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To Be a Christian.....

To be a Christian, you must believe in the God of the New Testament (and Jesus, obviously).

Believing in the God of the Old Testament is optional.
 
Ug make hammer said:
To be a Christian, you must believe in the God of the New Testament (and Jesus, obviously).

Believing in the God of the Old Testament is optional.
Click to expand...
What is the name of the God of the New Testament? And what is the name of the God of the Old Testament?
 
Logician Man said:
Is it a requirement one must believe the Christian God is Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient? Yes? Or No?
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That's not a requirement to be a Christian.
The only requirement to be a disciple of Christ (Christian), is to have faith in Him, which of course goes with obeying His teachings.

However, it is essential to know that God is Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient ....................................as part of knowing and understanding GOD/JESUS.
Like, to understand why nothing can be hidden from God, as an example.
Like, how can God be Jesus?
Or, that with Him - nothing is impossible. Etc..,
 
Ug make hammer said:
To be a Christian, you must believe in the God of the New Testament (and Jesus, obviously).

Believing in the God of the Old Testament is optional.
Click to expand...


WRONG!


The New Testament is a continuation of the Old Testament.
The New Testament is about the Messiah - the fulfillment of the promise made by the GOD OF THE OLD TESTAMENT!


Lol - if you don't believe in the God of the OT, why would you believe anything written in the NT?
 
Logician Man said:
According to this link, and the written content contained within the link ---> https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/god-omnipresent/ from a Christian website, the Christian God is 'not' Omnipresent, tosca.
Click to expand...



Oh lol - they also say God is a person! 😁



If God is not omnipresent, can he really care for me personally?​


Yes. God cares deeply about individuals. Although he lives in the spirit realm, God notices those on earth who truly want to please him, and he acts in their behalf. (




Right there, is a contradiction to their claim!


NO, HE WON'T BE ABLE TO................... if He's not everywhere!
Lol - how many people in this planet? They're saying.......
It'll have to be by luck that He happens to be where you are - for Him to NOTICE YOU!


What happened to this?

Matthew 18:20
For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.”


How many are gathered in twos or threes all over the world at the same time? How can He manage to be there?


That HE SEES YOU, AND KNOWS WHAT YOU THINK, AND FEEL, shows that He is Omnipresent.



Jeremiah 23:24
“Can a man hide himself in hiding places
So I do not see him?” declares the Lord.
“Do I not fill the heavens and the earth?” declares the Lord.


Isaiah 57:15
For thus says the high and exalted One
Who lives forever, whose name is Holy,
“I dwell on a high and holy place,
And also with the contrite and lowly of spirit
In order to revive the spirit of the lowly
And to revive the heart of the contrite.


Act 17:27
that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us;
 
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Logician Man said:
What is the name of the God of the New Testament? And what is the name of the God of the Old Testament?
Click to expand...

What a feeble didactic point. OF course Jesus claimed to the son and incarnation of the reigning God. If he hadn't, he'd have been stoned to death on day one of his testimony. Would it totally blow you mind that maybe Jesus was the real and only God?

You should have ruled my post off-topic, because it was. You're just looking for a fight, aren't you?

Logician Man said:
Is it a requirement one must believe the Christian God is Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient? Yes? Or No?
Click to expand...

No. The authors of the bible did not have the intellectual or educational requirements to distinguish "really really big" from "infinite".

And to be honest, I don't either. I understand the mathematical Orders of Infinity, but I can't claim to be able to conceptualize infinite values. Philosophically, infinity is a No Go Area.

Theologically, those infinite values are a voluntary brain-fuzz. When you ascribe to God infinite powers in space and time, you are making excuses for your own inability to see pattern or purpose in God's work. It's the opposite of science, and it disgusts me.
 
Logician Man said:
According to this link, and the written content contained within the link ---> https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/god-omnipresent/ from a Christian website, the Christian God is 'not' Omnipresent, tosca.
Click to expand...


Furthermore -

To say that GOD is not, or cannot be omnipresent, would be putting a limit to GOD's power.
That would mean, if God's power has a limit - then, He isn't OMNIPOTENT.

That contradicts Jesus' claim that with God, ALL things are possible.


Matthew 19:26
But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”


Jehovah's Witnesses have so many contradictions in their doctrine.
They even contradict their own statement!
 
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Logician Man said:
Is it a requirement one must believe the Christian God is Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient? Yes? Or No?
Click to expand...
Jesus said those who hate me love death. It sounds like the belief in life is the requirement.

Besides, for God to be omni- anything, he'd have to be omni- everything. Unlimited existence would apply equally across all of reality.
 
tosca1 said:
Furthermore -

To say that GOD is not, or cannot be omnipresent, would be putting a limit to GOD's power.
That would mean, if God's power has a limit - then, He isn't OMNIPOTENT.

That contradicts Jesus' claim that with God, ALL things are possible.


Matthew 19:26
But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”


Jehovah's Witnesses have so many contradictions in their doctrine.
They even contradict their own statement!
Click to expand...

"All things are possible" does not imply infinite power. It means "all thing YOU CAN CONCEIVE OF are possible"

The context is ALL OF THE BIBLE. Even Revelations, where Paul blows a gasket trying to express the limit of amazing things. None of the Authors, inspired by God or not, get anywhere near a modern mathematical understanding of Infinity. They're amateurs who are dazzled by lightning bolts which burn cities to the ground, or floods which kill "everyone" but Noah and his menagerie ... or subtle snakes ... need I go on?

It's a small minded book for small minded people, and it's time to put it back on the shelf.
 
Ug make hammer said:
"All things are possible" does not imply infinite power. It means "all thing YOU CAN CONCEIVE OF are possible"

The context is ALL OF THE BIBLE. Even Revelations, where Paul blows a gasket trying to express the limit of amazing things. None of the Authors, inspired by God or not, get anywhere near a modern mathematical understanding of Infinity. They're amateurs who are dazzled by lightning bolts which burn cities to the ground, or floods which kill "everyone" but Noah and his menagerie ... or subtle snakes ... need I go on?

It's a small minded book for small minded people, and it's time to put it back on the shelf.
Click to expand...


ALL things, are also all those things, that your mind cannot even imagine or conceive!

Lol - if it says ALL - then, it means NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE!

OMNIPOTENT - that means UNLIMITED power.


We cannot limit God based on our puny, limited imagination or thinking.
He is not like us.
 
Ug make hammer said:
"All things are possible" does not imply infinite power. It means "all thing YOU CAN CONCEIVE OF are possible"

The context is ALL OF THE BIBLE. Even Revelations, where Paul blows a gasket trying to express the limit of amazing things. None of the Authors, inspired by God or not, get anywhere near a modern mathematical understanding of Infinity. They're amateurs who are dazzled by lightning bolts which burn cities to the ground, or floods which kill "everyone" but Noah and his menagerie ... or subtle snakes ... need I go on?

It's a small minded book for small minded people, and it's time to put it back on the shelf.
Click to expand...
I'm wondering why you are crediting Paul with Revelation. Paul had long since been executed by the Romans before Revelation was penned. Perhaps, I'm misunderstanding.
 
Ug make hammer said:
To be a Christian, you must believe in the God of the New Testament (and Jesus, obviously).

Believing in the God of the Old Testament is optional.
Click to expand...
It's the same God. The only difference is God had a makeover in between testaments.
 
Ug make hammer said:
You should have ruled my post off-topic, because it was. You're just looking for a fight, aren't you?
Click to expand...
How am I looking "looking for a fight" because you, by your own admission, put forth an "off-topic" post ( which is basically admitting you were willfully, and intentionally, attempting to derail the thread )? Then, when asked a fair and simple question about your "off-topic" post, you refused to give a direct answer to that fair and simple question about your "off-topic" post.
 
Logician Man said:
Is it a requirement one must believe the Christian God is Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omniscient? Yes? Or No?
Click to expand...

Ah this will be thoroughly enjoyable. (I cannot speak for Christians, only profess what I as a Christian believe).

To answer your queries requires knowledge as to what it means, in relation to the Christian God, to be Omnipresent, Omnipotent, and Omnsicient.

Omnipotent: God is all powerful to do and preform all that which is logically possible. There cannot exist square triangles, circle squares, square circles, a married bachelor and this doesn’t limit God’s power in any substantive manner. Nobody can do the aforementioned, but this leaves a vast reservoir of power to God that no one else possesses, hence he is omnipotent.

Omniscient: omniscience is defined as propositional knowledge, of knowing only and all truths, while not necessarily having or including all non-propositional knowledge. Yes, God is omniscient.

Omnipresent: this is not a concept easily and lightly understood by the most astute experts/philosophers/religious philosophers/Christian philosophers/ in regards to the Bible, OT and NT.

To quote to one expert: “The answer depends on whether God exists throughout space or transcends space. Although the Scriptures typically speak of God in spatial terms, I was surprised to discover that the scriptural concept of heaven as God’s realm (as opposed to “the heavens” in the sense of the skies or the starry heavens) is meant to underscore, not God’s spatial location, but His transcendence of the world and so could be construed in terms of God’s transcending space…
If God transcends space, then God’s omnipresence is explained by and reducible to His omnipotence and His omniscience. God can be said to be omnipresent in the sense that He is causally active at and cognizant of every point in space. This is not to say that God’s omnipresence is “just a clumsy yet long held description” of His omnipotence and omniscience, for there is nothing clumsy about so understanding God’s omnipresence—on the contrary, it’s a pretty exalted view of God’s presence to everything!

There is today, however, a handful of contemporary scholars who maintain not only that God is literally in space but that this has actually been the mainstream position in Christian theology since the time of Augustine in the fifth century! I am convinced that these revisionist scholars are quite mistaken about the historical view. Given scriptural language, classical theologians, of course, affirm that God exists everywhere and is present to every place; but the question is what they meant by that. How is God present in every place? What they mean, I think, is that God is, in Thomas Aquinas’ terms, causally connected to everything in space, knows what is happening everywhere in space, and is the ground of being for everything that exists in space, but without being in space Himself.” https://www.reasonablefaith.org/writings/question-answer/gods-omnipresence
 
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Ug make hammer said:
What a feeble didactic point. OF course Jesus claimed to the son and incarnation of the reigning God. If he hadn't, he'd have been stoned to death on day one of his testimony. Would it totally blow you mind that maybe Jesus was the real and only God?

You should have ruled my post off-topic, because it was. You're just looking for a fight, aren't you?



No. The authors of the bible did not have the intellectual or educational requirements to distinguish "really really big" from "infinite".

And to be honest, I don't either. I understand the mathematical Orders of Infinity, but I can't claim to be able to conceptualize infinite values. Philosophically, infinity is a No Go Area.

Theologically, those infinite values are a voluntary brain-fuzz. When you ascribe to God infinite powers in space and time, you are making excuses for your own inability to see pattern or purpose in God's work. It's the opposite of science, and it disgusts me.
Click to expand...

Heads up! The author has created similar threads before. Notice the author doesn’t define the terms which are the subject of his queries. It is imperative to carefully define your terms when replying. See my post 17 as an example.

In another thread, where some answered affirmative, he followed up with some examples/hypos of illogical outcomes based on his assumed meaning of the words. To anyone who has debated/read these topics in philosophy, some higher learning setting, etcetera, it is clear the terms need to be defined by the responder.

The author ensnares the believer who hasn’t given the subject matter of the questions much thought.

You will also read a heavy dose of self-serving declarations of “asked a fair and simple question” by the author. I’ll see if I can find the other thread. You should read it. The evolution of this thread is mirroring the other.
 
NotreDame said:
The author ensnares the believer who hasn’t given the subject matter of the questions much thought.
Click to expand...
And even if they have, he manages to twist their words to say something entirely different from what they mean...the OP thrives on being dishonest...
 
Elora said:
And even if they have, he manages to twist their words to say something entirely different from what they mean...the OP thrives on being dishonest...
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https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/god-omnipresent/ - From the link provided by jw.org. ---> "However, the Bible does not teach that God is omnipresent - that is, present every where, in all things. Instead it shows that he is a person and he resides in a dwelling place." --- Anything "dishonest", or being "twisted" in the words in quotations from the link provided by jw.org, @Elora?
 
Elora said:
And even if they have, he manages to twist their words to say something entirely different from what they mean...the OP thrives on being dishonest...
Click to expand...
How so? He cited scripture to support his assertion. Perhaps you should take issue with your bible/religion?
 
tosca1 said:
Oh lol - they also say God is a person.
Click to expand...

John 4:24​

​

New International Version​

​

​

24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”


The Bible verse presented above is clearly in conflict with anyone, or any theology/religious dogma that declares the Christian God is a "person."
 
tosca1 said:
ALL things, are also all those things, that your mind cannot even imagine or conceive!

Lol - if it says ALL - then, it means NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE!

OMNIPOTENT - that means UNLIMITED power.


We cannot limit God based on our puny, limited imagination or thinking.
He is not like us.
Click to expand...

Your wild abandon over the meaning of just one word, just reinforces my point. All things are possible within your puny human imagination

Infinity is far more than that. Infinity is more than anything even your puny God.
 
Logician Man said:

John 4:24​

​

New International Version​

​

​

24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”


The Bible verse presented above is clearly in conflict with anyone, or any theology/religious dogma that declares the Christian God is a "person."
Click to expand...
Exactly...from the link you posted but obviously failed to read...

God’s form: God is a spirit person. (John 4:24) He is invisible to humans. (John 1:18) Visions of God recorded in the Bible consistently portray him as having a distinct location. He is never depicted as existing everywhere.—Isaiah 6:1, 2; Revelation 4:2, 3, 8.
 
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