There’s a knock at the door. It’s the Pronoun Police.

[Antiwar]

Quote:​

​

2020 election fraud investigation​

This group [WILL] spent ten months investigating Donald T****'s claims of widespread election fraud in the 2020 U.S. presidential election. WILL found no evidence of widespread fraud.

Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Antiwar]

Folks, if a trans girl is followed around by a pack of students and they’re taunting “You are a boy. You are a boy …” then that is clearly harassment not because of incorrect pronoun use but because of the willful act of badgering a fellow student to the point of causing serious emotional distress. It is no different than if the taunts were staying “You are a girl. You are a girl,” i.e. harassing with the “correct” pronoun.

There is no evidence, however, that such taunting was done here. The original claim, I believe, makes no mention of it.

Your thread lacks information.

 

[donhughesmusic]

Why would my answer be at all relevant to this discussion? Do I need to have a close family member among the millions slaughtered by Marxist regimes to be concerned about Marxism?

You didn't quote my entire post. I won't continue this until you quote the entire post and address that comment based on the context of the post, which is that the younger generation have never experienced Marxism, but they have experienced other atrocities that are happening as we speak.

 

[Antiwar]

Quotes:

The Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty (WILL) is a nonprofit conservative law firm based in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.



In 2016, WILL announced the launch of the Center for Competitive Federalism, a national effort to bring lawsuits and conduct research to promote state sovereignty.



In September 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic in Wisconsin, WILL filed lawsuits to stop a face mask mandate in Wisconsin.

Wisconsin Institute for Law and Liberty - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[AJG]

So does the trauma from nonstop harassment - that sticks with you, too.

I don't know if that's what happened but the reporting seems pretty sloppy, which makes me skeptical. There seems to be mostly one side of the story being told here.

Again I agree with you and I am also skeptical of the article, and I apologize if it appeared otherwise. A bunch of kids being charged with sexual harassment for using incorrect pronouns is certainly headline worthy, and I'm sure for many outlets creating juicy clickbait headlines ranks higher than actually doing your homework and reporting the facts. If it turns out what's being reported is accurate and there isn't anything more to this story, then I think pressing sexual harassment charges is pretty heavy handed. If it turns out otherwise... then I guess we'll see.

 

[NatMorton]

Your thread lacks information.

If you believe my assertion is wrong you’re welcome to provide your own evidence to counter it.

 

[NatMorton]

You didn't quote my entire post. I won't continue this until you quote the entire post and address that comment based on the context of the post, which is that the younger generation have never experienced Marxism, but they have experienced other atrocities that are happening as we speak.

Looks like you won’t be continuing here. Have a nice day.

 

[Antiwar]

If someone can find some useful information about this case, instead of The Blaze, Daily Caller, and right-biased news blurbs- that would be helpful.

 

[NatMorton]

If someone can find some useful information about this case, instead of The Blaze, Daily Caller, and right-biased news blurbs- that would be helpful.

Google is your friend.

 

[Antiwar]

If you believe my assertion is wrong you’re welcome to provide your own evidence to counter it.

Chuckle.

I sad that is where this is heading if the trans Stasi get their way.

I hope you feel better, soon.

 

[Antiwar]

Google is your friend.

Glenn Beck is yours.

 

[Antiwar]

The conservative perpetual victim warning system is aBlaze. They have reported on a case while presenting very few (none, really) details, and ran with it (scissors in hands). American Stinker has an extra stinky farticle posted on their revenue generating website. It ends with this fecal nugget, which is the same tactic that "Nat" tried to float- blame the school district of doing what the kids (probably) did:

Quote: "The only quibble I have with the letter is that it fails to identify by name the music teacher who started this whole process. Everyone involved in leftist bullying needs to be named and sued."

A Wisconsin school charges three 8th-graders with sexual harassment

The Kiel Area School District (KASD), a small district in Wisconsin, made national news on Friday for a very bad reason: the middle school filed a Title IX sexual harassment claim against three eighth-graders for the

www.americanthinker.com

 

[multivita-man]

Even if it rises to the level of harrassment that we need to be concerned out - and it’s not clear that name-calling does - it is not sexual discrimination so it is not a Title IX issue.

Sex-based Harassment

Title IX of the Education Amendments of 1972 (Title IX) prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex in all education programs and activities operated by recipients of federal funds, including colleges, universities, and public school districts.

www2.ed.gov

Title IX requires schools to take steps to prevent and remedy two forms of sex-based harassment: sexual harassment (including sexual violence) and gender-based harassment Sexual harassment is unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature. It includes unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal, nonverbal, or physical conduct of a sexual nature. Sexual violence is a form of sexual harassment. Sexual violence, as OCR uses the term, refers to physical sexual acts perpetrated against a person’s will or where a person is incapable of giving consent. A number of different acts fall into the category of sexual violence, including rape, sexual assault, sexual battery, sexual abuse, and sexual coercion.

Title IX also prohibits gender-based harassment, which is unwelcome conduct based on a student’s sex, harassing conduct based on a student’s failure to conform to sex stereotypes.

I've dealt with Title IX a lot. Quite familiar with it. Gender-based harassment is illegal. It's also just plain old fashioned 'being a dick'.

So, don't do it. Don't condone it, either.

 

[CaughtInThe]

I believe these charges were subsequently dropped, but consider it a sign of the times. This is where the trans ideologues want to take us: criminal prosecution for using the “wrong” pronouns:

Kiel 8th-graders accused of using ‘incorrect pronouns’, law firm demands district to dismiss complaints

KIEL, Wis. (WFRV) – A Wisconsin-based law firm is asking the Kiel Area School District to drop the complaints against three eighth-grade students who are accused of calling a classmate by the…

www.wearegreenbay.com

Or the abortion police.

 

[Antiwar]

"The PEMA camps are coming! The PEMA camps are coming!"

"P" stands for pronoun.

 

[Excast]

I believe these charges were subsequently dropped, but consider it a sign of the times. This is where the trans ideologues want to take us: criminal prosecution for using the “wrong” pronouns:

Kiel 8th-graders accused of using ‘incorrect pronouns’, law firm demands district to dismiss complaints

KIEL, Wis. (WFRV) – A Wisconsin-based law firm is asking the Kiel Area School District to drop the complaints against three eighth-grade students who are accused of calling a classmate by the…

www.wearegreenbay.com

You identify as a male. If several members of the forum started referring to you by she/her and were clearly doing so to annoy you, what do you believe your response/the response of the moderators on the forum here would be?

 

[multivita-man]

Again I agree with you and I am also skeptical of the article, and I apologize if it appeared otherwise. A bunch of kids being charged with sexual harassment for using incorrect pronouns is certainly headline worthy, and I'm sure for many outlets creating juicy clickbait headlines ranks higher than actually doing your homework and reporting the facts. If it turns out what's being reported is accurate and there isn't anything more to this story, then I think pressing sexual harassment charges is pretty heavy handed. If it turns out otherwise... then I guess we'll see.

Just to be clear, I'd argue that for the feds to get involved in a largely local setting involving kids, the situation would have to be substantially bad. But I suspect that this is what the article is not telling us. My suspicion is that the school was asked to stop gender-based bullying and probably told the kid and his parents to "man up".

Stories like this kinda like that infamous lady who sued McDonald's for spilling coffee on herself. It seemed like an outrage that was the butt of jokes. What the initial AM newsies didn't say, though, was that this lady had been served scalding hot coffee capable of destroying her flesh and had asked for medical assistance and assistance of any kind, and nobody really helped her.

 

[Captain Adverse]

I've dealt with Title IX a lot. Quite familiar with it. Gender-based harassment is illegal. It's also just plain old fashioned 'being a dick'.

So, don't do it. Don't condone it, either.

I agree that pro-active "harassment" as in following someone around calling them names, messing with their school lockers and/or their property, ganging up and bullying, etc. are all forbidden acts of harassment.

However, refusing to adhere to someone's "preferred pronouns" is not harassment.

You can suggest to me how you'd like to be addressed. Out of common courtesy I might just do so.

If I refuse, then your options are to simply not associate with me, refuse to do business with me, etc..

However, you cannot compel me to conform to your demands on my freedom of expression by requiring me to "speak" as you so wish.

It is not me harassing YOU, it is me exercising my freedom of speech.

 

[multivita-man]

You are trying to move the goal posts. The chargers were incorrect pronoun use as itself a form of harassment. Not harassment that happened to use incorrect pronouns.

No goalposts were moved; I just educated you on what constitutes 'harassment'. I'm not even declaring that the allegations, whatever they are, can be substantiated.

If someone just misuses a pronoun once in a while that's one thing, but if someone is repeatedly and deliberately using pronouns in an obviously mocking manner, particularly if the intent is to cause embarrassment and emotional upset in front of their peers, that actually could be considered textbook harassment under Title IX.

Again, that the case was quickly and quietly withdrawn is a strong indication there were not mitigating circumstances.

Not necessarily so. There could be other reasons that such cases are withdrawn, namely the lack of cooperation by the initial complainant.

 

[multivita-man]

I agree that pro-active "harassment" as in following someone around calling them names, messing with their school lockers and/or their property, ganging up and bullying, etc. are all forbidden acts of harassment.

However, refusing to adhere to someone's "preferred pronouns" is not harassment.

I would probably agree, other conditions being the same. Whether something constitutes harassment really is a highly context-specific discussion that I doubt any of us are in a position to really determine one way or the other.

 

[nota bene]

I have a feeling there's a lot more to this story than pronouns. But cool headlines, bro - certainly got someone's attention.



What if someone is transgender, makes it clear what pronouns they want to use, and then becomes the object of nonstop ridicule? And what if this has been brought to the teacher's attention, and the teacher did nothing? What if this has been brought to the administration's attention, and the administration did nothing? If the intent is to harass, that's harassment, and not just a case of "Pass it to him, er, they."

The easy solution is to show each individual respect by using the preferred singular pronoun, either he/him or she/her, depending. If you're a transsexual man, I will use "he"; if you're a transsexual woman, I will use "she." But what I will never do is use "they" for one individual and this is (1) because I can count, and (2) using a plural pronoun when a singular one is required is needlessly confusing, particularly to second-language speakers.

 

[donhughesmusic]

The easy solution is to show each individual respect by using the preferred singular pronoun, either he/him or she/her, depending. If you're a transsexual man, I will use "he"; if you're a transsexual woman, I will use "she." But what I will never do is use "they" for one individual and this is (1) because I can count, and (2) using a plural pronoun when a singular one is required is needlessly confusing, particularly to second-language speakers.

Its easy. Use the person's name. I have a trans person in my family. I don't use him/her/they/it/ whatever pronoun is in effect. I use (name withheld). Makes things a lot easier.

 

[nota bene]

Its easy. Use the person's name. I have a trans person in my family. I don't use him/her/they/it/ whatever pronoun is in effect. I use (name withheld). Makes things a lot easier.

That's often the best solution. Sometimes, however, it makes communication stilted and awkward. If it's just a sentence or two, no problem; if it's a lengthy discussion, it can be.

 

[donhughesmusic]

That's often the best solution. Sometimes, however, it makes communication stilted and awkward. If it's just a sentence or two, no problem; if it's a lengthy discussion, it can be.

I could care less how awkward it may sound. I'm not putting myself in that position if I accidentally slip up even once.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Its easy. Use the person's name. I have a trans person in my family. I don't use him/her/they/it/ whatever pronoun is in effect. I use (name withheld). Makes things a lot easier.

That is often a reasonable solution. Even to the form of an acceptable nickname provided by the person.

The easy solution is to show each individual respect by using the preferred singular pronoun, either he/him or she/her, depending. If you're a transsexual man, I will use "he"; if you're a transsexual woman, I will use "she." But what I will never do is use "they" for one individual and this is (1) because I can count, and (2) using a plural pronoun when a singular one is required is needlessly confusing, particularly to second-language speakers.

I, myself, tend to take the polite course and simply address someone as they would like to, within reason.

But I agree with you Nota, in that the usage should conform to SOME standard of reasonableness.

They/Them, We/Us, or in extreme cases literally "fantasy" identities like pixies, orcs, rainbow ponies, etc., and howsoever they seek to be referred to...is a bit much. (With the exception of attendance at some "fantasy fair/ Cos-play)" gathering.)