The US Suffers from Not Enough Government

[AConcernedCitizen]

As a society we band together with a common heritage and culture for mutual benefits of banding together for trade, protection against hostile neighbors etc

In order for that society to remain strong it is imperative for individuals in that society to pull there own weight and not drag others and society as whole down with them.

Social welfare at its core is tantamount to your neighbor knocking on your door (and all the other doors in your neighborhood) at the first of each month and demanding money to pay his bills....you might help him once because your neighbor......but what are you going to do when he's there every month wanting your money......eventually you'll tell him...Get a job you lazy M'fer and support your self!

And using the confiscatory power of government to effectively steal money from those who earned it and give to those who did not is in my top 5 list of most immoral things because you are literally stealing the hours of there life they expended to earn that money!

I'm not saying that we as a society should not take care of our citizens who truly cannot take care of themselves....the old, the infirm and crippled......by all means those people should be taken care of because that is the right thing to do.....The rest of you??? Get your ass to work as the world does not owe you a living!!!

Socialism is evil!!!!

Social welfare is no different at its core than any other function of government. Trump's wall would then be tantamount to your neighbor knocking on your door (and all the other doors in your neighborhood) at the first of each month and demanding money to pay for a fence around his house....you might help him once because your neighbor......but what are you going to do when he's there every month wanting your money......eventually you'll tell him...Get a job you lazy M'fer and pay for your own damn wall!

And all these folks on the right who are up in arms about "defund the police?" Police funding from tax payers would then be tantamount to your neighbor knocking on your door (and all the other doors in your neighborhood) at the first of each month and demanding money to pay for a new security system in his house....you might help him once because your neighbor......but what are you going to do when he's there every month wanting your money......eventually you'll tell him...Get a job you lazy M'fer and pay for your own damn security!

Any use of taxpayer money falls into this category.

Your example is a misconstruction though, because social welfare isn't a direct demand for money from one individual to another. It is an arrangement determined by a community for the benefit of that community as a whole.

My neighbors and I share a private well. This is financially advantageous for all of us, compared to each of us individually paying for drilling and tanks and pumps and inspections on each of our properties. By pooling assets to take advantage of the economy of scale, we all save money. This is fundamentally how socialized safety nets and other government functions work. And to head off the obvious complaint that always arises, no I didn't voluntarily enter into this arrangement, I inherited it from the previous owner of the house, just as US citizens inherit the decisions of voters that came before.

As another example, before I acquired my house, I had a condo. Our homeowner's association had a vote and decided to install a swimming pool. They paid for this swimming pool using the homeowner's dues that we all paid. Even though I did not personally think that the swimming pool was a good use of funds, I was outvoted. But even though it didn't go my way, I can still recognize that it is not stealing for them to use the homeowner's dues that I paid in order to install a swimming pool that I wasn't going to swim in.

I paid my homeowners dues in exchange for maintenance and landscaping, and a number of other things. Once those dues were paid, they no longer belonged to me. They belonged to the community. Even though I didn't like everything the Homeowners association decided on, I enjoyed the benefits of economy of scale that came with being a part of that community.

After you pay the citizens of the United States in exchange for military protection and infrastructure and law enforcement, etc... the money that you paid is no longer yours, it belongs to the citizens of the United States. And if they decide that using their economy of scale to protect everyone's health or to reduce poverty at the shareholders meeting, that is their prerogative.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

President Ronald Wilson Reagan had the correct statement about government: "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problems, government IS the problem".

Is that why he increased the budget deficit from $79 billion to $153 billion?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Interesting. I agree that our government is not aiming to help most people, but I wonder how much our own stubborn behavior and contrarian refusal to believe anything except conspiracy theories and hateful rhetoric plays in. We eat fast food until we are obese, pride ourselves on being armed to the teeth in every confrontation, disbelieve any science about the environment, and appear to have a coronavirus death wish causing us to view masks as an affront to freedom ... maybe we are just a uniquely stupid people who earn our low ranking with our own choices?

In other words, Americans are bad for not wanting their lives controlled on the spread sheets of central planners.

 

[Bassman]

Is that why he increased the budget deficit from $79 billion to $153 billion?

You conveniently forget he had to rebuild the military decimated by Jimmah Cahtah, and counter what the Soviet Union (a country you obviously emulate) was doing.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

If it's not the government's job to help people, what use is government for then?

Though I think one of the problems the US have is not necessary that the government is small, but that it is working on different levels without any clearly defined hierarchy that decides which level that do what, which predictably lead to every level of government thinking it's someone else's job. Also ironically US tax payers don't exactly pay less in taxes for less services, so to that has always looked like a scam.

The government is not small by any means.

The first thing we should do is fire 70 percent of federal workers, we would do just fine without the EEOC or the Department of Education

 

[EMNofSeattle]

If so, it's your own fault. Local school districts across the nation are run by local people. If the only people getting involved in the local PTAs, the local school boards, and becoming school teachers and administrators are liberals, then don't just sit there and complain.

The school boards have less powers then you think. Most states are controlled by dictates of the teachers unions since no one wants to break them like Reagan did PATCO

For most of human history teachers didn’t have college education and now some states require master’s degrees to get teaching certificates. And a masters degree is just evidence of leftist indoctrination.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

You conveniently forget he had to rebuild the military decimated by Jimmah Cahtah, and counter what the Soviet Union (a country you obviously emulate) was doing.

What gave him the right to steal my tax dollars to play with his guns and tanks? Why don't the people who want military protection get a job and hire their own private security instead of stealing my hard-earned money?*

*Please note that this post is satirical, and meant to illustrate the folly of this method of reasoning rather than as a genuine representation of my own views

 

[EMNofSeattle]

What gave him the right to steal my tax dollars to play with his guns and tanks? Why don't the people who want military protection get a job and hire their own private security instead of stealing my hard-earned money?*

*Please note that this post is satirical, and meant to illustrate the folly of this method of reasoning rather than as a genuine representation of my own views

The military broadly speaking protects the entire society. Welfare programs exist to provide direct cash benefit to individuals

 

[Bassman]

The school boards have less powers then you think. Most states are controlled by dictates of the teachers unions since no one wants to break them like Reagan did PATCO

For most of human history teachers didn’t have college education and now some states require master’s degrees to get teaching certificates. And a masters degree is just evidence of leftist indoctrination.

There is a reason why Reagan shitcanned the PATCO strikers. That being, they staged a clearly illegal strike in violation of the Hatch Act. After giving the leadership fair warning, the air traffic controllers were out on their sorry asses.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

There is a reason why Reagan shitcanned the PATCO strikers. That being, they staged a clearly illegal strike in violation of the Hatch Act. After giving the leadership fair warning, the air traffic controllers were out on their sorry asses.

Exactly, it’s what should happen to teachers who strike

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

The military broadly speaking protects the entire society. Welfare programs exist to provide direct cash benefit to individuals

Welfare programs are empirically more economically efficient at reducing crime in a community than increasing law enforcement budgets. They also reduce homelessness, increasing property values in the community, etc...

 

[Bassman]

Welfare programs are empirically more economically efficient at reducing crime in a community than increasing law enforcement budgets. They also reduce homelessness, increasing property values in the community, etc...

Ever visit section 8 housing? Not a pretty sight, and most landlords won't accept it. Welfare programs do not encourage work whatsoever. Thank God for the 1996 reforms that put a permanent 5 year cap on lifetime benefits and work requirements.

 

[Individual]

YES! Workers of the world unite! Keep those red flags flying high!

Except they changed to blue in the U.S. after Reagan.

 

[Individual]

I have to ask: What, then, is the purpose of bothering with a society?

What's your definition of a society?

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

I disagree. It is not that we do not have enough government but how it is used. In my view, our government is used to support corporate interests over the people, so we pay plenty into it and get very little out as a society. It seems like only the wealthy really benefit from our government.

I agree. Just look how much these corporations paid the Clinton's. 100+million dollars to listen to them talk. That was until she lost. Now they don't care what they have to say. Of course anyone with a brain knows they never did care about what they had to say. Those were legal bribes plain and simple. Why do you think we got Obama care instead of single payer. Insurance companies would have lost billions if not trillions of dollars. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Welfare programs are empirically more economically efficient at reducing crime in a community than increasing law enforcement budgets. They also reduce homelessness, increasing property values in the community, etc...

No they’re not.

That’s at best correlation.

 

[Integrityrespec]

The US ranks 28th in overall social welfare, and is dropping.

A measure of social progress finds that the quality of life has dropped in America over the last decade, even as it has risen almost everywhere else.

The index, inspired by research of Nobel-winning economists, collects 50 metrics of well-being — nutrition, safety, freedom, the environment, health, education and more — to measure quality of life. Norway comes out on top in the 2020 edition, followed by Denmark, Finland and New Zealand. South Sudan is at the bottom, with Chad, Central African Republic and Eritrea just behind.

Out of 163 countries assessed worldwide, the United States, Brazil and Hungary are the only ones in which people are worse off than when the index began in 2011.

The United States now lags behind significantly poorer countries, including Estonia, Czech Republic, Cyprus and Greece, because those nations have more robust government supports for their people.

The United States ranks No. 1 in the world in quality of universities, but No. 91 in access to quality basic education. The U.S. leads the world in medical technology, yet we are No. 97 in access to quality health care.

The ranking system is upsurd and anyone who believes the rankings is nuts.

 

[bomberfox]

What makes you think I'm "in power" now? Hell, I'm not even employed.

Oh so you are a moocher then? Hmmm. I mean you in the plural sense as in you guys are in power (trumpists)

 

[bomberfox]

There is a reason why Reagan shitcanned the PATCO strikers. That being, they staged a clearly illegal strike in violation of the Hatch Act. After giving the leadership fair warning, the air traffic controllers were out on their sorry asses.

The hatch act applies to the executive branch. Its main provision prohibits civil service employees in the executive branch of the federal government,[3] except the president and vice president,[4] from engaging in some forms of political activity. It became law on August 2, 1939.

unionizing and engaging in union activity is still a right. Unions helped break McConnel and trump’s hostage holding of the federal government.

 

[Individual]

OP: Our standard of living is falling.

Right wing: "GREAT NEWS!"

Do we NEED our population to grow by 3,000,000 or more each year?
We need to look at the root causes of our problems, and I would suggest beginning with the progressive movement, which began in the 1890's followed by passage of the 16th and 17th amendments to our Constitution, along with the Federal Reserve Act in 1913 as having fundamentally changed our form of government unsustainable except by harmful inflationary means, reducing our ability to compete in the world market place.

Perhaps a good start would be to pay politicians the median income of the population they represent.

 

[Dayton3]

Oh so you are a moocher then? Hmmm. I mean you in the plural sense as in you guys are in power (trumpists)

How? I don't get unemployment? And I have too many assets to get any kind of public assistance.

 

[skeptic llc]

In other words, Americans are bad for not wanting their lives controlled on the spread sheets of central planners.

I think that is much more your sentiment than anything I said. My point was that Americans get bad outcomes because we tend to make bad personal choices. That doesn't mean we should turn our lives over to central planners -- it means we should simply acknowledge that our choices have consequences, not try to push blame onto bogeymen like government or hidden conspiracies. You know, personal responsibility.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

No they’re not.

That’s at best correlation.

Dozens of peer-reviewed studies that confirm theoretical predictive models with empirical findings disagree with you. Here are just a few of them:

Maximilian Rudolph, Peter Starke, How does the welfare state reduce crime? The effect of program characteristics and decommodification across 18 OECD-countries, Journal of Criminal Justice, (2020).

Sylwia J. Piatkowska, Steven F. Messner, Colin Gruner, Eric P. Baumer, The “New Fiscal Criminology”: State-Level Changes in Crime Rates and the Structure of Tax Systems, Justice Quarterly, (2020)

Zheng Su, Xun Cao, Beyond Carrot and Stick: The Effect of Conflict Resolution on Crime Control in China, The British Journal of Criminology, (2020)

Mitchell B. Chamlin, Joel E. Denney, An impact assessment of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, Journal of Crime and Justice, (2019)

François Bonnet, Crime et État-providence Crime and the Welfare State, Champ pénal (2019)

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Dozens of peer-reviewed studies that confirm theoretical predictive models with empirical findings disagree with you. Here are just a few of them:

Maximilian Rudolph, Peter Starke, How does the welfare state reduce crime? The effect of program characteristics and decommodification across 18 OECD-countries, Journal of Criminal Justice, (2020).

Sylwia J. Piatkowska, Steven F. Messner, Colin Gruner, Eric P. Baumer, The “New Fiscal Criminology”: State-Level Changes in Crime Rates and the Structure of Tax Systems, Justice Quarterly, (2020)

Zheng Su, Xun Cao, Beyond Carrot and Stick: The Effect of Conflict Resolution on Crime Control in China, The British Journal of Criminology, (2020)

Mitchell B. Chamlin, Joel E. Denney, An impact assessment of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996, Journal of Crime and Justice, (2019)

François Bonnet, Crime et État-providence Crime and the Welfare State, Champ pénal (2019)

I’m sure that leftist academics can invent evidence for their claims. They do all the time. If social welfare reduced crime then the black community in the US would be the most law abiding. You can frame a study to get any theory you want validated. Results are much different

 

[skeptic llc]

I’m sure that leftist academics can invent evidence for their claims. They do all the time. If social welfare reduced crime then the black community in the US would be the most law abiding. You can frame a study to get any theory you want validated. Results are much different

When your positions are impervious to contrary evidence you might want to announce that so no one wastes time responding.