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This Is The Year People Find Out That Elections Are A Scam

LowDown

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Trump and Sanders supporters are constantly conflating parties choosing their nominee with the elections process. Party nominations are fundamentally different from local state and national election of representatives and other officials. The parties have the right to use any method they like to pick the nominee. Naturally, they are going to try to pick a nominee who will win, but to try to say that because the nominees are not necessarily picked by a plurality of people who vote in the primaries that the nomination process is rigged or unfair is silly. The parties make the rules and they follow them; it's not necessarily the same process that we use to pick representatives. It has been this way for a long time; people have just not been as aware of it as they are this year.

Trump has very high disapproval numbers in polls and probably won't be able to beat Hillary or Sanders. In other words, there are good reasons for the RNC to want to pick someone else.

In 1976 Republican primaries, Ronald Reagan got the most delegates by a slight margin, but when he went to the RNC he lost to Ford. You didn't see him take all of his supporters and walk off in a huff.
 

reinoe

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Trump and Sanders supporters are constantly conflating parties choosing their nominee with the elections process. Party nominations are fundamentally different from local state and national election of representatives and other officials. The parties have the right to use any method they like to pick the nominee. Naturally, they are going to try to pick a nominee who will win, but to try to say that because the nominees are not necessarily picked by a plurality of people who vote in the primaries that the nomination process is rigged or unfair is silly. The parties make the rules and they follow them; it's not necessarily the same process that we use to pick representatives. It has been this way for a long time; people have just not been as aware of it as they are this year.

Trump has very high disapproval numbers in polls and probably won't be able to beat Hillary or Sanders. In other words, there are good reasons for the RNC to want to pick someone else.

In 1976 Republican primaries, Ronald Reagan got the most delegates by a slight margin, but when he went to the RNC he lost to Ford. You didn't see him take all of his supporters and walk off in a huff.

I wasn't around in 1976 so I don't know all the circumstances when it comes to the how/why of Ronald Reagan losing. However I bet the GOP party members weren't having summits and meetings on how to get Reagan to lose the race and I bet the GOP party members weren't running ads to sabotage Reagan.
 

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Trump and Sanders supporters are constantly conflating parties choosing their nominee with the elections process. Party nominations are fundamentally different from local state and national election of representatives and other officials. The parties have the right to use any method they like to pick the nominee. Naturally, they are going to try to pick a nominee who will win, but to try to say that because the nominees are not necessarily picked by a plurality of people who vote in the primaries that the nomination process is rigged or unfair is silly. The parties make the rules and they follow them; it's not necessarily the same process that we use to pick representatives. It has been this way for a long time; people have just not been as aware of it as they are this year.

Trump has very high disapproval numbers in polls and probably won't be able to beat Hillary or Sanders. In other words, there are good reasons for the RNC to want to pick someone else.

In 1976 Republican primaries, Ronald Reagan got the most delegates by a slight margin, but when he went to the RNC he lost to Ford. You didn't see him take all of his supporters and walk off in a huff.

Picking an "electable" candidate is stupid. If you're going to form a group of people on the basis of political opinion, you should pick a candidate who best represents the views of the party.
 

Velvet Elvis

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We've already seen first-hand what a sham the electoral process is. The RNC and DNC are two thug organizations that conspire and collude against anyone and everyone that doesn't fit their mold. ESPECIALLY the Republicans.

Regardless of Trump, or any other candidate right now. In four years, those two parties will dictate whom we will, or won't vote for. If the leading vote-getter is unfavorable to the party, they'll just sandbag the hell out of him, and prop up whatever puppet they want. Screw you citizen. Your vote counts when WE say it counts. Screw democracy. They've learned well from crony USSR politics.
 

chromium

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This isn't 1976 and donald trump isn't "barely winning" the popular vote. He's ahead by 30%. Politics and particularly securing the nomination is big $ now and so it's more polarized than ever. Ford was also the sitting president so it would've been a bad precedent for him to be unseated by his own party without losing a real election, or to run as a 3rd party which he would've been compelled to. He wasn't on the verge of being impeached like nixon

Also don't forget the individual factor. Donald trump has an ego unmatched in human history and he's also a bully and his supporters extremists, so that is why there could be violence in cleveland

How is it that his supporters are all extremists? Because perhaps unlike 1976, voters today *already* know the primaries are a charade and dislike the party system immensely. The pitiful participation rate has led to an environment where the circus freaks are running the show. When the party says no, you don't get to, because donald trump is unelectable, those freaks are going to deny this and fight back and it's actually the fault of the party elite for trying to rig our 'democracy' in the first place

If the parties don't want to piss anyone off, just skip the nomination process and crown a party monarch like hillary - who bought off *400* superdelegates before the campaigns even started. See how long your party survives then
 

LowDown

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I wasn't around in 1976 so I don't know all the circumstances when it comes to the how/why of Ronald Reagan losing. However I bet the GOP party members weren't having summits and meetings on how to get Reagan to lose the race and I bet the GOP party members weren't running ads to sabotage Reagan.

They thought Reagan was too extreme. Ford people and Reagan people worked the delegates at the convention to get them to switch sides. Ford won, but it was close to begin with.
 

LowDown

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This isn't 1976 and donald trump isn't "barely winning" the popular vote. He's ahead by 30%. Politics and particularly securing the nomination is big $ now and so it's more polarized than ever. Ford was also the sitting president so it would've been a bad precedent for him to be unseated by his own party without losing a real election, or to run as a 3rd party which he would've been compelled to. He wasn't on the verge of being impeached like nixon

Also don't forget the individual factor. Donald trump has an ego unmatched in human history and he's also a bully and his supporters extremists, so that is why there could be violence in cleveland

How is it that his supporters are all extremists? Because perhaps unlike 1976, voters today *already* know the primaries are a charade and dislike the party system immensely. The pitiful participation rate has led to an environment where the circus freaks are running the show. When the party says no, you don't get to, because donald trump is unelectable, those freaks are going to deny this and fight back and it's actually the fault of the party elite for trying to rig our 'democracy' in the first place

If the parties don't want to piss anyone off, just skip the nomination process and crown a party monarch like hillary - who bought off *400* superdelegates before the campaigns even started. See how long your party survives then

Those who hate the establishment hate them for reasons that are often silly and uniformed. They want Congress to do stuff that can't be done or would result in Republicans losing Congress. They hate all compromise and hold it against any representative who tries to work with the other side. They seem to think that the other side can be steamrolled, and that's not possible. So they are angry and frustrated, but it's their own ignorance that has them in such a snit. If Trump is elected then they'll quickly find out he can't get anything done, and boy will they be angry then! It's not a good scene, not at all.

We don't have the political support needed to abolish the IRS, abolish the EPA, reform the tax code. Shutting down the government is impractical and would result in Republicans losing Congress. We don't have enough power to abolish the PPACA. We don't have enough political support to abolish abortion. People need to stop screaming and banging on their high chairs and deal with the situation we have.
 

gdgyva

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Those who hate the establishment hate them for reasons that are often silly and uniformed. They want Congress to do stuff that can't be done or would result in Republicans losing Congress. They hate all compromise and hold it against any representative who tries to work with the other side. They seem to think that the other side can be steamrolled, and that's not possible. So they are angry and frustrated, but it's their own ignorance that has them in such a snit. If Trump is elected then they'll quickly find out he can't get anything done, and boy will they be angry then! It's not a good scene, not at all.

We don't have the political support needed to abolish the IRS, abolish the EPA, reform the tax code. Shutting down the government is impractical and would result in Republicans losing Congress. We don't have enough power to abolish the PPACA. We don't have enough political support to abolish abortion. People need to stop screaming and banging on their high chairs and deal with the situation we have.

i dont know if we "cant" do all of those things

we havent really tried, have we?

especially on things like abolishing the IRS....you dont think John Q Public likes that idea? Of course he/she does....the question is how to do it....and how to simplify the tax code with so many lobbyists pandering to the senate and congress

can you imagine the number of tax cpa's who dont think that is a good idea? or big 6 firms? (or is it big 4 now)

we have a tax code that is 15 inches thick....think about that.....special favor after special favor, after special favor....

dont you think it is time we change a few of these things back?

i sure in the hell do....and will vote for those who will try to do just that
 

reinoe

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Those who hate the establishment hate them for reasons that are often silly and uniformed. They want Congress to do stuff that can't be done or would result in Republicans losing Congress. They hate all compromise and hold it against any representative who tries to work with the other side. They seem to think that the other side can be steamrolled, and that's not possible. So they are angry and frustrated, but it's their own ignorance that has them in such a snit. If Trump is elected then they'll quickly find out he can't get anything done, and boy will they be angry then! It's not a good scene, not at all.

We don't have the political support needed to abolish the IRS, abolish the EPA, reform the tax code. Shutting down the government is impractical and would result in Republicans losing Congress. We don't have enough power to abolish the PPACA. We don't have enough political support to abolish abortion. People need to stop screaming and banging on their high chairs and deal with the situation we have.

Enforcing immigration law, renegotiating our bad trade deals, and refusing to support the funding of "moderate rebels" are neither impossible nor would it result in Republicans losing Congress. Eliminating baseline budgeting is not a losing proposition either. Lastly reforming the tax code is something Dems and Reps could both work on without having to butt heads at all.

Instead you have the establishment fighting a pointless battle to show their hatred of gays and abortion. You've got the establishment wasting time on things nobody cares about like how to give the 1% even more tax breaks. The agenda of the establishment is completely out of touch with what "the base" is demanding.
 

Hawkeye10

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Trump and Sanders supporters are constantly conflating parties choosing their nominee with the elections process. Party nominations are fundamentally different from local state and national election of representatives and other officials. The parties have the right to use any method they like to pick the nominee. Naturally, they are going to try to pick a nominee who will win, but to try to say that because the nominees are not necessarily picked by a plurality of people who vote in the primaries that the nomination process is rigged or unfair is silly. The parties make the rules and they follow them; it's not necessarily the same process that we use to pick representatives. It has been this way for a long time; people have just not been as aware of it as they are this year.

Trump has very high disapproval numbers in polls and probably won't be able to beat Hillary or Sanders. In other words, there are good reasons for the RNC to want to pick someone else.

In 1976 Republican primaries, Ronald Reagan got the most delegates by a slight margin, but when he went to the RNC he lost to Ford. You didn't see him take all of his supporters and walk off in a huff.

First off when the rules are made the week before the convention you cant say " the rules are made and followed",and I dont recall the National Review doing an attack Reagan issue, just for instance.
 

chromium

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Those who hate the establishment hate them for reasons that are often silly and uniformed. They want Congress to do stuff that can't be done or would result in Republicans losing Congress. They hate all compromise and hold it against any representative who tries to work with the other side. They seem to think that the other side can be steamrolled, and that's not possible. So they are angry and frustrated, but it's their own ignorance that has them in such a snit. If Trump is elected then they'll quickly find out he can't get anything done, and boy will they be angry then! It's not a good scene, not at all.

We don't have the political support needed to abolish the IRS, abolish the EPA, reform the tax code. Shutting down the government is impractical and would result in Republicans losing Congress. We don't have enough power to abolish the PPACA. We don't have enough political support to abolish abortion. People need to stop screaming and banging on their high chairs and deal with the situation we have.

i agree the end result would not please them at all if he were elected, but i just gave my assessment of why they are pissed *now* if he wins the delegates by 30% but still doesn't get the nomination

and even that i don't agree with, because he should've run independent if he doesn't want to be at the mercy of republican establishment, same for sanders and the 'superdelegate' charade
 

chromium

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i dont know if we "cant" do all of those things

we havent really tried, have we?

especially on things like abolishing the IRS....you dont think John Q Public likes that idea? Of course he/she does....the question is how to do it....and how to simplify the tax code with so many lobbyists pandering to the senate and congress

can you imagine the number of tax cpa's who dont think that is a good idea? or big 6 firms? (or is it big 4 now)

we have a tax code that is 15 inches thick....think about that.....special favor after special favor, after special favor....

dont you think it is time we change a few of these things back?

i sure in the hell do....and will vote for those who will try to do just that

oh yeah because there's nothing in between the lunacy of abolishing the IRS and simplifying the tax code

john q public would like to not pay taxes only until he finds every road is un-traversable, he is making 30 cents an hour because there's no government to enforce minimum wage, and his kids have no education. The country would become sierra leone in short order except for maybe no ebola
 

LowDown

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Enforcing immigration law, renegotiating our bad trade deals, and refusing to support the funding of "moderate rebels" are neither impossible nor would it result in Republicans losing Congress. Eliminating baseline budgeting is not a losing proposition either. Lastly reforming the tax code is something Dems and Reps could both work on without having to butt heads at all.

Instead you have the establishment fighting a pointless battle to show their hatred of gays and abortion. You've got the establishment wasting time on things nobody cares about like how to give the 1% even more tax breaks. The agenda of the establishment is completely out of touch with what "the base" is demanding.

Republicans would have to have the Presidency to do those things, and that's why they haven't done them so far. And that's what the base is mad about, which is dumb.
 

LowDown

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First off when the rules are made the week before the convention you cant say " the rules are made and followed",and I dont recall the National Review doing an attack Reagan issue, just for instance.

I don't know what you mean about rules being made a week before the convention.
 

reinoe

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Republicans would have to have the Presidency to do those things, and that's why they haven't done them so far. And that's what the base is mad about, which is dumb.

There have been no bills in Congress to do any of the things I'm talking about.
 

LowDown

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There have been no bills in Congress to do any of the things I'm talking about.

What would be the point of passing bills that just get vetoed? They passed bills to ban Obamacare, what, 53 times? It did us no good at all.
 

reinoe

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What would be the point of passing bills that just get vetoed? They passed bills to ban Obamacare, what, 53 times? It did us no good at all.
Instead of passing 60 bills to veto the ACA how about a little balance? 25 bills to veto the ACA, 10 to renegotiate trade deals, 20 to enforce immigration laws, and another 10 to stop arming islamic terrorists in the middle east. A large percentage of Americans like a lot of the ACA so instead of wasting time they should have thrown in some actual governing while they were at it. If OBAMA had rejected all the things I talked about then I guarantee you that the Republicans would have a lot more sympathy with the American people. Instead they kept wasting time with the same bull**** that the American people don't really care about.
 
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