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There was no "missing minute" in Epstein jail video, government source says

Allan said:
You're assuming only one person involved.

1. The guards turn the camera off.
2. They go into his cell and cuff him. He compiles because he's used to it.
3. They hang him.

Less than 2 minutes.
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I'm skeptical that this could be accomplished in under 2 minutes, and the video gap is 1 minute. Plus, they would have had to uncuff him and flee the cell before Epstein was even unconscious. (It takes longer than a minute to die from asphyxiation.) And with his hands uncuffed, he would have easily been able to free himself, given the position he was found in. And if they had left him cuffed as he struggled to breathe, there would have been evidence of this.

It's fun to imagine how it might have been done, but it's just way too far-fetched a scenario. It's simply not possible that Epstein was murdered in his cell. It was about as clear-cut a suicide as you can get.
 
lwf said:
I'm skeptical that this could be accomplished in under 2 minutes, and the video gap is 1 minute. Plus, they would have had to uncuff him and flee the cell before Epstein was even unconscious. (It takes longer than a minute to die from asphyxiation.) And with his hands uncuffed, he would have easily been able to free himself, given the position he was found in. And if they had left him cuffed as he struggled to breathe, there would have been evidence of this.

It's fun to imagine how it might have been done, but it's just way too far-fetched a scenario. It's simply not possible that Epstein was murdered in his cell. It was about as clear-cut a suicide as you can get.
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Again, I don't disagree with you, but your saying 'he would have easily been able to free himself' made me wonder 'would he?' Sad soft boy quite likely to be zonked out on antidepressants? So I googled 'Jeffrey Epstein autopsy toxicology report'. Data protection has removed results here in Europe, so you might fare better, 'cos all I got was 2 2019 articles about the medical examiner awaiting the toxicology report before making his determination. Possibly the family requested it be withheld? It would be interesting to know.
 
Sven Karma said:
I don't disagree with you, but (leaving the additional minutes aside) the fact (known to quite a few people if the cctvs have been there since 1999) that there would always be a missing minute of footage is a pretty solid window of opportunity. A fit man can run 400 or so metres in a minute and I'm not going to google 'how to kill a man in a minute and make it look like suicide' but as CTs go, the logistics don't seem insurmountable - for a pro.
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Not sure why people are even talking about killing someone in a minute, the video does not show the entrance to Epstein's cell door, only the common area leading to it.

1753825713372.webp
 
Sven Karma said:
Again, I don't disagree with you, but your saying 'he would have easily been able to free himself' made me wonder 'would he?' Sad soft boy quite likely to be zonked out on antidepressants? So I googled 'Jeffrey Epstein autopsy toxicology report'. Data protection has removed results here in Europe, so you might fare better, 'cos all I got was 2 2019 articles about the medical examiner awaiting the toxicology report before making his determination. Possibly the family requested it be withheld? It would be interesting to know.
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He was found in a kneeling position with the bedsheets wrapped around his neck and draped around the top bunk in a manner consistent with voluntary suicide. All he would have needed to do to free himself if he were put there against his will would have been to stand up.

Here is the investigation conclusion:
https://oig.justice.gov/sites/default/files/reports/23-085.pdf

On August 11, 2019, the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner performed an autopsy and determined the cause of death was hanging and the manner of death was suicide. Blood toxicology tests did not reveal any medications or illegal substances in Epstein’s system. The Medical Examiner who performed the autopsy told the OIG that Epstein’s injuries were consistent with suicide by hanging and that there was no evidence of defensive wounds that would be expected if his death had been a homicide. Epstein did not have marks on his hands, broken fingernails or debris under them, contusions to his knuckles that would have evidenced a fight, or, other than an abrasion on his arm likely due to convulsing from hanging, bruising on his body.
 
Airyaman said:
Not sure why people are even talking about killing someone in a minute, the video does not show the entrance to Epstein's cell door, only the common area leading to it.

View attachment 67582252
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I didn't realize that. So the video footage is no longer relevant?
 
Airyaman said:
Bondi lied to us?!? I can't imagine anyone from the Trump admin lying!

/s

So it seems the FBI has the full video, and it's not missing the minute. Well, almost 3 minutes, but let's not get too far ahead of things.

www.cbsnews.com

There was no "missing minute" in Epstein jail video, government source says

FBI officials promised raw, unaltered video to quell speculation about Epstein's suicide.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

View attachment 67582217

Maybe there is nothing in that missing minute (or more). But why cut it? Why then lie about the missing minute.

Just more cover-up.
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Yeah, I already knew there was no missing minute in that video because Pam Bondi insisted there was.

I generally follow the rule that if somebody from the Federal Government makes a claim, always assume that the opposite is true.

Mark
 
lwf said:
He was found in a kneeling position with the bedsheets wrapped around his neck and draped around the top bunk in a manner consistent with voluntary suicide. All he would have needed to do to free himself if he were put there against his will would have been to stand up.

Here is the investigation conclusion:
https://oig.justice.gov/sites/default/files/reports/23-085.pdf

On August 11, 2019, the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner performed an autopsy and determined the cause of death was hanging and the manner of death was suicide. Blood toxicology tests did not reveal any medications or illegal substances in Epstein’s system. The Medical Examiner who performed the autopsy told the OIG that Epstein’s injuries were consistent with suicide by hanging and that there was no evidence of defensive wounds that would be expected if his death had been a homicide. Epstein did not have marks on his hands, broken fingernails or debris under them, contusions to his knuckles that would have evidenced a fight, or, other than an abrasion on his arm likely due to convulsing from hanging, bruising on his body.
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Thanks! I am now wondering - between 'found in a kneeling position' and an abrasion 'likely due to convulsing from hanging' how much abrasion-causing convulsing you can do before you would cease to be in a kneeling position.
 
lwf said:
Sounds like the cuts must have happened during different time periods. It's certainly odd that there would be missing footage, but a gap of 1 minute and 1 second at the end of the night, and a gap of 1 minute and 52 seconds at some other time is hardly enough time to commit a clean murder without leaving a trace, dress it up as a suicide, and escape without being caught on any of the other working cameras in the prison. Even if it were 3 consecutive minutes, this is still not enough time to pull off such a feat.
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Haven't you seen John Wick?
 
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Sven Karma said:
Thanks! I am now wondering - between 'found in a kneeling position' and an abrasion 'likely due to convulsing from hanging' how much abrasion-causing convulsing you can do before you would cease to be in a kneeling position.
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I would think to strangle yourself the way he did with a bedsheet tied around an upper bunk, you would need to have a lot of force on your neck. Enough to cause an abrasion for sure. Most likely he hung himself in more of a crouched position with very little play in the sheets where he could put maximum force on his neck by relaxing his legs, and after he went limp the force of gravity and the natural give in the bedsheets gradually lowered him until his knees hit the floor. Either way, he likely could have aborted the attempt at any time by standing up. This is, I understand, a common way to hang oneself.
 
lwf said:
I would think to strangle yourself the way he did with a bedsheet tied around an upper bunk, you would need to have a lot of force on your neck. Enough to cause an abrasion for sure. Most likely he hung himself in more of a crouched position with very little play in the sheets where he could put maximum force on his neck by relaxing his legs, and after he went limp the force of gravity and the natural give in the bedsheets gradually lowered him until his knees hit the floor. Either way, he likely could have aborted the attempt at any time by standing up. This is, I understand, a common way to hang oneself.
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Perhaps because a childhood friend accidentally hung himself in a tree I've never really thought about the mechanics of suicide by hanging, let alone in an enclosed space, but it seems kinda slapdash design (even for the 90s) to let the cells in your secure unit be so easy to carry out such a common method of self-hanging in.
 
Allan said:
You're assuming only one person involved.

1. The guards turn the camera off.
2. They go into his cell and cuff him. He compiles because he's used to it.
3. They hang him.

Less than 2 minutes.
Click to expand...
The video was spliced together. They had as long as they wanted.
 
lwf said:
I would think to strangle yourself the way he did with a bedsheet tied around an upper bunk, you would need to have a lot of force on your neck. Enough to cause an abrasion for sure. Most likely he hung himself in more of a crouched position with very little play in the sheets where he could put maximum force on his neck by relaxing his legs, and after he went limp the force of gravity and the natural give in the bedsheets gradually lowered him until his knees hit the floor. Either way, he likely could have aborted the attempt at any time by standing up. This is, I understand, a common way to hang oneself.
Click to expand...

1753831772462.webp
 
Airyaman said:
Bondi lied to us?!? I can't imagine anyone from the Trump admin lying!

/s

So it seems the FBI has the full video, and it's not missing the minute. Well, almost 3 minutes, but let's not get too far ahead of things.

www.cbsnews.com

There was no "missing minute" in Epstein jail video, government source says

FBI officials promised raw, unaltered video to quell speculation about Epstein's suicide.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com

View attachment 67582217

Maybe there is nothing in that missing minute (or more). But why cut it? Why then lie about the missing minute.

Just more cover-up.
Click to expand...
It could go other way. Those under risk of exposure have a lot of power most likely. They could pull off faking video.
 
Airyaman said:
Check this article out. I'm not saying anything other than it get's fishier by the day.

www.cbsnews.com

CBS News investigation of Jeffrey Epstein jail video reveals new discrepancies

A CBS News investigation found discrepancies between the government's description of the Jeffrey Epstein jail video and what the video shows.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
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If the video doesn't actually show the entrance to Epstein's cell and there are other entrances an intruder could have come and gone through, then I'm marginally more lukewarm to the possibility that it wasn't a run-of-the-mill suicide, but the evidence that it was suicide is compelling.

If I am to believe Epstein was murdered, then I have to believe that the murderer was able to commit the murder without leaving a single trace or witness, move into and out of the prison without being captured on any of the other dozens of functioning cameras, and that whoever financed it was willing to take a ridiculously massive risk to kill a man who never once mentioned having any dirt on anyone. These are all extremely unlikely. It's tempting to get caught up in possibilities, but unless you look at the whole picture, you run the risk of going down a conspiracy theory rabbit hole where your conclusion is predetermined and any small piece of evidence you come across that could even in the most oblique way be interpreted as confirming your conclusion only adds to how sure you are that your conclusion is correct, and any evidence that suggests otherwise is explained away as "coverup."

And why didn't they kill Maxwell too?
 
lwf said:
If the video doesn't actually show the entrance to Epstein's cell and there are other entrances an intruder could have come and gone through, then I'm marginally more lukewarm to the possibility that it wasn't a run-of-the-mill suicide, but the evidence that it was suicide is compelling.

If I am to believe Epstein was murdered, then I have to believe that the murderer was able to commit the murder without leaving a single trace or witness, move into and out of the prison without being captured on any of the other dozens of functioning cameras, and that whoever financed it was willing to take a ridiculously massive risk to kill a man who never once mentioned having any dirt on anyone. These are all extremely unlikely. It's tempting to get caught up in possibilities, but unless you look at the whole picture, you run the risk of going down a conspiracy theory rabbit hole where your conclusion is predetermined and any small piece of evidence you come across that could even in the most oblique way be interpreted as confirming your conclusion only adds to how sure you are that your conclusion is correct, and any evidence that suggests otherwise is explained away as "coverup."

And why didn't they kill Maxwell too?
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It could easily be a multi-person job.

Maxwell wasn't arrested until 6/2020. Epstein was unalived in 8/1999.
 
Allan said:
Initially I thought the missing minute was just a CT reaction. Then it became 3 minutes and I got a little more suspicious.

Now I'm convinced - Epstein was murdered in prison.
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Lets say thats the case, why would Bondi or anyone else, cover that up?
 
Airyaman said:
It could easily be a multi-person job.
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That would make it even more unlikely to my mind. The more people involved in a conspiracy, the more likely information is to leak out. What did Benjamin Franklin say about keeping a secret?
 
lwf said:
That would make it even more unlikely to my mind. The more people involved in a conspiracy, the more likely information is to leak out. What did Benjamin Franklin say about keeping a secret?
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Perhaps. We may never know or it could come out next week. Someone is leaking stuff.
 
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Fletch said:
Lets say thats the case, why would Bondi or anyone else, cover that up?
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That’s the million dollar question isn’t it? None of what they are doing makes rational sense.
 
TangoNoCash said:
That’s the million dollar question isn’t it? None of what they are doing makes rational sense.
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The videos have existed for 6 years. Which means Garland and Wray and likely other members of the DoJ have seen what is supposedly missing. If those videos showed the killers--which either had to be guards or other inmates, why cover for them? If the tapes were chopped up by Bondi then Garland and Wray could testify that the missing pieces were they when they were in charge. And if they were there when they were in charges, then they know what those missing minutes show. We dont need to call in Columbo to figure out what happened here. Garland, Wray and Bondi know everything.
 
Fletch said:
The videos have existed for 6 years. Which means Garland and Wray and likely other members of the DoJ have seen what is supposedly missing. If those videos showed the killers--which either had to be guards or other inmates, why cover for them? If the tapes were chopped up by Bondi then Garland and Wray could testify that the missing pieces were they when they were in charge. And if they were there when they were in charges, then they know what those missing minutes show. We dont need to call in Columbo to figure out what happened here. Garland, Wray and Bondi know everything.
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It may not show any killers but it could show something they might not be able to explain. So better to remove the controversial part and make up some story of how the video resets every night.
 
Airyaman said:
It may not show any killers but it could show something they might not be able to explain. So better to remove the controversial part and make up some story of how the video resets every night.
Click to expand...
What could it possibly show that would need to be removed?
 
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