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Thedy were just following orders!!!!!!!!!

independentusa said:
57 Buffalo officers resign from Emergency Response Team in response to officers' suspension | TheHill
Where have we heard that "they were just following orders" before. First they push a 75 year old man to the ground where he hits his head so hard he is bleeding out his ears and though one of the police tried to bend down to help he was pulled away. The man is now in the hospital in serious condition. Now 57 of the cops have dropped out of the emergency response team in protest because the two who did the deed where suspended. And the only thing that their union could say is that they were following orders. First, as we saw after WWII, that is no excuse for wrong doing. Second, were they given orders to push old men to the ground and leave them when they could tell the man was in trouble. I would have liked to see those orders and have gotten them in writing. And people wonder why so many others do not trust the police!!! The city ought to just fire all of them and go out and hire others.
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Liberals are getting exactly what they should get. Their cities are burning to the ground, businesses that serve blacks and even owned by some blacks are getting vandalized and looted and now their police departments are quitting. Only idiots would want to be police officers. The cities can pay the price for their own liberal policies.
 
Variant said:
OK, so we're on the same page. Good.
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Believe me I am no friend of the police. However we ask them to do conflicting things they are not capable of. Its unreasonable to not expect there to be mistakes or misjudgments or plain sutpidity in the current circumstances.
 
If they think "just following orders" is an excuse to shove an old man down, they should never have been given badges in the first place.

Seriously, WTF, America? My previously fellow Americans (predictably the ones that are the biggest part of the problem) make so much noise about loving freedoms, loving rights, loving the constitution, loving America. Just what the **** do you love if you're excusing all this police behavior as "well, it's a tough job" and "he should have complied"?

You should be standing against this stuff. You should be horrified that police think "he didn't do exactly what I said the moment he does it" is an excuse to attack old men. You should be horrified that we hold police to a lower standard than the average citizen. You should be demanding they are held to a higher standard.




It should not be "if someone signs up for a tough job, they should get a pass I wouldn't get."

It should be "the job they signed up for is tough specifically because we expect better of them."




I'm so sick of Americans' hypocrisy. Scream about rights, defend if not cheer of abuse of citizens by government agents. Disgusting.
 
independentusa said:
57 Buffalo officers resign from Emergency Response Team in response to officers' suspension | TheHill
Where have we heard that "they were just following orders" before. First they push a 75 year old man to the ground where he hits his head so hard he is bleeding out his ears and though one of the police tried to bend down to help he was pulled away. The man is now in the hospital in serious condition. Now 57 of the cops have dropped out of the emergency response team in protest because the two who did the deed where suspended. And the only thing that their union could say is that they were following orders. First, as we saw after WWII, that is no excuse for wrong doing. Second, were they given orders to push old men to the ground and leave them when they could tell the man was in trouble. I would have liked to see those orders and have gotten them in writing. And people wonder why so many others do not trust the police!!! The city ought to just fire all of them and go out and hire others.
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It is no excuse those officers should be disciplined and their skills upgraded through follow-up training to use non-lethal force.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Everyone of those guys is looking for a new job as we speak. City is going to have trouble hiring cops at the current pay scale shortly.
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Complete BS... They did not resign as police officers only as members of the ERT... All are still employed by the Buffalo PD...
 
Risky Thicket said:
Exactly. The Nuremberg defense, Befehl ist Befehl, didn't work for Nazis and it shouldn't work now.
Most cops are good people doing a difficult job. There are bad apples in every gathering or group of people. Bad behavior sells more news faster than good behavior. That doesn't excuse what the officers in Buffalo appeared to have done. What is, to me, is almost as damning is that no officer appeared to be concerned about the guy laying there bleeding. I did not see any of them stop to render aid.
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Gotta chuck them bad apples!
They'll spoil the bunch!
 
PirateMk1 said:
Just remember their replacements will be MORE expensive, and more likely less experienced.
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Why would the city need to replace them, they all still work for the Buffalo PD.
 
Moderate Right said:
Liberals are getting exactly what they should get. Their cities are burning to the ground, businesses that serve blacks and even owned by some blacks are getting vandalized and looted and now their police departments are quitting. Only idiots would want to be police officers. The cities can pay the price for their own liberal policies.
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Exactly!
This is so ****ing awesome, right?

So wtf is Trump's problem?

Why isn't Trump more gleeful over this destruction of teh libs?
Why does Trump want to interfere with the natural order of things?
Let these dems wallow in the bed of their own making.
 
BlueTex said:
Why would the city need to replace them, they all still work for the Buffalo PD.
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Because those people are leaving I guarantee. Just as soon as they can. Its too risky for them to work there.
 
Mr Person said:
If they think "just following orders" is an excuse to shove an old man down, they should never have been given badges in the first place.

Seriously, WTF, America? My previously fellow Americans (predictably the ones that are the biggest part of the problem) make so much noise about loving freedoms, loving rights, loving the constitution, loving America. Just what the **** do you love if you're excusing all this police behavior as "well, it's a tough job" and "he should have complied"?

You should be standing against this stuff. You should be horrified that police think "he didn't do exactly what I said the moment he does it" is an excuse to attack old men. You should be horrified that we hold police to a lower standard than the average citizen. You should be demanding they are held to a higher standard.




It should not be "if someone signs up for a tough job, they should get a pass I wouldn't get."

It should be "the job they signed up for is tough specifically because we expect better of them."




I'm so sick of Americans' hypocrisy. Scream about rights, defend if not cheer of abuse of citizens by government agents. Disgusting.
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See post 20.
 
PirateMk1 said:
See post 20.
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I suspect it'll take a lot more than merely changing their title. They have to actually be trained as peace officers. We should have psychological evaluations/screenings, maybe even some situational testing to make sure they have the right mentality to carry out that role. We shouldn't be pushing all this military gear into their hands. So much needs to happen (but almost certainly won't).


And "revenue collectors"? If you're talking about civil forfeiture that needs to be completely redone, and the proceeds should be going somewhere else entirely, not PDs.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Because those people are leaving I guarantee. Just as soon as they can. Its too risky for them to work there.
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LMAO... Where do you predict they are moving? They resigned because their union is having to pay the costs to defend them instead of the city... Don't be a drama queen...
 
BlueTex said:
LMAO... Where do you predict they are moving? They resigned because their union is having to pay the costs to defend them instead of the city... Don't be a drama queen...
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They can do the same job elsewhere and make a little less and have a lot less risk. You dont think cops think about that?
 
PirateMk1 said:
They can do the same job elsewhere and make a little less and have a lot less risk. You dont think cops think about that?
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Where are you predicting they will be moving?
 
Mr Person said:
I suspect it'll take a lot more than merely changing their title. They have to actually be trained as peace officers. We should have psychological evaluations/screenings, maybe even some situational testing to make sure they have the right mentality to carry out that role. We shouldn't be pushing all this military gear into their hands. So much needs to happen (but almost certainly won't).


And "revenue collectors"? If you're talking about civil forfeiture that needs to be completely redone, and the proceeds should be going somewhere else entirely, not PDs.
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Its the mission change that needs to happen. Not just the title. The enforcement of law should be last resort. The keeping of the peace should be first resort. The departments should be run by elected civilians.

All the screenings are all ready done. We still have what we have. What we need is very specific and specialized and not many people have the capabilities and aptitudes to do the job correctly for a short time let alone an extended time.

Revenue collection is a primary function of the police for most if not all cities and counties in the US. This includes citations, civil forfeiture, ect.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Somewhere where protests and daily bull**** will be nonexistent I imagine. It aint just the Buffalo PO's. I suspect I lot of rural departments are about to get a flood of city police officer candidates from all over.
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LMAO... What do you think these rural departments pay versus the city of Buffalo?
 
PirateMk1 said:
Its the mission change that needs to happen. Not just the title. The enforcement of law should be last resort. The keeping of the peace should be first resort. The departments should be run by elected civilians.

All the screenings are all ready done. We still have what we have. What we need is very specific and specialized and not many people have the capabilities and aptitudes to do the job correctly for a short time let alone an extended time. I'm not worried in whether we call it "law enforcement" or "keeping the peace"; I'm worried about how it happens, how law enforcement goes in and escalates when it should be de-escalating.

Revenue collection is a primary function of the police for most if not all cities and counties in the US. This includes citations, civil forfeiture, ect.
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1. It sounds like we're saying largely the same thing, but I just find your wording odd. "Keeping the peace" does involve "enforcing the law". If people are brawling outside a bar and the police break it up, the police are both "keeping the peace" AND "enforcing the law." It's the way they go about doing these things that needs to change.

2. I know screenings are being done. I am saying those screenings are obviously insufficient and need to replaced with a mix of things including screenings that are sufficient.

3. Well, I've never been given a citation let alone refused to pay it and then waited to see the result, but so long as the government does issue citations then someone will have to have the authority to force a person who refuses to pay to do so. If a court orders someone to pay something, or orders that sufficient property to be seized to pay for something someone has refused to pay, then someone is going to have to have the power to go take what is ordered.
 
Mr Person said:
1. It sounds like we're saying largely the same thing, but I just find your wording odd. "Keeping the peace" does involve "enforcing the law". If people are brawling outside a bar and the police break it up, the police are both "keeping the peace" AND "enforcing the law." It's the way they go about doing these things that needs to change.

2. I know screenings are being done. I am saying those screenings are obviously insufficient and need to replaced with a mix of things including screenings that are sufficient.

3. Well, I've never been given a citation let alone refused to pay it and then waited to see the result, but so long as the government does issue citations then someone will have to have the authority to force a person who refuses to pay to do so. If a court orders someone to pay something, or orders that sufficient property to be seized to pay for something someone has refused to pay, then someone is going to have to have the power to go take what is ordered.
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1. Not quite they can be one and the same but most of the time they are not. Your bar fight example. Peace officer is going to break it up and send the mutual assailants on their way if neither ants to press charges. Law enforcement currently usually arrests them and takes them to jail. Big difference. Peace officers are not trying to put people in jail they are not looking for trouble per say, they are simply attempting to keep a general civil harmony in the communities they serve, generally through mediation.

2. You should inquire about the screenings officers go through, where you live. You may find not only the screenings they do enlightening but what it is they are looking for.

3. Police should not be the authority giving citations or enforcing them. That should be another department. Such as the tax authorities. Or in case of civil litigation the litigates.
 
PirateMk1 said:
Somewhere where protests and daily bull**** will be nonexistent I imagine. It aint just the Buffalo PO's. I suspect I lot of rural departments are about to get a flood of city police officer candidates from all over.
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I live in a rural area and about a year ago we hired a new policeman only to find out he had been let go for throwing a woman across a cell apparently for no reason. We never got this information form the big city where he had worked before, but eventually through word of mouth. Rural areas are going to have to look out when they hire someone from a city as you will not know what you are getting until too late.
 
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