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Greece must cut 4,000 jobs to earn its next bailout payment. But with each cut the government's control in the country is weakening, as the desperate populace turn to vigilante governance, Golden Dawn style.
As cuts bite ever deeper in Greece, many Greeks feel that the government can no longer provide the protection and services needed for a strong civil society. And in this frightening power vacuum the people have turned to another power: "If I get burgled or I have a problem and I call Golden Dawn, in zero time they are here," says local shop owner, Mathina. But Golden Dawn aren't just an over-active neighbourhood watch: "We are ready to open the ovens! We will turn them into soup." It's statements like these, from a Golden Dawn member running for parliament, that has immigrants in Greece living in fear. And their threats are not idle. Immigrants dragged out of A&E, businesses ransacked and racially-segregated soup kitchens have become commonplace. The checking of people's papers on the streets is scarily reminiscent of Nazi Germany or Stalin's Russia. "Greeks are hungry, foreigners are hungry. In the end one will eat the other," Mathina says simply. As more locals like Mathina turn to Golden Dawn for support it begs the question; at what cost is Greece's tough economic medicine coming?
Video @: [/FONT][/COLOR]Thug Politics - Greece - YouTube
A short documentary on the political party Golden Dawn in Greece, a far right, neo-nazi, racist organization. And somehow this scum fascist party has seats in parliament. Disgusting. Anyways **** these fascist neo-nazi turds.
This is what happens when the economy is so terrible, people dont focus on the main causes of the problem and instead like to put their blames on others, and in this case its immigrants, and minorities.
You spend yourself into oblivion by stupid economic polices and foolish social spending, then you expect to be able to go to others and demand they bail you out AND that they contineu to allow the same kind of stupid business practices that put you in that situation...and you blame the lender. Huh.
Hey...how about you 'loan' me 100k. I'll pay you back someday...honest...
Solving the 'problem'...thats what we call THEIR problem. They made the mess...they have to fix the mess. Its not just in personal finances...it happens in corporations as well. Corporations mismanage hiring, bring on far too much administration and management, and when they go to file re-org bankruptcy they have to review every position, and they HAVE to make cuts. If they dont make cuts, they dont become solvent, they just have the banks give them more money to maintain status quo which is what got them there in the first place. Greece cannot solve their problems by simply demanding their creditors give them more money to pay for their current inefficient system. Where is the change? Where is the payback opportunity?That's true. But that's not about you (single person) lending me (single person) money. It's more complicated. Because the Money the state borrowed went to the banks, and the same banks were paying back the loan.
Now, I agree... You can't just withdraw money and then justify yourself saying "i can't pay back", but is this the way to solve the problem? Cutting jobs? How can they earn something to escape from this situation?
Solving the 'problem'...thats what we call THEIR problem. They made the mess...they have to fix the mess. Its not just in personal finances...it happens in corporations as well. Corporations mismanage hiring, bring on far too much administration and management, and when they go to file re-org bankruptcy they have to review every position, and they HAVE to make cuts. If they dont make cuts, they dont become solvent, they just have the banks give them more money to maintain status quo which is what got them there in the first place. Greece cannot solve their problems by simply demanding their creditors give them more money to pay for their current inefficient system. Where is the change? Where is the payback opportunity?
Again...thats GREECES problem to figure out, not their creditors. Their creditors are not responsible for the creation of the problem, nor the solution. You want their money? You'd best figure that part out. You think the banks are on the hook to provide jobs when corporations have to lay people off? Thats the harsh reality that hits you when you carelessly spend yourself into oblivion. Dont worry...we as a country are about 10 years behind them and so we will have the opportunity to figure that out as well." How can they earn something to escape from this situation? "
I didn't get the answer...
You spend yourself into oblivion by stupid economic polices and foolish social spending, then you expect to be able to go to others and demand they bail you out AND that they contineu to allow the same kind of stupid business practices that put you in that situation...and you blame the lender. Huh.
Hey...how about you 'loan' me 100k. I'll pay you back someday...honest...
This thread is about how far right political groups are gaining ground in Greece. far right populist parties like the Golden Dawn. It's not about the greek economic situation, which is bad, but yeah.
Well there is a good Channel 4 video on that aspect from 30th May. Muslim Associations have warned Muslims they will be slaughtered like chickens if they remain. Meanwhile Black people are working on their own safety and have created 'black panther' groups.
Standing up to Golden Dawn in Greece - Channel 4 News
What you mentioned about people criticising them and not the left, I think in Greece the situation is a bit different. From another forum it appears that one of the problems is that everyone is so upset at the situation that a lot of them just think, as long as it is not the current system and for that in an indirect way support them. Economic despair seems to be what has led to this deeply concerning situation.
You are going to be spit vitriol against the golden dawn party... but when the communist party in Greece SPYRZA or wahtever it's called, has a good run, you're overflowing with joy.
The black guy seems very racist.He says he considers himself greek because he lived there from the time he was 8 months old, but he is racist as hell.
Ofc, the guys who he is threatened by are also racists, but he is also one of them, just on the other team.
Also, in one minute, the guy says that the police are supporting the golden dawn... the next minute you see coverage that the police broke the soup kitchen the golden dawn set up.
Amid a dramatic surge in attacks on immigrants blamed on the neo-Nazis, the debt-stricken country's ruling alliance has come under unprecedented pressure to crack down on racially motivated crimes. Legislation calling for a ban on parties perceived to incite such violence was proposed by prime minister Samaras's two junior leftist partners last month. Claiming that it would "victimise" Golden Dawn, which has 18 of the 300 MPs in parliament, the conservative groups last week rejected the bill as counterproductive. On Friday they put forward their own, less punitive law.
As parliament prepares to debate how best to apply legislation that will curb the party, – measures that have unexpectedly electrified the political scene – the far right is flourishing in the knowledge that, in a country reeling from the twin ills of austerity and despair, it is they who are in the ascendant. Since elections last year, Golden Dawn's appeal has almost doubled, with successive polls showing support of between 11% and 12% for the neo-fascists. Privately pollsters acknowledge that, as Greece's third-strongest and fastest-growing political force, the group could garner as much as 15% of support in local elections next year.
Now I don't speak Greek, but if the translation at min 5:40 is correct, than that's just plain old disgusting.
So all in all. It's a mess. I don't blame the police for trying to find out illegal immigrants and sending them out of the country.
Well lots have been killed. I do agree that Greece has a problem being the first place people come to and that is all the more so in the present climate. A Greek suggested a suitable response would be to give them all Greek citizenship. Then they would go on their way.Illegal immigrants don't belong in the country so I do not lament for them at all.
From my POV, they are solely responsible for the wave of anti-immigrant feeling that exists in Greece and the golden dawn is just the effect of this wave.
If there would be no illegal immigration, even if there were anti-immigrant sentinment, it would be a lot reduced.
Legal immigrants do. I lament for the legal immigrants who are being targetted by the golden dawn, obviously, they target people racially. So whether you are in the country legally or illegally is the same thing for them, they won't stop and ask you what's what, like the police do. They're just brutes.
Also, I condemn the report for being biased. They sent a black reporter so that he could only get one side of the story.
They should have done their best to get the other side of the story if they wanted to be objective.
National Film and Television School student Konstantinos Georgousis spent a month with the organisation last summer, as Greece hovered on the abyss, for his documentary film The Cleaners.
'Shocked by their hostility'
Writing about his experience of making the film, Mr Georgousis says: "I walked through every nook and cranny in the centre of Athens to find these Golden Dawn members.
"I was terrified that these members were proud to express their extreme ideas during campaigning openly in public. I was shocked by their hostility and by the way they treated immigrants in the Athenian squares."
Greek centre-right New Democracy MP Adonis Georgiadis told Channel 4 News the opinions expressed by Golden Dawn supporters in Konstantinos Georgousis's film are not "the opinion of the majority of Greek people".
"Many man people in Greece are very much concerned about the changing of the population because of these illegal immigrants," he said.
"Golden Dawn is a disgrace for our society and our democracy."
But he explained that Greek society was under "major pressure" which prompted some people went to vote for Golden Dawn.
I dont see SYRIZA (which is currently a left wing coalition which will become a party in a month officially), or the Communist Party (KKE) spewing hate rhetoric..
Or using Nazi symbolism or praising Nazi figures
Or attacking immigrants simply cuz they are immigrants, or going into hospitals trying to find out if the patients are actual citizens, threatening people, or their candidates who run for office spewing hate rhetoric and wanting to "open up the ovens" for immigrants.
You'd think more americans would be pissed off about it but lol fascism has always been more acceptable than socialism to the west. Or at least western liberals
How do you work this?
Liberals are by and large anti-socialist and/or anti-communist.
There are a few liberals who have claimed that fascism "saved Europe"
I made the statement that one would think Americans would be more angry about Golden Dawn since they are Nazis. America (the US, whatever) as an institution supposedly cant stand Nazis. I just sensed some hypocrisy is all.
And social democracy isn't socialism.
Social democracy is a political ideology that officially has as its goal the establishment of democratic socialism through reformist and gradualist methods.[1]
And communism isn't the USSR
OK I didn't know that. I had not realised your last post was still talking about your first one. Europe has a serious dislike of Nazi's as well.
no it is
Social democracy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
but you are right that is what I was thinking about.
You will need to give the quote. I heard him say something like 'don't come for a black man' if that is what you are meaning, but in the circumstances I do not find that racist. He is talking about Golden Dawn attackers.
Yet Nazi and other far-right fascist parties exist all over it as well as America
Social democracy abandoned Marxism. It is a liberal capitalist movement. It retains the capitalist mode of production. It retains alienation and exploitation. It creates its own contradictions by limiting the efficiency of the capitalist system by reducing incentives for capitalists to invest in production.
Never said it was.
You said "communism up to this point" did you not? I assumed you were referring to the Soviets
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