Navy Pride
DP Veteran
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2005
- Messages
- 39,883
- Reaction score
- 3,070
- Location
- Pacific NW
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Very Conservative
First, are you trying to prove that Iraq is a partisan issue? Two words: ****ING DUH!!! So yes, the democrats are partisan on the war, so are the republicans, fantastic bit of muckraking you've done right there.
When I say both (all) parties are guilty of making it a partisan issue, that is just my opinion. And having an opinion does not always mean partisan. It just means you disagree with me.scottyz said:Funny that you accuse democrats of making it a partisan issue while you simultaneously make it a partisan issue yourself.
Navy Pride said:To the Democrats Iraq is all about partisan politics...Winning there has nothing to do with it..........The only thing important is winning in the 2006 mid term elections.......Nothing can prove that more then this article.......
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,178324,00.html
...
Caine said:Im a Democrat and to me Iraq was.......
Two deployments of 16 months that was the largest waste of time in my entire life.
The most ignorant reason for me to be in Harms Way.
Say what you want, but the fact that Saddam "mass murdered" people in his own country before I was ever born does not constitute a reason to send my ass to another country in harms way... TWICE...
There were no WMDs......If there were, I would think differently....
There were no ties to terrorism.. until after we showed up that is......If there were before hand.... I would think differently.
Why do you think the ground assualt was easier than expected? Because there were no terrorists, only Baath Party loyalists and the Fedayeen, and there were not many of them. It wasn't until many many months of being in country did we start discovering NEW enemies that we didn't have many months before. These were the groups of "terrorists" or insurgents that our long lasting occupation created, that and a few terrorists decided to get in on some action, cause its easier to kill an American "infidel" when they are already on your side of the globe.
mesue said:Lieberman was there how long, a few days and is a politician who knows nothing about this war compared to the person who wrote this. They were there for two tours of duty. Who does it make more sense to believe?
Caine were many of the soldiers who were there coming to the same conclusions you did? Are you aware that those of us who opposed this war are being told that we are against the soldiers and helping the terrorists by voicing or writing about out dissent?
mesue said:Lieberman was there how long, a few days and is a politician who knows nothing about this war compared to the person who wrote this. They were there for two tours of duty. Who does it make more sense to believe?
Caine were many of the soldiers who were there coming to the same conclusions you did? Are you aware that those of us who opposed this war are being told that we are against the soldiers and helping the terrorists by voicing or writing about out dissent?
Navy Pride said:Leiberman was there 4 times in the last 17 months............
In addition anyone can say they have served in Iraq 2,3,4 tours......It does not mean much in this forum
My post was directed at NP, sorry for the confusion.headforspace said:When I say both (all) parties are guilty of making it a partisan issue, that is just my opinion. And having an opinion does not always mean partisan. It just means you disagree with me.
Navy Pride said:In addition anyone can say they have served in Iraq 2,3,4 tours......It does not mean much in this forum
mesue said:Well it should!!!! Oh I see what you mean, your questioning his credibility, why? He sounds credible to me and I have no reason not to trust and take him at his word.
Caine said:He tries to discredit me because I have been there and disagree with him.
He doesn't discredit those who have been "involved" in this conflict and DO agree with him.....
Which somehow usually consists of Navy guys who didn't go farther into country than the small coastal region of Iraq and Kuwait.
When I offered to provide a copy of my DD214 (discharge from active duty paperwork, which shows deployment time and where), he immediately exclaimed that DD214s are easy to fraud... see the lengths some people will go to discredit others?
mesue said:Well it should!!!! Oh I see what you mean, your questioning his credibility, why? He sounds credible to me and I have no reason not to trust and take him at his word.
Navy Pride said:When people constantly brag on their duty there it makes one wonder.........
Caine said:I brag because I am proud of it.....even if I don't agree with what I was doing.
You may say that makes no sense... I say this.... I signed up... **** hit the fan, I have no say in what I am ORDERED to do, I do what I am ordered.
I was ordered to do something.... Im proud I was a part of a military operation, but I disagree that we went in there with good intentions.
Fortunately, things are looking good with elections and I pray that the troops can come home in the near future, near meaning less than 5 years, but I doubt it though, we will most likely be there for a LONG, LONG time..... Take no offense of it Navy Pride, but if you are a Vietnam Veteran like you claim to be, then you are probably of the age that you will not see the troops completely pull out of Iraq.
Navy Pride said:If you were in the military you know if you feel and order is unlawful you don't have to obey it..........
I may not see all the troops come home after all we still have troops in Germany Japan and Korea so I doubrt if you will either......
That said I will live to see a free democratic government set up in Iraq.....Will you put side your hatred for this president long enough to give him and his administration credit for accomplishing that/
Caine said:I never even mentioned the president in here.... Have I?
Stop making ignorant assumptions.
I guess I didn't make myself clear.
I was proud of what I did even though I did not agree with what I was doing... (That doesn't mean it is unlawful)
As you may have skipped because it wasn't something for you to argue about... I did say that THINGS ARE GOING GOOD WITH ELECTIONS... I am glad that Iraq is going to be a "free democratic society" thats great, but our continued presence there trivializes the validity of exactly how free they really will be. If we leave in due time (within at least the next 2 years), then I can really call them free. If we remain there under the consent of thier newly elected government... I can still call them free......
But, it has already been questioned (at least through the media) that if the newly elected government and thier prime minister all vote to ask us to leave Iraq... we most likely will tell them "No" .....this has been stated on many news networks, and I believe them..... The problem with that is, that makes us occupiers and it makes thier government appear not to be "Free" per se.
Thats my take on it......Of course you disagree.... but if the vote on it and want us out... we should do as they say, for they are the Democratic Nation of Iraq after all....who are we to continue to "occupy" them if they don't want us to?
Navy Pride said:Well I asked you a qustion......Will you give this president that you hate so much that its eating you alive credit iif a free bonafied democracy is established in Iraq?
The administration has said over and over again that if the elected government of Iraq asks us to leave we will do so.......What part of that do you not understand?
Caine said:Im not answering your stupid question until you stop wording it like a moron.
Again I ask, Where did I state I hate Bush?????? Where did I say it is eating me Alive????? Please, sir, inform me of where I said this.....
Again, I state, As I have earlier (maybe it was in another thread), Bush does not deserve any credit for a free "bonafide" Democracy in Iraq because creating this democracy was not his intention, if you watch video from his 2000 election campaign you will see that he said our military should not be used for "Nation Building" so this is obviously not his original intent in Iraq, rather.. what HAS to be done in order to restore peace in a region destroyed by war.
I do not understand why white house representatives have been on Network News stating that we probably would NOT leave if asked to do so by the Iraqi government. There are two sides to this argument, cause there have been some who have said we would... im just wondering which one is being honest, and which one is trying to please the ears of the American people who have earned so much disdain for this war.
Navy Pride said:Why am I not surprised at you answer......:roll:
Caine said:So, is that what you want?
Him to get elected on part of his campaign being not using our soldiers for "Nation Building" as he called it.... yet turn around and take the FULL credit for Building a Free Iraq?????
Fine...
I give President Bush credit for lying to the American people about not wanting to use our troops for Nation Building, then turning around and doing it anyways.
Or, would you rather me give him no credit at all....
In this case, its more respectful not to give him any credit.
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