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This Is Why We Need Guns

I think instances of 'fair and equal treatment' from the police is statistically insignificant...

And I think you're totally wrong
Let's say you are in a strange town and get into a fight with a local man

It doesn't matter if he was trying to rob you and rape your wife, the small town PD will always side with him


as are the number of so called 'bad cops', yet very significant in impact. I don't see a federalized local policing system (and that's an oxymoron if I ever heard of one) isn't going to change that much in the least.

What did the Minneapolis city council say of their PD

"rotten to the core and beyond fixing"


Apparently we differ in our opinions.


You could say that

I hope the MPD is disbanded and I watch with interest how policing in Minnesota improves.
 
So we can get rid of the "one size fits all" comment....because states come in different sizes and so do areas within a state

The police service would tailor each police division to the area/population they have responsibility for



To improve policing


"While Minneapolis's move to scrap its police force is unheard-of for a city of its size, it is not unprecedented.
In 2012 the city of Camden, New Jersey - then one of the most violent places in America - announced it was gutting its entire police force along with the local union.
In an attempt at a do-over, it moved to a cheaper but larger county force with the concept of 'community policing' at its core.
Instead of being sent out to make arrests, officers went out in ice cream trucks and hosted barbecues in an attempt to connect with locals.
Officers were given 'deescalation' training, body cameras, and a strict new code on what constitutes 'reasonable' force - including that all other options must be exhausted before an officer can draw a weapon.
The new rules are requirements, not simply guidelines, with officers compelled to act if they see another officer breaching the guide. The department can fire any officer found to be in breach.
Since then, the city's murder rate has dropped by almost 50 per cent while excessive force complaints have dropped by 94 per cent.
As protests sprung up across the nation in response to George Floyd's death, officers in Camden asked to join in - with white police chief Joseph Wysocki pictured holding a banner reading 'marching in solidarity' alongside black activists.
"


Minneapolis mayor balks at plans to 'abolish' the police department | Daily Mail Online





So what ?

Would it be better if the Constitution were changed to allow each state or even each town to organize its own army ?




So what ?

It's not doing a great job right now, local PDs are rotten to the core and need replacing entirely, and not just with a copy of it




If the problem is local sure, let the police division/precinct with responsibility for that area handle it

But they're not antonymous, they must act in accordance to state/federal law and not make up one rule for their small town and another for the rest of the country

Btw, do you have any police experience ?




No, that's a local responsibility

But equally we don't need a small town PD deciding to not charge a gun owner for shooting a fleeing shoplifter in order to punish him
Or deciding that a local bar owner thinking it's OK to exclude black people




Because they just could be the catalyst that pulls the whole rotten edifice, of militarized US policing, down like a wrecking ball.
Ok, I'm done. Good talk.
 
And I think you're totally wrong
Let's say you are in a strange town and get into a fight with a local man

It doesn't matter if he was trying to rob you and rape your wife, the small town PD will always side with him




What did the Minneapolis city council say of their PD

"rotten to the core and beyond fixing"





You could say that

I hope the MPD is disbanded and I watch with interest how policing in Minnesota improves.

Or if it improves. Statistics show that it is a mere 1% or 2% of police officers which are the cause of police abuse. Disbanding an entire police department over single digit percent of problems sure seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater, a severe over reaction.
 
Or if it improves. Statistics show that it is a mere 1% or 2% of police officers which are the cause of police abuse. Disbanding an entire police department over single digit percent of problems sure seems like throwing out the baby with the bathwater, a severe over reaction.

Which statistics ?

Do you mean the percentage of police officers who are caught doing what they shouldn't ?
 
Which statistics ?

Do you mean the percentage of police officers who are caught doing what they shouldn't ?

Yes. I heard it reported that there is a 1% to 2% number of all police officers nation wide who abuse their authority, such as in the Floyd case.
Further, a very high percentage of officers responded that one officer would report another officer who was witnessed as doing so.

Disbanding the Minneapolis police department is clearly an over reaction to the size of the problem. We'll have to see if this disbanding doesn't give rise to a 'woke' militia enforcing 'woke' laws and the stupidity of 'woke' public policy in a political partisan manner. It could descend into exactly this all too easily.
 
Waddy, "If the joggers interest is stealing any power tools laying around he better be armed as lawful people tend to frown on that kind of stuff."

Advocating burglars/robbers be armed...Hmmmmm
I wonder why you might prefer an armed criminal ?


Try to keep your story straight.

If the criminals are armed it is justifiable to kill them. You seem to prevaricate on the issue; sometimes you want everybody armed, sometimes nobody armed. make up your mind.
 
Yes. I heard it reported that there is a 1% to 2% number of all police officers nation wide who abuse their authority, such as in the Floyd case.

Yes, that was from Donald Trump, you might want to be more circumspect in the use of your sources

Further, a very high percentage of officers responded that one officer would report another officer who was witnessed as doing so.

Said they'd report or did report ?

The 3 ex cops with Derek Chauvin didn't exactly intervene did they ?


Disbanding the Minneapolis police department is clearly an over reaction to the size of the problem. We'll have to see if this disbanding doesn't give rise to a 'woke' militia enforcing 'woke' laws and the stupidity of 'woke' public policy in a political partisan manner. It could descend into exactly this all too easily.


Why is it an over-reaction ?

How do you know that the disbandment of the MPD isn't exactly what is needed ?
 
If the criminals are armed it is justifiable to kill them. You seem to prevaricate on the issue; sometimes you want everybody armed, sometimes nobody armed. make up your mind.

Even if they're laying on the ground, handcuffed and with your knee on their neck according to some (now ex) cops

In the case of the Brunswick jogger though, he was unarmed, yet vigilantes killed him in cold blood anyway


But you still haven't explained why you advocated (that kind of means "to positively suggest" as on another thread you seemed to think it meant "to give permission") burglars/robbers carrying guns


Personally I would be happier if criminals were not armed, but apparently you think they should be, and I'd like to know why.
 
Even if they're laying on the ground, handcuffed and with your knee on their neck according to some (now ex) cops

In the case of the Brunswick jogger though, he was unarmed, yet vigilantes killed him in cold blood anyway


But you still haven't explained why you advocated (that kind of means "to positively suggest" as on another thread you seemed to think it meant "to give permission") burglars/robbers carrying guns


Personally I would be happier if criminals were not armed, but apparently you think they should be, and I'd like to know why.

Killing a person by kneeling on their neck might be your style, but I prefer my enemies upright and armed. makes for a fair fight.

I never said they should be armed; I said they were better off armed. The best thing is it makes a citizen totally justified in shooting them. I like to keep things legal.
 
Yes, that was from Donald Trump, you might want to be more circumspect in the use of your sources

No. It was not Trump. It was a senior DOJ official. Someone who should be 'in the know' about such things law enforcement specific.
Me thinks you have a bit of 'Trump on the brain'.

Said they'd report or did report ?

It was stated in a non nonsense factual interview, and stated flat as a factual assertion. I too would like a reference or citation.

The 3 ex cops with Derek Chauvin didn't exactly intervene did they ?

No, they did not, and they should have. They'll have to answer for their action, or lack of action, in the criminal court proceedings, according to the prescribed criminal justice process. The prescribed criminal justice process being one of the rights under the Constitution, right?

Why is it an over-reaction ?

How do you know that the disbandment of the MPD isn't exactly what is needed ?

Who you gonna call?

Police establish a security perimeter to allow EMS to work in peace saving lives.
Police establish a security perimeter to allow fire fights to work in peace saving lives and save properties.
Police come when called when there's a crime problem.
Police come when called when there's a disturbance to the peace and to law and order.
Police investigate homicides, and, hopefully, bring killers to justice.

Disbanding a police department, who you gonna call? GhostBusters? Social workers? AntiFa? The local community organizer?
And WTF are they gonna do about it?
It is lunacy and ideology to believe that criminals won't continue to commit crimes.

www.theguardian.com › us-news › jun › minneapolis-c...
2 days ago - The Minneapolis city council has pledged to disband the city's police ... a Minneapolis group whose literature on building a “police-free future” ...

Minneapolis City Council Says It Will Disband Police Force
nymag.com › intelligencer › 2020/06 › minneapolis-city-...

1 day ago - Minneapolis Police officers enforcing an overnight curfew on May 29. ... The group offered no timetable or specifics about what it would do. ... This is the beginning of the process of putting together a “police-free future,” they ...

Any sizable metropolitan area without police is going to get innocent people killed. Kids, teenagers, adults, the aged, the blood of those innocents that are killed will be on the hands of the extremist radicals the vote in, and implement, this “police-free future”, which is sure to fail.

Fer **** man! Common sense would tell you that!
 
You'd think the pro gun crowd would be pro police, but they're almost as bad as #BLM.


I'm pro police. All the police around here are great.
 
That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.
 
That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power.

The new 'woke' democrat platform: 'Guns will be banned and police departments will be defunded. America can rely on Black Panther security guards to handle security matters from now on.

black panther voter suppreswsion.webp
 
No, they did not, and they should have. They'll have to answer for their action, or lack of action, in the criminal court proceedings, according to the prescribed criminal justice process. The prescribed criminal justice process being one of the rights under the Constitution, right?

One of the reasons these donut munching morons get away with murdering people in broad daylight, while being filmed, is because of qualified immunity which was granted to them by the supreme court, and is nowhere to be found in the constitution.
 
Killing a person by kneeling on their neck might be your style, but I prefer my enemies upright and armed. makes for a fair fight.

I prefer not to have enemies

At the very least not enemies I would want to kill....and neither would a want the "protection" of a police force that thought kneeling on a handcuffed man's neck was a good idea or that they preferred suspects to be armed


It must be a fascination with "Die Hard" movies that warped your preferences and also your advice to criminal that they arm themselves

For myself, the aversion to seeing a re-enactment of the "Gunfight at the OK Coral" on a modern day city street is part of the reason I don't want people carrying guns


I never said they should be armed; I said they were better off armed...

Total lie:

If the joggers interest is stealing any power tools laying around he better be armed as lawful people tend to frown on that kind of stuff.


https://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-control/402014-police-officer-right-idea.html?highlight=joggers

Post #13

Explain to me how telling someone/some people that they'd "better be armed" is not a recommendation that they should be.


Liars need good memories.
 
No. It was not Trump. It was a senior DOJ official...me thinks you have a bit of 'Trump on the brain'.


YouTube

Counter about 2:05


It was stated in a non nonsense factual interview...

Yes but, the interview said they'd report or did report ?


No, they did not, and they should have. They'll have to answer for their action...

Yes they should have
Yes they will
The point is that cops don't interfere with other cops much less private citizens who never do (or should we make that almost never do as there's a poster on here who'll now spend hours searching the 'Net looking for just such an instance)


Who you gonna call?

"If there's something strange in you neighborhood,
If there's something weird and it don't look good...
"


Police establish a security perimeter to allow EMS to work in peace saving lives.

That's good:


103592445_10220678230818821_4297174891251920078_n.webp


2 days ago - The Minneapolis city council has pledged to disband the city's police ... a Minneapolis group whose literature on building a “police-free future” ...

I think they should be applauded for that

It doesn't mean, however, that the alternative is zero police, but a ground up, total reorganization of policing


Fer **** man! Common sense would tell you that!

See above

The MPD is rotten to the core, no amount or reorganizing it will work. What's needed for it - and countless other PDs, is disbandment and a total replacement with a new police SERVICE with a radically different ethos.
 
YouTube

Counter about 2:05

Trump isn't a senior DOJ official and that's not where I saw it on the TV. :shrug:

Yes but, the interview said they'd report or did report ?




Yes they should have
Yes they will
The point is that cops don't interfere with other cops much less private citizens who never do (or should we make that almost never do as there's a poster on here who'll now spend hours searching the 'Net looking for just such an instance)

Study that I was reading stated that upwards of 80% of cops would report another cop for instances of abuse or authority, abuse of power, or just plain abuse.

THE ABUSE OF POLICE AUTHORITY
A National Study of Police Officers’ Attitudes


"If there's something strange in you neighborhood,
If there's something weird and it don't look good...
"




That's good:


View attachment 67283434

So 'defund' doesn't mean 'defund' anymore? :roll: That's not much of an argument, redefining language as you and yours see fit. Not buying it.

I think they should be applauded for that

It doesn't mean, however, that the alternative is zero police, but a ground up, total reorganization of policing




See above

The MPD is rotten to the core, no amount or reorganizing it will work. What's needed for it - and countless other PDs, is disbandment and a total replacement with a new police SERVICE with a radically different ethos.

The leftst's are demanding to destroy and remake the police in their own ideological image?
Because all the Democrat cities have worked out so well when driven and ruled by the same ideology?
Here's a hint: Those are the very same cities that burning now.
Systemic racism? Isn't that the accusation in those same cities? So who's fault would that be then? The party that isn't running things in that city? :lamo

The extremist left would just love to have complete control of the 'woke PC police' enforcing their ideology, punishing all others and differing thoughts.
I think not. Not just No! But No ****ing Way In Hell No.

You want to vote for that crap in your city? Have at it. Don't come fleeing from that city and then vote the same crap in my city. Sleep in the bed you've made, don't ruin mine.
 
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psst...your bunker boy doesn't think you need guns...and that he can take them anytime he wants to..

U.S. President Donald Trump said "We're going to take the firearms first and then go to court."

tell me how you think the Trump appointees to the USSC will vote compared to the ones that the Obama-Biden administration appointed on a gun rights case: say a review of a state law that bans firearms that are in common use and are not unusually dangerous as Maryland and California have done.
 
The right wing is worse.

Vote republican this Nov. We don't need idiots in charge who think it is a good thing to disband the police and give money formerly allocated for them to slick organizations claiming to serve black communities only.
 
I prefer not to have enemies

At the very least not enemies I would want to kill....and neither would a want the "protection" of a police force that thought kneeling on a handcuffed man's neck was a good idea or that they preferred suspects to be armed


It must be a fascination with "Die Hard" movies that warped your preferences and also your advice to criminal that they arm themselves

For myself, the aversion to seeing a re-enactment of the "Gunfight at the OK Coral" on a modern day city street is part of the reason I don't want people carrying guns




Total lie:




https://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-control/402014-police-officer-right-idea.html?highlight=joggers

Post #13

Explain to me how telling someone/some people that they'd "better be armed" is not a recommendation that they should be.


Liars need good memories.

So.....down the rabbit hole we go......yeeeeeeehaw!!!!!!

guys who live in their momma's basement don't usually have any enemies, unless it's momma. So I can see your point.

Saying criminals that plan violent crimes against gun toting honest citizens had "better be armed" because they are going to be killed, and we want their deaths justified. But that doesn't mean they "should" be armed. They could give up that life of crime. But they won't.
 
tell me how you think the Trump appointees to the USSC will vote compared to the ones that the Obama-Biden administration appointed on a gun rights case: say a review of a state law that bans firearms that are in common use and are not unusually dangerous as Maryland and California have done.

You didn't address my quote...you deflected...the quote is directly from Trump...care to address it?
 
Vote republican this Nov. We don't need idiots in charge who think it is a good thing to disband the police and give money formerly allocated for them to slick organizations claiming to serve black communities only.

In most cases it could mean expanding the sheriff's department.

We have a Second Amendment and should have no security problems or for-profit prisons in our free States. Don't grab guns, grab gun lovers and Regulate them Well!
 
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