This is what marriage is about...

[CriticalThought]

A good ad from Australia promoting the cause of ending marriage discrimination. The religious right repetitively tries to demonize gays by arguing that being gay is just about sex and that same sex marriage has nothing to do with love and commitment. It is these kinds of ads that we need here in the United States that get right to the heart of the issue.

[video=youtube;_TBd-UCwVAY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_TBd-UCwVAY[/video]

 

[Jetboogieman]

This is nothing but Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian propoganda.

We all know gay people don't have feelings.



In all seriousness though this ad is nothing short of Fantastic, and I don't use that word lightly. Most of the bigots will remain unconvinced of course while those that just wish to stick to their beliefs may be shifted but their principle remains.

People who are ardently anti Gay marriage aren't so because they were born hating gays, and by "ardently" I mean people willing to go to such lengths as pushing false studies showing how gay men are more likely to be pedophiles and all that nonsense, they've just had so much anti-gay rhetoric pumped down their throat since they were young they just don't know any better.

A sad state of affairs.

 

[nota bene]

This is nothing but Pro-Gay, Anti-Christian propoganda.

We all know gay people don't have feelings.



In all seriousness though this ad is nothing short of Fantastic, and I don't use that word lightly. Most of the bigots will remain unconvinced of course while those that just wish to stick to their beliefs may be shifted but their principle remains.

People who are ardently anti Gay marriage aren't so because they were born hating gays, and by "ardently" I mean people willing to go to such lengths as pushing false studies showing how gay men are more likely to be pedophiles and all that nonsense, they've just had so much anti-gay rhetoric pumped down their throat since they were young they just don't know any better.

A sad state of affairs.

Some of those who are "ardently anti-gay marriage" simply believe that marriage, as defined basically throughout human history, means "one man/one woman."

 

[Jetboogieman]

Some of those who are "ardently anti-gay marriage" simply believe that marriage, as defined basically throughout human history, means "one man/one woman."

while those that just wish to stick to their beliefs may be shifted but their principle remains.

Should have used the word "moved" instead of "Shifted" but that's what I would say about the people you're reffering to.

I make it very clear what I, that word "I" mean by "Ardently Anti Gay Marriage".

 

[CriticalThought]

Some of those who are "ardently anti-gay marriage" simply believe that marriage, as defined basically throughout human history, means "one man/one woman."

Whose human history are you talking about? Accounts of same sex marriage go back as far as ancient Rome and span cultures across the globe.

You are misinformed if you believe that the "one man/one woman" definition is how marriage has been practiced throughout history. Serial monogamy and polygamy are more realistic examples of how marriage has been defined throughout history. The "one man/one woman" thing is more of Catholic creation that lasted only for a few hundred years and for the most part began to fall of style with the emergence of Protestants.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Some of those who are "ardently anti-gay marriage" simply believe that marriage, as defined basically throughout human history, means "one man/one woman."

The problem with this argument, though, is that it falls under the "appeal to antiquity" logical fallacy. If one believes it, it is certainly their right to do so, but that doesn't mean it's logical.

 

[Jetboogieman]

The problem with this argument, though, is that it falls under the "appeal to antiquity" logical fallacy. If one believes it, it is certainly their right to do so, but that doesn't mean it's logical.

"Whoever said the human race was logical"

 

[CriticalThought]

Why am I wasting my time? This is going to go the same way as it always does. Some religious right people will make fallacious arguments. I will point it out. They will continue to do so or will ignore my posts. I will get angry and make fun of their inability to think for themselves. They will make snide, inflammatory posts. I will get angry and call them names or do something else I will regret, which will then lead to me getting an infraction.

A never ending vicious cycle in which I struggle vehemently to understand the world view of people who value an artificially constructed view of tradition over the reality of historical tradition.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Why am I wasting my time? This is going to go the same way as it always does. Some religious right people will make fallacious arguments. I will point it out. They will continue to do so or will ignore my posts. I will get angry and make fun of their inability to think for themselves. They will make snide, inflammatory posts. I will get angry and call them names or do something else I will regret, which will then lead to me getting an infraction.

A never ending vicious cycle in which I struggle vehemently to understand the world view of people who value an artificially constructed view of tradition over the reality of historical tradition.

You are exactly correct in how this discussion will go. And I'll probably be the one who infracts you. Look... the arguments against gay marriage are ALL illogical. You and I know this. Those who hold those positions have a right to their lack of logic. Just take comfort in the fact that it IS illogical.

 

[Jerry]

A good ad from Australia promoting the cause of ending marriage discrimination. The religious right repetitively tries to demonize gays by arguing that being gay is just about sex and that same sex marriage has nothing to do with love and commitment. It is these kinds of ads that we need here in the United States that get right to the heart of the issue.

Marriage is about the raising and socializing of children. If this is what you want to do, and your relationship isn't otherwise harmful to anyone, even yourself, then marriage is for you. If this is not what you want to do, then God bless you and may you have a happy and rewarding life, without marriage. Identity groups, such as gay, hetero, race, etc, are not elements to consider when determining if a given relationship fits the purpose and function of marriage.

 

[Whoppletraps]

Marrige is about a natural couple in love staying together for life, not trying to pretend two people with the same paraphilia are equal to normal couples.

 

[roguenuke]

Some of those who are "ardently anti-gay marriage" simply believe that marriage, as defined basically throughout human history, means "one man/one woman."

First of all, prove that it has been defined as "one man/one woman" alone throughout history.

And, then there would be showing how that is a good thing. And why it would be a good thing to keep it that way.

What does marriage do for every single male/female couple, that it can't do for any male/male or female/female couple?

Plus, what about other restrictions that we did have on marriage, that have since been removed due to social changes, including who can marry whom and why people got/get married?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Marrige is about a natural couple in love staying together for life, not trying to pretend two people with the same paraphilia are equal to normal couples.

Define "normal" and "natural".

 

[CriticalThought]

Marriage is about the raising and socializing of children. If this is what you want to do, and your relationship isn't otherwise harmful to anyone, even yourself, then marriage is for you. If this is not what you want to do, then God bless you and may you have a happy and rewarding life, without marriage. Identity groups, such as gay, hetero, race, etc, are not elements to consider when determining if a given relationship fits the purpose and function of marriage.

Jerry, you will never as long as I live get to decide whether or not I get to marry someone. You do not have that power. You may get a vote to decide whether the government will recognize my marriage, and hey, all the power to you in using the government to enforce your view, I don't really care. Marriage to me is a commitment between people to love and care for one another and stay faithful and true to one another. You don't get to decide whether I have that with another person, or whether that is based on if I have kids, or any other factor. All you get is one vote on whether or not such a relationship should be recognized by the government. Clearly you think not because of your own values, and your own particular view of marriage, and that is your life. I'm not going to change your values and I don't really understand your values and so I have no real incentive to care about them. All I care about is having a meaningful relationship, and you don't get to decide how I define that in my life, or how my family gets to define it, or how even my community gets to define it. You only get to choose how you define it and a vote on how the government would define it.

 

[Jerry]

Define "normal" and "natural".

Normal - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

1nor·mal
adj \ˈnȯr-məl\
Definition of NORMAL
1: perpendicular; especially : perpendicular to a tangent at a point of tangency
2a : according with, constituting, or not deviating from a norm, rule, or principle b : conforming to a type, standard,or regular pattern
3: occurring naturally <normal immunity>
4a : of, relating to, or characterized by average intelligence or development b : free from mental disorder : sane
5a of a solution : having a concentration of one gram equivalent of solute per liter b : containing neither basic hydroxyl nor acid hydrogen <normal silver phosphate> c : not associated <normal molecules> d : having a straight-chain structure <normal butyl alcohol>
6 of a subgroup : having the property that every coset produced by operating on the left by a given element is equal to the coset produced by operating on the right by the same element
7: relating to, involving, or being a normal curve or normal distribution <normal approximation to the binomial distribution>
8 of a matrix : having the property of commutativity under multiplication by the transpose of the matrix each of whose elements is a conjugate complex number with respect to the corresponding element of the given matrix
— nor·mal·i·ty \nȯr-ˈma-lə-tē\ noun
— nor·mal·ly \ˈnȯr-mə-lē\ adverb
See normal defined for English-language learners »
See normal defined for kids »
Examples of NORMAL

1. He had a normal childhood.
2. These little setbacks are a normal part of life.
3. a potato twice as big as normal size
4. Despite her illness, she was able to lead a normal life.
5. They had a normal, healthy baby.
6. Normal people don't react that way.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/natural?show=0&t=1322295765

1nat·u·ral
adj \ˈna-chə-rəl, ˈnach-rəl\
Definition of NATURAL
1
: based on an inherent sense of right and wrong <natural justice>
2
a : being in accordance with or determined by nature

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Normal - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary



Natural - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Thank you, Jerry, but I'd prefer that Whoppletraps define it. I want to see what HE thinks it means.

 

[Jerry]

Jerry,

Crit,

you will never as long as I live get to decide whether or not I get to marry someone.

Only so far as the voting booth reaches.

You do not have that power.

What do you mean? I have my voter's registration right here.

You may get a vote to decide whether the government will recognize my marriage, and hey, all the power to you in using the government to enforce your view, I don't really care.

Apparently you DO care.

Marriage to me is a commitment between people to love and care for one another and stay faithful and true to one another.

Oh go sit under a rainbow and write a poem, hippie. We have real families falling apart but you don't care so long as you can have your lover's money. Wow, how ethical :roll:

You don't get to decide whether I have that with another person, or whether that is based on if I have kids, or any other factor.

What do you mean, I vote on issues all the time.

All you get is one vote on whether or not such a relationship should be recognized by the government.

Yep, I get my vote, and donate, and participate in events, and such...maybe not so much this year, but I do as much as 1 person with a life can do.

Clearly you think not because of your own values, and your own particular view of marriage, and that is your life.

Oh right and being gay has absolutely NO impact on your view of marriage, sure :roll: Dude I promise you right now, if you were exactly the same person, only hetero, you would be just like the rest of us and not really care about SSM one way or the other. It's just fun to talk about sometimes, but it has 0 measurable impact so it wouldn't be a deciding issue for you.

I'm not going to change your values and I don't really understand your values and so I have no real incentive to care about them. All I care about is having a meaningful relationship, and you don't get to decide how I define that in my life, or how my family gets to define it, or how even my community gets to define it. You only get to choose how you define it and a vote on how the government would define it.

I don't really care how you define it. Call a car a buss if you want, no skin of my noes. I live in a world where most heteros aren't really married when they say they are and even go to the courthouse to get a fancy piece of paper say so. You really think SSM is going to change any of that? Gays are just adding themselves to the lairs for the sake of getting their lover's money in the hopes they die first.

 

[Jerry]

Thank you, Jerry, but I'd prefer that Whoppletraps define it. I want to see what HE thinks it means.

Oh, you didn't say that, you just needed definitions. Keep the link as a free gift.

If he thinks it means anything different then what the dictionary says, then he's wrong.

 

[Arcana XV]

Why am I wasting my time? This is going to go the same way as it always does. Some religious right people will make fallacious arguments. I will point it out. They will continue to do so or will ignore my posts. I will get angry and make fun of their inability to think for themselves. They will make snide, inflammatory posts. I will get angry and call them names or do something else I will regret, which will then lead to me getting an infraction.

A never ending vicious cycle in which I struggle vehemently to understand the world view of people who value an artificially constructed view of tradition over the reality of historical tradition.

I don't think you're wasting your time. You're doing your part in trying to get people to accept that homosexuality is not a threat to the stability of society. Pretty much the same thing the ad in your OP is doing. People generally fear or instinctively reject what they're not familiar with. We need more people who aren't afraid to come out and speak out and more ads, books, movies, TV shows that portray homosexuals as what the majority actually are: regular people looking for love and happiness.

The shift in the way people view homosexuality is happening all over the world. In great part because people like you are stubborn enough to keep fighting for their rights.

 

[CriticalThought]

Gays are just adding themselves to the lairs for the sake of getting their lover's money in the hopes they die first.

I spent awhile trying to figure out how I should word this reply and I settled on this.

My boyfriend is 100K in debt and I'm 40K in debt. Money is not exactly something either of us really expects from this relationship. Your post gave me the greatest fit of laughter I think I have ever had on this forum and I sincerely thank you for it even though it was probably not your intention.

 

[Whoppletraps]

Define "normal" and "natural".

Now do you want me define them or do you want to know how the definitions apply to couples and marriage?

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Now do you want me define them or do you want to know how the definitions apply to couples and marriage?

I do not believe there is a difference. Normal and natural are normal and natural.

Oh, and cutting to the chase, might I remind you of what you said in another thread:

It doesn't matter if it harms the individual, as long as they're not hurting anybody else it should be legal.

I am the master of ceremonies for DP's favorite game show... Hypocrisy Check!. Wanna play?

 

[Whoppletraps]

Oh, and cutting to the chase, might I remind you of what you said in another thread:



I am the master of ceremonies for DP's favorite game show... Hypocrisy Check!. Wanna play?

I'm not a hypocrite, I think gay marriage should be legal.

But that doesn't mean I agree with it.

 

[spud_meister]

Some of those who are "ardently anti-gay marriage" simply believe that marriage, as defined basically throughout human history, means "one man/one woman."

:lamo For the vast majority of human history marriage has been defined as one man/many women.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

I'm not a hypocrite, I think gay marriage should be legal.

But that doesn't mean I agree with it.

Good to hear. You are one of the few who has won on Hypocrisy Check!.

Spud... tell him about the wonderful prizes that he's won.