"The Vaccinated Must be Protected from the Unvaccinated." Science or common sense?

[seymourflops]

There nothing wrong with common sense, nothing at all.

But are we basing the idea that vaccine mandates protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated on scientific data?

If that is the case, where is the data?

What were the studies and what did they find?

Details, please!

If it is just common sense, do we really want to have this kind of intrusive regulation based on just common sense?

What say you?

 

[Bullseye]

There nothing wrong with common sense, nothing at all.

But are we basing the idea that vaccine mandates protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated on scientific data?

If that is the case, where is the data?

What were the studies and what did they find?

Details, please!

If it is just common sense, do we really want to have this kind of intrusive regulation based on just common sense?

What say you?

I thought that was what the vaccine was supposed to do.

 

[seymourflops]

I thought that was what the vaccine was supposed to do.

That's what they told us.

 

[Slavister]

You can't find studies that unvaccinated people spread the disease for longer than vaccinated ones? This increased spread
- increases chances of breakthrough infections for vaccinated resulting in (lower-chance-but-still-possible) hospitalizations and death
- increases chance of mutations into something to renders vaccines ineffective

You can't find studies showing that kids can die or get long covid (again unvaccinated spread it for longer)

You can't find studies that most hospitalized COVID patients are by far unvaccinated? (This clogs up hospitals for rest of us, the vaccinated ones)

 

[seymourflops]

You can't find studies that unvaccinated people spread the disease for longer than vaccinated ones? This increased spread
- increases chances of breakthrough infections for vaccinated resulting in (lower-chance-but-still-possible) hospitalizations and death
- increases chance of mutations into something to renders vaccines ineffective

You can't find studies showing that kids can die or get long covid (again unvaccinated spread it for longer)

You can't find studies that most hospitalized COVID patients are by far unvaccinated? (This clogs up hospitals for rest of us, the vaccinated ones)

I can't find studies showing that a group of vaccinated people were exposed to unvaccinated people and were hospitalized for COVID more often than another group of vaccinated people who were not exposed to unvaccinated people.

 

[Lursa]

Easy enough to paste this back in, Ppreviously posted:

At its most basic, it means that the vaccines protect most people from serious sickness. Even for the Delta variant. A positive thing. No vaccine, for anything, is 100% effective.

/end

For those sincerely interested:

Indications are that the current vaccines do not prevent people from being infected with covid, most specifically the Delta variant that developed later. This means that even if people are asymptomatic due to their own immune systems fighting off the virus, they may still be able to infect others.

This is a less common response to vaccines but we're in 'reactive mode' to a novel virus. It also means that the virus can still spread. Less so, but some. So current recommendations are to try and further reduce spread (replication) of covid by still using masks, by social distancing, by not having mass events, etc.

The more opportunities the virus has to replicate, the more opportunities it has to mutate into new variants...which are unpredictable...they can be more transmissible and/or more virulent. It's in all our best interests to reduce the spread of the virus as much as possible to minimize the development of more dangerous variants.

The faster the virus is truly shutdown, the faster life and the economy can go on more normally. As we now have proof...half-measures, eagerness to appease the public, unrealistic expectations in giving people too much credit for being responsible, and ignorance only prolong our reaching this goal.

 

[Bullseye]

That's what they told us.

"You results may vary"

 

[Slavister]

I can't find studies showing that a group of vaccinated people were exposed to unvaccinated people and were hospitalized for COVID more often than another group of vaccinated people who were not exposed to unvaccinated people.

Good thing you are not running our COVID response

 

[seymourflops]

"You results may vary"

Yes. Really, really vary . . .

 

[craig]

There nothing wrong with common sense, nothing at all.

But are we basing the idea that vaccine mandates protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated on scientific data?

If that is the case, where is the data?

What were the studies and what did they find?

Details, please!

If it is just common sense, do we really want to have this kind of intrusive regulation based on just common sense?

What say you?

The virus mutates in the unvaccinated and will eventually infect the vaccinated.

 

[Integrityrespec]

There nothing wrong with common sense, nothing at all.

But are we basing the idea that vaccine mandates protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated on scientific data?

If that is the case, where is the data?

What were the studies and what did they find?

Details, please!

If it is just common sense, do we really want to have this kind of intrusive regulation based on just common sense?

What say you?

Why is Joe for women making their abortion decision, which definitely ends a life, in fact almost a million per year. However Joe doesn't think we ought to make our own decision regarding the vaccine. The vaccinated don't need protection from the unvaccinated if the vaccine works.

 

[craig]

Why is Joe for women making their abortion decision, which definitely ends a life, in fact almost a million per year. However Joe doesn't think we ought to make our own decision regarding the vaccine. The vaccinated don't need protection from the unvaccinated if the vaccine works.

Because getting vaccinated will stop the economic damage the Chinese virus is doing to our economy and abortions won't.

 

[DataPoint]

The OP is good science and common sense.

The unvaccinated have to be protected from themselves.

 

[seymourflops]

The virus mutates in the unvaccinated and will eventually infect the vaccinated.

wait, so the unvaccinated are like these petri dishes, growing new strains of the virus to kill the vaccinated?

I know you wouldn't say that without strong scientific evidence.

What is it?

 

[seymourflops]

Why is Joe for women making their abortion decision, which definitely ends a life, in fact almost a million per year. However Joe doesn't think we ought to make our own decision regarding the vaccine. The vaccinated don't need protection from the unvaccinated if the vaccine works.

See, that what seems like common sense to me.

Science can overcome common sense, of course.

But no one seems able to show the science that does that.

 

[prodigalson]

Easy enough to paste this back in, Ppreviously posted:

At its most basic, it means that the vaccines protect most people from serious sickness. Even for the Delta variant. A positive thing. No vaccine, for anything, is 100% effective.

/end

For those sincerely interested:

Indications are that the current vaccines do not prevent people from being infected with covid, most specifically the Delta variant that developed later. This means that even if people are asymptomatic due to their own immune systems fighting off the virus, they may still be able to infect others.

This is a less common response to vaccines but we're in 'reactive mode' to a novel virus. It also means that the virus can still spread. Less so, but some. So current recommendations are to try and further reduce spread (replication) of covid by still using masks, by social distancing, by not having mass events, etc.

The more opportunities the virus has to replicate, the more opportunities it has to mutate into new variants...which are unpredictable...they can be more transmissible and/or more virulent. It's in all our best interests to reduce the spread of the virus as much as possible to minimize the development of more dangerous variants.

The faster the virus is truly shutdown, the faster life and the economy can go on more normally. As we now have proof...half-measures, eagerness to appease the public, unrealistic expectations in giving people too much credit for being responsible, and ignorance only prolong our reaching this goal.

But...but...imagine if the smallpox vaccine promised no immunity, but simply less scarring. Imagine if the polio vaccine promised no immunity, only less crippling.

The best way to reduce the spread of any virus is to increase the strength of our immune systems. The replication of viruses is increased through the weakening of the forces against them.

So hell yeah. Let's destroy our immune systems by masking up, social distancing, and sanitizing the shit out of everything. On top of that, let's introduce a magic shot which was supposed to protect us against yesterday's variant but makes us more susceptible to tomorrow's.

Hell, yeah! We're on the right track!

 

[Noodlegawd]

What say you?

I say that you seem to like making a sport of ignoring facts.

 

[seymourflops]

I say that you seem to like making a sport of ignoring facts.

Let me guess.

You won't tell us the facts you speak of that I'm supposedly ignoring, but will tell me to google it?

 

[Noodlegawd]

Let me guess.

You won't tell us the facts you speak of that I'm supposedly ignoring, but will tell me to google it?

I don't suppose you can be bothered to read your own thread, or any one of the dozen+ others you've started or posted in where the relevant facts have been repeated over and over again, can you?

 

[Lursa]

But...but...imagine if the smallpox vaccine promised no immunity, but simply less scarring. Imagine if the polio vaccine promised no immunity, only less crippling.

The best way to reduce the spread of any virus is to increase the strength of our immune systems. The replication of viruses is increased through the weakening of the forces against them.

That's what vaccines do, increase the strength of our immune systems. And the bold doesnt mean much...it just means that anything slowing it or inhibiting it reduces replication...that can be loads of things...it's just 'obvious.'

So hell yeah. Let's destroy our immune systems by masking up, social distancing, and sanitizing the shit out of everything.

Btw, the things you listed 'reduce' infection...which depends on viral load. Those things you listed dont mean that people arent exposed to the virus, it mostly means that they're not exposed to enough to make them sick.

How are immune systems being destroyed? I'd like to see some medical sourcing on that.

On top of that, let's introduce a magic shot which was supposed to protect us against yesterday's variant but makes us more susceptible to tomorrow's.

How do vaccines destroy immune systems? And where did you read it makes us more susceptible to new variants? It wasnt designed for Delta...and it still works pretty well. No vaccine is 100% effective. Can you source how vaccines are making us more susceptible to new variants?

Hell, yeah! We're on the right track!

We are...you havent really explained why we're not.

 

[seymourflops]

I don't suppose you can be bothered to read your own thread, or any one of the dozen+ others you've started or posted in where the relevant facts have been repeated over and over again, can you?

Just name one of the facts that you speak of.

Just one.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Just name one of the facts that you speak of.

Just one.

Vaccinated people are about 3-4 times less likely to be infected with the Delta variant than unvaccinated people.

COVID-19 Vaccines

Vaccines are seen as one of the best ways to stop COVID-19. Learn more about the types of vaccines, including the newly approved Novavax.

www.webmd.com

 

[seymourflops]

Vaccinated people are about 3-4 times less likely to be infected with the Delta variant than unvaccinated people.

COVID-19 Vaccines

Vaccines are seen as one of the best ways to stop COVID-19. Learn more about the types of vaccines, including the newly approved Novavax.

www.webmd.com

Lord . . .

Name a fact that supports Biden's statement that the vaccinated must be protected from the unvaccinated.

You would think that the company line would be that they vaccinated are protected by the vaccine.

Is the purpose of the vaccine, just some sort of tribal ceremony of recognition?

I was hoping it would actually help.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Lord . . .

Name a fact that supports Biden's statement that the vaccinated must be protected from the unvaccinated.

I just did. I can't do anything about your inability to understand it even after it's been explained countless times.

 

[Lursa]

Lord . . .

Name a fact that supports Biden's statement that the vaccinated must be protected from the unvaccinated.

You would think that the company line would be that they vaccinated are protected by the vaccine.

Is the purpose of the vaccine, just some sort of tribal ceremony of recognition?

I was hoping it would actually help.

Here's 3:

Fact 1:Tlrmlns' from post 22. Vaccinated people are about 3-4 times less likely to be infected with the Delta variant than unvaccinated people. Thus the unvaxxed are much more likely causing:​

Fact 2: The vaccinated can still get breakthrough infections of Delta. The vaccinated elderly are once again more vulnerable to this, they may even get serious illness or die.​

Fact 3: The more opportunities the virus has to replicate, the more opportunities it has to mutate into new variants...which are unpredictable...they can be more transmissible and/or more virulent. It's in all our best interests to reduce the spread of the virus as much as possible to minimize the development of more dangerous variants.​

Anything else? No? Glad I could help you connect the dots contained right here in your thread.