smart among dinosaurs. On this ranking, they were probably a bit smarter than rabbits and not quite as smart as cats and dogs. ​

 

[The Stars Tremble]

For billions of years brawn ruled and would have still ruled but for a freak accident IMO.

Dinosaurs ruled for 200 million years and some iteration of them would still be here but for an accident.

In other words you wouldn't be here.

Would have tyrannous rex evolved into a intellegent being who could speak and solve abstract problems, I doubt it.

Brawn doesn't rule out brains. The biggest creatures still on Earth (whales) are quite smart.

Smart enough to commit suicide anyway

 

[gboisjo]

Velociraptors were Dromaeosaurids, among the dinosaurs with the very highest level, so they were truly smart among dinosaurs. On this ranking, they were probably a bit smarter than rabbits and not quite as smart as cats and dogs.

Smaller than other dromaeosaurids like Deinonychus and Achillobator, Velociraptor was about 4.9 – 6.8 ft long with a body mass around 31– 43 lb. It was a bipedal, feathered carnivore with a long tail and an enlarged sickle-shaped claw on each hindfoot, which is thought to have been used to tackle and restrain prey.

It's true that this dinosaur had a large brain in proportion to its body, making it one of the more intelligent dinosaurs. But that's a level of brainpower likely on par with average birds rather than the likes of chimps or parrots.

Just enough sensory brain power to kill and eat its prey.

Mammals not dinosaurs had the potential for high intelligence.

The Jurassic Park series featured these predators.

Velociraptor - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[HangLow]

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[HangLow]

Your right.
The human brain is the most complicated organ that nature has ever created ..
100 billion nerve cells and many more contact points between them provide our brain with capabilities that no supercomputer can match to this day.
More than likely whats sitting on our shoulders are the most complicated objects in the universe.
I believe life exist elsewhere in the universe, maybe in our solar system. But complicated life like ourselves ..rare if not none.
The trajectory of evolution of life on Earth, for the most part, wasn't towards intelligence ..it was all about biological weapons.
Why, life feeds on life.

I wonder what this 12,000-year-old organism thinks of humans...​

Haunting Sounds Made by the​

World's Largest Living Thing Recorded​

NATURE20 October 2023 ByTESSA KOUMOUNDOUROS

Aerial outline of Pando. (Lance Oditt/Friends of Pando)

We can now hear one of the largest and most ancient living organisms on Earth whisper with the tremble of a million leaves echoing through its roots.

The forest made of a single tree known as Pando ("I spread" in Latin) has 47,000 stems (all with the same DNA) sprouting from a shared root system over 100 acres (40 hectares) of Utah.

Here, this lone male quaking aspen (Populus tremuloides) gradually grew into a massive 6,000 metric tons of life.

After possibly 12,000 years of life on Earth, this massive plant, whose tree-like stems tower up to 24 meters (80 feet), surely has plenty to say. And recordings released this year let us 'hear' it like never before.

"The findings are tantalizing," Lance Oditt, founder of Friends of Pando, said when the project was unveiled in May.

Haunting Sounds Made by World's Largest Living Thing Recorded

We can now hear one of the largest and most ancient living organisms on Earth whisper with the tremble of a million leaves echoing through its roots.

www.sciencealert.com

Pando, also known as the "Trembling Giant," is in Utah. Mark Muir/USDA

• The Pando tree colony, in Utah, is considered the largest organism on the planet.
• Utah State University researchers have found that the colony is shrinking because of human activity and the presence of wildlife.
• The scientists predict that the 106-acre Pando colony could die if humans don't take steps to help young trees grow.

 

[gboisjo]

I wonder what this 12,000-year-old organism thinks of humans...​

Haunting Sounds Made by the​

World's Largest Living Thing Recorded​

NATURE20 October 2023 ByTESSA KOUMOUNDOUROS

Aerial outline of Pando. (Lance Oditt/Friends of Pando)

We can now hear one of the largest and most ancient living organisms on Earth whisper with the tremble of a million leaves echoing through its roots.

The forest made of a single tree known as Pando ("I spread" in Latin) has 47,000 stems (all with the same DNA) sprouting from a shared root system over 100 acres (40 hectares) of Utah.

Here, this lone male quaking aspen (Populus tremuloides) gradually grew into a massive 6,000 metric tons of life.

After possibly 12,000 years of life on Earth, this massive plant, whose tree-like stems tower up to 24 meters (80 feet), surely has plenty to say. And recordings released this year let us 'hear' it like never before.

"The findings are tantalizing," Lance Oditt, founder of Friends of Pando, said when the project was unveiled in May.

Haunting Sounds Made by World's Largest Living Thing Recorded

We can now hear one of the largest and most ancient living organisms on Earth whisper with the tremble of a million leaves echoing through its roots.

www.sciencealert.com

Pando, also known as the "Trembling Giant," is in Utah. Mark Muir/USDA

• The Pando tree colony, in Utah, is considered the largest organism on the planet.
• Utah State University researchers have found that the colony is shrinking because of human activity and the presence of wildlife.
• The scientists predict that the 106-acre Pando colony could die if humans don't take steps to help young trees grow.

Far removed from nature, humans sometimes forget trees are a living organism.

Trees are much smarter than we give them credit for. They sense their environment, process information, communicate, and problem solve to some extent.

Although trees do not have neurons, they can build a communication network, so their use of the resources needed for their survival ..such as light, nutrients, and water.

Trees are somehow capable of adapting to their environment and changing the integration pathway that would ultimately lead to how a tree “decides” to take response to a presented stimulus.

Think of a tree as an upside down human, where the head (brains) of a tree is in its root system ..its where choices and memories are made.

 

[HangLow]

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[Glitch]

The latest observation from the JWST:

WASP-107b is an exoplanet that is almost twice the mass of Neptune, or 30.5 ± 1.7 M⊕, 94% ± 2% the size of Jupiter's radius, and orbits so closely to its red dwarf star (0.0566 AU) that it only takes 5.7214 days to complete an orbit. Which brings us this news.

JWST detects water vapor, sulfur dioxide and sand clouds in the atmosphere of a nearby exoplanet

A team of European astronomers, co-led by researchers from the Institute of Astronomy, KU Leuven, used recent observations made with the James Webb Space Telescope to study the atmosphere of the nearby exoplanet WASP-107b. Peering deep into the fluffy atmosphere of WASP-107b they discovered not...

phys.org

It is important to note that WASP-107b is an exoplanet that was detected by transiting its star. It is because of the star light passing through the exoplanet's atmosphere that the JWST is able to detect the specific elements. However, when something is completely opaque, completely blocking the starlight, then there is no possibility of being able to tell what that object might be.

We know that H2O, SO2, H2S, NH3, and CO exist in the atmosphere. However, there have been no traces of PH3, HCN, C2H2, SiO, CH4, CO2, or SO. The silicate clouds are merely being inferred due to increased opacity, there is no actual evidence of silicates being present.

Source:
SO2, silicate clouds, but no CH4 detected in a warm Neptune - Nature, November 15, 2023, not yet published. Free preprint can be found here.

 

[Glitch]

Remember that life could have had TENS OF BILLIONS of years longer in other stellar systems. Red dwarfs live a lot longer:

View attachment 67472794

The longevity of a star is certainly important. For main sequence stars their lifespan can be calculated as follows:

LS = 10^10 / M^2.5

Where:

M = Mass of the Star.​

While you correctly pointed out that the most massive main sequence stars would only survive millions of years, not billions of years. It is also certainly true that M-type stars, the least massive and the coolest of all the main sequence stars could live to be trillions of years old.

However, because those M-type stars are so cool planets need to be even closer to be within the habitable zone of the star. M-type stars are notorious flare stars, like Proxima Centauri (a.k.a. Alpha Centauri C). Any planet that orbits too closely to a flare star would be completely sterilized of life, if it even had an atmosphere remaining. Additionally, the luminosity of Proxima Centauri is 0.00492% that of Sol. Which means that Proxima Centauri can be shining brightly overhead in the sky, and you will still be able to see stars all around. It will be about as bright as a dim full moon from a distance of 1 AU.

A better main sequence star for possible life would be around K-type main sequence stars. They will live longer than our G-type dwarf, but not nearly as long as an M-type red dwarf. They would also allow planets to be further away from the star, increasing the likelihood that those planets would have their own rotation and not be tidally locked. K-type stars also do not flare as frequently as M-type stars.

Alpha Centauri B (a.k.a. Toliman) is a good example of a K-type dwarf, with approximately half the luminosity of Sol. It has a mass of 0.9092 ± 0.0025 M☉. Which would give it a lifespan of 12.7 billion years. Since it is already 5.3 billion years old, that would leave another 7.4 billion years before it reaches the helium burning phase. Which is about 2 billion years more than we have with Sol, even though Sol is younger.

It also presumes that the solar system will not be in a cluster, or within ~3 light years of another solar system. When solar systems collide it is never a good thing for life in either solar system. We had a close call 70,000 years ago when a binary solar system called "Scholz's Star" came within 0.8 light years of our solar system, passing through the Oort Cloud, and we are located between two spiral arms.

 

[HangLow]

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[HangLow]

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