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This is the Army, Mrs. Jones!

MrVicchio said:
A national system that will force people to work for the government.

And Arch enemy makes a joke about it. The battle it would seem, has all ready been half won by Obama.
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Sorry if somebody doesn't take your opinion or that of the Canadian Free Press( a.k.a. canuckinfowars) on this seriously. Just like many don't take to your claims, sorry, your opinion on Obama's citizenship seriously.
 
Will illegal aliens be affected by this bill?

They work tax free, receive welfare, food stamps, WIC, health/dental and college tuition.

Will they have to "volunteer" as well?

The other thing that really isn't being discussed, is the fairness in all of this.

The poor will have to register for national service in order to receive benefits.

The argument during the last election cycle in regard to voter registration, was it would impose financial hardship on those folks to have to provide identification. Will the same hold true for this program?
 
Hatuey said:
Sorry if somebody doesn't take your opinion or that of the Canadian Free Press( a.k.a. canuckinfowars) on this seriously. Just like many don't take to your claims, sorry, your opinion on Obama's citizenship seriously.
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Do you KNOW my opinion, or are you still lost on that?

He's an American citizen.

I think it's fun to WATCH the debate over... WND is all in a tizzy of it. I think there are SOME valid points they are making in regards to the discussion...

So what's so bad about that?
 
MrVicchio said:
Do you KNOW my opinion, or are you still lost on that?
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Yes. That you think Obama is not a citizen.

He's an American citizen.

I think it's fun to WATCH the debate over... WND is all in a tizzy of it. I think there are SOME valid points they are making in regards to the discussion...

So what's so bad about that?
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What valid points? The ones already debunked? Just like the ones about this supposedly American CDR?
 
Hatuey said:
Yes. That you think Obama is not a citizen.



What valid points? The ones already debunked? Just like the ones about this supposedly American CDR?
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I don't see how the latter has been debunked especially considering that Obama and the democrat congress are proposing legislation to institute just that. Don't worry though dear leader is looking out for you.
 
Let me stir the pot a little on this, and let's see what floats up.

To me, this looks a lot like a contract. If you take government money, then you work in order to earn it. If you don't want to work, then you don't have to take the money. Nobody is putting a gun to your head. Am I correct? If not, then please explain where I am misreading this.

A lot of people complained one time that too many people were on welfare, and getting on the government dole without having to contribute. They were called welfare loafers. Remember? Many states, and the Federal government, passed legislation requiring those on welfare to work.

So, if this is a contract, as I am suggesting, then why do you feel that poor people should work for welfare, but middle class kids should be able get a free ride on the taxpayers' dime? Seems strange to me that those who call for those receiving welfare to work would sit back and think it's OK for others to receive government money without having to earn it.

But again, I could be reading this wrong. If I am, then please correct me by showing me where the government is forcing everybody to serve, even those who would not be receiving government money.
 
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danarhea said:
Let me stir the pot a little on this, and let's see what floats up.

To me, this looks a lot like a contract. If you take government money, then you work in order to earn it. If you don't want to work, then you don't have to take the money. Nobody is putting a gun to your head. Am I correct? If not, then please explain where I am misreading this.

A lot of people complained one time that too many people were on welfare, and getting on the government dole without having to contribute. They were called welfare loafers. Remember? Many states, and the Federal government, passed legislation requiring those on welfare to work.

So, if this is a contract, as I am suggesting, then why do you feel that poor people should work for welfare, but middle class kids should be able get a free ride on the taxpayers' dime? Seems strange to me that those who call for those receiving welfare to work would sit back and think it's OK for others to receive government money without having to earn it.

But again, I could be reading this wrong. If I am, then please correct me by showing me where the government is forcing everybody to serve, even those who would not be receiving government money.
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SOCIALISM SOCIALISM SOCIALISM.....Red Flag. Lenin. You know the works.
 
Agent Ferris said:
I don't see how the latter has been debunked especially considering that Obama and the democrat congress are proposing legislation to institute just that. Don't worry though dear leader is looking out for you.
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Do you know what the CDR is? Now show me where this legislation is being forced on all citizens whether they like it or not. Show me where it says that ALL members of our society will be part of this group. Not only that but where they'll have to join what I assume is the Democratic Party. Otherwise your comparison to the CDRs of Cuba is not only dishonest but just plain stupid. This should be tons of fun to watch.
 
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danarhea said:
Let me stir the pot a little on this, and let's see what floats up.

To me, this looks a lot like a contract. If you take government money, then you work in order to earn it. If you don't want to work, then you don't have to take the money. Nobody is putting a gun to your head. Am I correct? If not, then please explain where I am misreading this.

A lot of people complained one time that too many people were on welfare, and getting on the government dole without having to contribute. They were called welfare loafers. Remember? Many states, and the Federal government, passed legislation requiring those on welfare to work.

So, if this is a contract, as I am suggesting, then why do you feel that poor people should work for welfare, but middle class kids should be able get a free ride on the taxpayers' dime? Seems strange to me that those who call for those receiving welfare to work would sit back and think it's OK for others to receive government money without having to earn it.

But again, I could be reading this wrong. If I am, then please correct me by showing me where the government is forcing everybody to serve, even those who would not be receiving government money.
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I wasn't aware that children in elementary school were on welfare let alone old enough to sign a contract.

And are you suggesting that by receiving a welfare check or accepting a student grant that I should be forced to become a life long servant of the state? Sounds a lot like indentured servitude to me.
 
Agent Ferris said:
I wasn't aware that children in elementary school were on welfare let alone old enough to sign a contract.

And are you suggesting that by receiving a welfare check or accepting a student grant that I should be forced to become a life long servant of the state? Sounds a lot like indentured servitude to me.
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Their parents who were on welfare did.

And if you want to go to school, why don't you do what I did? Get a job and work your way through. That's what I did, and it didn't hurt me at all. If you want government money given to you, don't be surprised if there are some terms and conditions that you are going to have to also accept. If you don't want the terms and conditions, then don't take the money.

Government money being given to you is not a right. It is a privilege. There is a difference between rights and privileges.
 
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danarhea said:
Their parents who were on welfare did.
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And? So if my parents owed you money they should be allowed to force me to become your indentured servant for life? I thought libertarians were supposed to be anti-statist. Actually that's not even indentured servitude as I wouldn't even be getting payed, that's what they call slavery.

And if you want to go to school, why don't you do what I did? Get a job and work your way through. That's what I did, and it didn't hurt me at all. If you want government money given to you, don't be surprised if there are some terms and conditions that you are going to have to also accept. If you don't want the terms and conditions, then don't take the money.

Government money being given to you is not a right. It is a privilege. There is a difference between rights and privileges.
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So then you agree that it's a good policy to bribe people to become a lifelong member of the party . . . er um servant of the state. All I want to know is why is Obama building an army? One wonders when one of the tasks of these "volunteers" will be to report counterrevolutionary activity.
 
Arch Enemy said:
You, sir, are only providing that in the AGW realm. ....
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Wait. He's doing what?
I get the civil part. What was that other thing? Critical something?


This thread is moving to Conspiracy Theories soon, right?
 
danarhea said:
Let me stir the pot a little on this, and let's see what floats up.

To me, this looks a lot like a contract. If you take government money, then you work in order to earn it. If you don't want to work, then you don't have to take the money. Nobody is putting a gun to your head. Am I correct? If not, then please explain where I am misreading this.

A lot of people complained one time that too many people were on welfare, and getting on the government dole without having to contribute. They were called welfare loafers. Remember? Many states, and the Federal government, passed legislation requiring those on welfare to work.

So, if this is a contract, as I am suggesting, then why do you feel that poor people should work for welfare, but middle class kids should be able get a free ride on the taxpayers' dime? Seems strange to me that those who call for those receiving welfare to work would sit back and think it's OK for others to receive government money without having to earn it.

But again, I could be reading this wrong. If I am, then please correct me by showing me where the government is forcing everybody to serve, even those who would not be receiving government money.
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I'll tell you what I don't like about that. Where did the government get that money? It's not really their money, it's ours; we gave it to them and gave them jobs to do with it. It comes down to the same problem I have with the drinking age laws and all the forms of federal blackmail the government participates in with my money to get me to behave in the manner they want. We're gonna give Pell grants and other scholastic aid...fine, let's do it. Base it on scholastic achievment and progress and that's it. No government service, no signing away your first born to the Congress, or anything else. Make the system, put in reasonable and connected restrictions and requirements and get on with it.

I'm a huge fan of contract, but I'm also a huge fan of limiting and regulating the government. There are programs I'm happy to pay for, but I don't want the government using those programs as bargaining chips...or for use with ultimatums.
 
MDM said:
Wait. He's doing what?
I get the civil part. What was that other thing? Critical something?


This thread is moving to Conspiracy Theories soon, right?
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I will acknowledge that Mr. V is doing a good job showing, regardless of validity or what I think of the subject, the other side to the AGW argument.
 
Agent Ferris said:
And? So if my parents owed you money they should be allowed to force me to become your indentured servant for life? I thought libertarians were supposed to be anti-statist. Actually that's not even indentured servitude as I wouldn't even be getting payed, that's what they call slavery.



So then you agree that it's a good policy to bribe people to become a lifelong member of the party . . . er um servant of the state. All I want to know is why is Obama building an army? One wonders when one of the tasks of these "volunteers" will be to report counterrevolutionary activity.
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You don't have to take the bribe. If you do, don't blame them. Blame yourself.
 
It's really sad that what could actually be an interesting debate about entitlement programs was brought up with a poorly written right wing paranoid op-ed (in breaking news no less)

You'd think regulars here would be aware of BN rule #2
2. Independent commentary and OpEd pieces are not allowed in *BN*.
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cascadian said:
It's really sad that what could actually be an interesting debate about entitlement programs was brought up with a poorly written right wing paranoid op-ed (in breaking news no less)

You'd think regulars here would be aware of BN rule #2
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I just found a source talking about it... I tried the MSM... they didn't have anything to say on the matter to be honest.
 
MrVicchio said:
Okay...

Let's debate then.

You're 18, you cannot afford to pay for your college, you want a loan, one of those Fannie Mae Student loans. Now you have to serve a government organization or... hey you don't get the loan.

That's forcing people to either do what the government wants, or they don't go to college... and ya know Obama want's to make sure everyone gets a bachelors degree right?

So you tell me friend, how is this right? Put everything else aside, how is this a good thing?
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It's not.

That was easy.
 
Reverend_Hellh0und said:
Nonsense, one socialist magazine editor bloviated some nonsense.
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Would you consider American "politics as usual" to be politics of Socialism?

or how about a President who really owned by Wall Street, is that socialism?
 
danarhea said:
Let me stir the pot a little on this, and let's see what floats up.

To me, this looks a lot like a contract. If you take government money, then you work in order to earn it. If you don't want to work, then you don't have to take the money. Nobody is putting a gun to your head. Am I correct? If not, then please explain where I am misreading this.
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Nah, you're reading it just fine.

The government interferes in the cost of college tuition, driving it up.

The government raises taxes on people making it harder for them to put their own kids through college.

The government gives money to students to go to the colleges the governments actions made unaffordable for them what was previously affordable to earlier generations.

The younger generations see the government as their savior, and elect a Messiah.

The Messiah says that the people who want all this glorious graft from the government have to sign away their freedoms to be eligible for money the government's previous actions made necessary what earlier generations were able to find it possible, difficult but possible, to do without indenturing their children into laborious servitude.

The people that voted for the Messiah are supportive of this notion, since they themselves will be done with college before the men come with the iron collars for the college students.

danarhea said:
A lot of people complained one time that too many people were on welfare, and getting on the government dole without having to contribute. They were called welfare loafers. Remember? Many states, and the Federal government, passed legislation requiring those on welfare to work.
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Yep, remember that. The correct solution was to end the unconstitutional welfare programs.

College tuition programs are unconstitutional welfare programs disguised as unconstitutional education programs.

The important word is "unconstitutional".

danarhea said:
But again, I could be reading this wrong. If I am, then please correct me by showing me where the government is forcing everybody to serve, even those who would not be receiving government money.
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Then force them to serve in a useful field, in Santa Maria picking strawberries and thus deterring the invasion of the United Staes by Mexico.
 
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