The US is gearing itself for war against China!

[CapsLam]

This is what many evidences speak for, for example the very latest incident in the South China Sea where the USNS Impeccable was apparently tracking Chinese submarines in the two-hundred-mile exclusive economic zone of China under pretence of exploring the sea floor. This is ridiculous. Why on earth an American ship should be exploring the floor near China’s seaboard? The more so as it turned out that the USNS Impeccable was supervised by the US Navy.
Indeed, it appears that the Pentagon is making arrangements for a warfare against China. And America does need this war for many reasons. For the first thing, Washington needs to seize the moment before China is too strong and the US is too weak because of the financial crisis. For the second thing, American military do understand that America’s only chance to remain at the top of the world requires low oil prices. At the same moment, global financial stabilization results in oil prices growing up, which means that global financial stabilization is good for the rest of world, but not for the USA! And this is why Washington will try to keep the world unstable even though this means a war.

 

[UtahBill]

Having served on a fast attack submarine early in my navy years, and at the navy's east coast SOSUS hub at the end of active duty years, I can assure you that tracking subs using surface ships is old technology, and never done by unnarmed civilian manned ships. Satellites do the job now. The SOSUS system has been given over to researchers who track whales and such.

 

[Voidwar]

We got a lot on our plate right now.

Don't make us come over there and stomp your tiny olive asses.

 

[BulletWounD]

This is what many evidences speak for, for example the very latest incident in the South China Sea where the USNS Impeccable was apparently tracking Chinese submarines in the two-hundred-mile exclusive economic zone of China under pretence of exploring the sea floor. This is ridiculous. Why on earth an American ship should be exploring the floor near China’s seaboard? The more so as it turned out that the USNS Impeccable was supervised by the US Navy.
Indeed, it appears that the Pentagon is making arrangements for a warfare against China. And America does need this war for many reasons. For the first thing, Washington needs to seize the moment before China is too strong and the US is too weak because of the financial crisis. For the second thing, American military do understand that America’s only chance to remain at the top of the world requires low oil prices. At the same moment, global financial stabilization results in oil prices growing up, which means that global financial stabilization is good for the rest of world, but not for the USA! And this is why Washington will try to keep the world unstable even though this means a war.

This post is so idiotic I wouldn't even know where to begin. I can only hope that readers aren't ignorant enough to take your post at face value.

 

[tlmorg02]

This post is so idiotic I wouldn't even know where to begin. I can only hope that readers aren't ignorant enough to take your post at face value.

No worries, I do not feel that the U.S. will go to war with China anytime soon. But the poster of this discussion shares the same fears of many Americans. The honest truth is that China still feels like a third-world country, even though it's economy is rapidly rising. Attempting to stand-up to the U.S., even for appearance sake only, makes the Beijing government feel good about itself, and appeases friends such as North Korea and Russia, who feel that China is becoming too cozy with America.

We realize this and let them save face by putting on their show.

 

[BulletWounD]

No worries, I do not feel that the U.S. will go to war with China anytime soon. But the poster of this discussion shares the same fears of many Americans. The honest truth is that China still feels like a third-world country, even though it's economy is rapidly rising. Attempting to stand-up to the U.S., even for appearance sake only, makes the Beijing government feel good about itself, and appeases friends such as North Korea and Russia, who feel that China is becoming too cozy with America.

We realize this and let them save face by putting on their show.

I understand you may not have studied the subject, but North Korea and Russia are hardly "friends" of China. As China and Russia continue to reform their governments, we will naturally become more friendly with them. I know the realpolitik crowd LOVES to ignore the importance of ideology to international relations but the fact of the matter is that the more free and democratic a society is, the more closely aligned with the US they will become.

North Korea is hardly relevant. Their regime suffers from collective insanity and they're considered a loose cannon in the international community. Nobody can trust them. They're a destabilizing force. I seriously doubt those who craft China's broad foreign policy initiatives even take the views of the DPRK into consideration at all.

If anybody really wants me to go through line by line and point out the ridiculous nature of the original post, I will do so.

 

[Ambracia]

This is what many evidences speak for, for example the very latest incident in the South China Sea where the USNS Impeccable was apparently tracking Chinese submarines in the two-hundred-mile exclusive economic zone of China under pretence of exploring the sea floor. This is ridiculous. Why on earth an American ship should be exploring the floor near China’s seaboard? The more so as it turned out that the USNS Impeccable was supervised by the US Navy.
Indeed, it appears that the Pentagon is making arrangements for a warfare against China. And America does need this war for many reasons. For the first thing, Washington needs to seize the moment before China is too strong and the US is too weak because of the financial crisis. For the second thing, American military do understand that America’s only chance to remain at the top of the world requires low oil prices. At the same moment, global financial stabilization results in oil prices growing up, which means that global financial stabilization is good for the rest of world, but not for the USA! And this is why Washington will try to keep the world unstable even though this means a war.

We were spying on the Chinese ..... So what ? Our military is watching every country constantly for irregular behavior (An example would be that North Korean launch site but nobody got upset when we found out about that :roll and if the chinese get upset over it to bad for them they don't have the power to do anything about it:usflag2:

And I disagree with all these people freaked out over China that it will surpass the U.S. Even at its current growth rates which have already been going on for thirty years and I highly doubt will last another thirty (I doubt even ten), it won't catch up to us until around 2035. Then you have to take the Non Performing Loans into the equation which means that around 20% of China's GDP is an inflated claim by the government. We also have to stop and think here for a moment that China's economy is almost entirely based on export and despite massive efforts by the government domestic spending in China isn't going anywhere so China has a structural limit of being unable to surpass a GDP worth much more than foreign demand and by foreign demand I mean the U.S retail market. The fact is that the very location of the U.S.A makes it extremely powerful as it has easier access to global trade than any country on the planet. The financial crisis is a passing bubble which has had a worse impact on China of all places than the U.S and once it passes the U.S will emerge only stronger than before. In the next decade or two China's growth will slow to a halt tensions will grow between the people and the government, the poor inland provinces and the rich coastal provinces and the chinese government and foreign governments who will want to see the country fracture. As for oil the U.S is working on decreasing dependence and its important to remember the U.S is the worlds third largest producer of oil making the only reason it costs so much the U.S economies own success.

 

[Ambracia]

I understand you may not have studied the subject, but North Korea and Russia are hardly "friends" of China. As China and Russia continue to reform their governments, we will naturally become more friendly with them.

I trust China more than Russia because in geopolitical terms NATO's prescence in the Baltics and eastern europe is to them a literal existential threat and I believe that as the next decade unfolds we'll see Russia unify with Belarus, push south in the Caucusus, establish very tight ties with Kazakhastan, bring Ukraine under their influence and try to bring about NATO's destruction. In the end it will fail as the U.S begins to apply economic and military pressure along with developing technologies undermining their main industry which is energy exports. This time I see Russia fracturing permanently and after it falls nations along its borders will swoop in and sieze its former territories.

 

[tlmorg02]

I understand you may not have studied the subject, but North Korea and Russia are hardly "friends" of China. As China and Russia continue to reform their governments, we will naturally become more friendly with them. I know the realpolitik crowd LOVES to ignore the importance of ideology to international relations but the fact of the matter is that the more free and democratic a society is, the more closely aligned with the US they will become.

North Korea is hardly relevant. Their regime suffers from collective insanity and they're considered a loose cannon in the international community. Nobody can trust them. They're a destabilizing force. I seriously doubt those who craft China's broad foreign policy initiatives even take the views of the DPRK into consideration at all.

If anybody really wants me to go through line by line and point out the ridiculous nature of the original post, I will do so.

In fact I have studied the subject and both China and Russia share relations in the Shanghai Corporation Organization, set-up to balance U.S. hegemony. Also, both nations work together extensively on energy initiatives, such as oil supply from Russia to China, as well as natural gas.

North Korea is important to China for two reasons. First, China considers NK as its creation due to Mao's intervention during the Korean War and his close alliance with the country. The second reason is that China does not trust the United States and considers South Korea a post for U.S. spying, North Korea provides buffer space on that front.

Thus, to say that these countries are not "friends" would be to totally ignore many areas of cooperation that they undertake.

 

[tlmorg02]

I understand you may not have studied the subject, but North Korea and Russia are hardly "friends" of China. As China and Russia continue to reform their governments, we will naturally become more friendly with them. I know the realpolitik crowd LOVES to ignore the importance of ideology to international relations but the fact of the matter is that the more free and democratic a society is, the more closely aligned with the US they will become.

North Korea is hardly relevant. Their regime suffers from collective insanity and they're considered a loose cannon in the international community. Nobody can trust them. They're a destabilizing force. I seriously doubt those who craft China's broad foreign policy initiatives even take the views of the DPRK into consideration at all.

If anybody really wants me to go through line by line and point out the ridiculous nature of the original post, I will do so.

Here is a link that may illustrate my point better:

Are China and Russia getting too friendly? - By Ian Bremmer - Slate Magazine

 

[Ambracia]

Here is a link that may illustrate my point better:

Are China and Russia getting too friendly? - By Ian Bremmer - Slate Magazine

I disagree that China and Russia will become allies because it is Russia's geopolitical interests to destroy NATO and it is in China's interest no matter what it may want, to keep the U.S market open to their goods unrestricted by foreign policy impediments. Translation- Unless China can figure out a replacement for our market there more or less our b****.

 

[tlmorg02]

I disagree that China and Russia will become allies because it is Russia's geopolitical interests to destroy NATO and it is in China's interest no matter what it may want, to keep the U.S market open to their goods unrestricted by foreign policy impediments. Translation- Unless China can figure out a replacement for our market there more or less our b****.

China is already working to do just that.

China taps its rural consumer base | The Australian

And as for NATO: Russia, China building own security as a counterbalance to the U.S. and NATO,


China does not fear losing the Western Market, U.S. corporations such as WalMart are so invested in China that they will always have an avenue for their exports.

 

[Ambracia]

China is already working to do just that.

China taps its rural consumer base | The Australian

I posted an argument about both of these issues before this but maybe you passed them ? And btw there domestic demand push isn't going so hot China Price Drop Spurs Deflation Fears - WSJ.com

And as for NATO: Russia, China building own security as a counterbalance to the U.S. and NATO,

Russia will enter a cold war with the U.S but China A.) Needs the U.S market B.) Won't risk drawing U.S pressure against it until a point where it can equal U.S strength (A point it won't reach, read my previous arguments) C.) Besides China has no reason important enough to risk a good part of their economic growth in a cold war even if they could replace the U.S for the most part as a market (which they can't because ironically its domestic demand comes from working in factories for export) other than Taiwan and finally D.) China doesn't have a navy, air power or Plane manufacturing to compete with the U.S in an engagement for taiwan so an invasion would be a waste (But this is another topic)

China does not fear losing the Western Market, U.S. corporations such as WalMart are so invested in China that they will always have an avenue for their exports.

China's economy is almost entirely dependent on U.S retail while in the U.S economy only retail needs China to make a higher profit than without it. The corporate pressure would be high on Walmarts side but in the end the importance of weakening China in a cold war and domestic manufacturer pressure in the U.S could overcome it.

 

[tlmorg02]

China is already working to do just that.

China taps its rural consumer base | The Australian

I posted an argument about both of these issues before this but maybe you passed them ? And btw there domestic demand push isn't going so hot China Price Drop Spurs Deflation Fears - WSJ.com

And as for NATO: Russia, China building own security as a counterbalance to the U.S. and NATO,

Russia will enter a cold war with the U.S but China A.) Needs the U.S market B.) Won't risk drawing U.S pressure against it until a point where it can equal U.S strength (A point it won't reach, read my previous arguments) C.) Besides China has no reason important enough to risk a good part of their economic growth in a cold war even if they could replace the U.S for the most part as a market (which they can't because ironically its domestic demand comes from working in factories for export) other than Taiwan and finally D.) China doesn't have a navy, air power or Plane manufacturing to compete with the U.S in an engagement for taiwan so an invasion would be a waste (But this is another topic)

China does not fear losing the Western Market, U.S. corporations such as WalMart are so invested in China that they will always have an avenue for their exports.

China's economy is almost entirely dependent on U.S retail while in the U.S economy only retail needs China to make a higher profit than without it. The corporate pressure would be high on Walmarts side but in the end the importance of weakening China in a cold war and domestic manufacturer pressure in the U.S could overcome it.

The U.S. will never take a Cold War stance with either Russia or China. Such theory has long ceased and been replaced with engagement. I think you underestimate China, and yes they are feeling economic pressure, but in the long-term I feel they will be on better ground economically than we. China is very good at shadowing their interntions behind others. Under Mao, China undertook many anti-U.S. operations in Asia and still Nixon visited and worked toward relations with the nation. Why? Cold War will get us no where in a global economy and will never happen again.

Ultimately, other avenues will have to be taken as markets are too intermingled to resort to Cold War practices. Thus, the Chinese and Russians have more wiggle room in their practices.

 

[OutoftheBox]

Good chance that the US was spying where it shouldn't had been.

Good chance that the Chinese reacted the way that they did to the presence of the US Naval ship in what they felt was their 'territorial waters' letting the US know that they were not intimidated by their violation.

This initial confrontation won't lead to war anytime soon, but it sure may add unneeded strain to China US relations that may lead to who knows what later down the road. POV

 

[BulletWounD]

Good chance that the US was spying where it shouldn't had been.

Good chance that the Chinese reacted the way that they did to the presence of the US Naval ship in what they felt was their 'territorial waters' letting the US know that they were not intimidated by their violation.

This initial confrontation won't lead to war anytime soon, but it sure may add unneeded strain to China US relations that may lead to who knows what later down the road. POV

It's NOT their territorial waters. The PRC claims the whole damn South China Sea as "their's," just like Taiwan is "their's." The surveillance ship was operating in what the PRC "claims" is their economic exclusion zone, and even if this claim was legitimate it would still be legal under international law. The unarmed surveillance ship consisted mostly of merchant marines anyway. Now they're going to have a real warship in the South China Sea. Good move China! If the PRC had a problem with the ship operating there, there are better ways of handling it than engaging in dangerous, confrontational maneuvers. I think this whole ordeal was a staged propaganda move to inspire nationalist sentiments.

 

[Ambracia]

The U.S. will never take a Cold War stance with either Russia or China. Such theory has long ceased and been replaced with engagement. I think you underestimate China, and yes they are feeling economic pressure, but in the long-term I feel they will be on better ground economically than we. China is very good at shadowing their interntions behind others. Under Mao, China undertook many anti-U.S. operations in Asia and still Nixon visited and worked toward relations with the nation. Why? Cold War will get us no where in a global economy and will never happen again.

From my previous post on China
And I disagree with all these people freaked out over China that it will surpass the U.S. Even at its current growth rates which have already been going on for thirty years and I highly doubt will last another thirty (I doubt even ten), it won't catch up to us until around 2035. Then you have to take the Non Performing Loans into the equation which means that around 20% of China's GDP is an inflated claim by the government. We also have to stop and think here for a moment that China's economy is almost entirely based on export and despite massive efforts by the government domestic spending in China isn't going anywhere so China has a structural limit of being unable to surpass a GDP worth much more than foreign demand and by foreign demand I mean the U.S retail market. The fact is that the very location of the U.S.A makes it extremely powerful as it has easier access to global trade than any country on the planet. The financial crisis is a passing bubble which has had a worse impact on China of all places than the U.S and once it passes the U.S will emerge only stronger than before. In the next decade or two China's growth will slow to a halt tensions will grow between the people and the government, the poor inland provinces and the rich coastal provinces and the chinese government and foreign governments who will want to see the country fracture. As for oil the U.S is working on decreasing dependence and its important to remember the U.S is the worlds third largest producer of oil making the only reason it costs so much the U.S economies own success.

From my previous post on Russia
I trust China more than Russia because in geopolitical terms NATO's prescence in the Baltics and eastern europe is to them a literal existential threat and I believe that as the next decade unfolds we'll see Russia unify with Belarus, push south in the Caucusus, establish very tight ties with Kazakhastan, bring Ukraine under their influence and try to bring about NATO's destruction. In the end it will fail as the U.S begins to apply economic and military pressure along with developing technologies undermining their main industry which is energy exports. This time I see Russia fracturing permanently and after it falls nations along its borders will swoop in and seize its former territories.

Ultimately, other avenues will have to be taken as markets are too intermingled to resort to Cold War practices. Thus, the Chinese and Russians have more wiggle room in their practices.

I completely disagree. In the case of Russia we have barely any economic interaction so the worst thing that could happen is Germany blocks NATO support for the baltics and some other eastern european nations in an attempt to avoid a cold war and keep Russia from cutting of natural gas. But in that case the U.S could just give them support directly while strengthening their economies through technology transfer. The eastern european nations hate Russia with a passion after their occupations and will be able to bite the natural gas bullet rather than give in (besides russia needs natural gas money almost as much as eastern europe needs natural gas so it will never be a permanent cutoff, more likely sporadic)

And China won't risk a cold war its just plain and simple not in their interest like it is for Russia.

 

[Ambracia]

It's NOT their territorial waters. The PRC claims the whole damn South China Sea as "their's," just like Taiwan is "their's." The surveillance ship was operating in what the PRC "claims" is their economic exclusion zone, and even if this claim was legitimate it would still be legal under international law. The unarmed surveillance ship consisted mostly of merchant marines anyway. Now they're going to have a real warship in the South China Sea. Good move China! If the PRC had a problem with the ship operating there, there are better ways of handling it than engaging in dangerous, confrontational maneuvers. I think this whole ordeal was a staged propaganda move to inspire nationalist sentiments.

I agree. China is trying to work up nationalism because the gov'ts losing support due to the economy.

 

[BulletWounD]

I agree. China is trying to work up nationalism because the gov'ts losing support due to the economy.

Are they? Source?

 

[OutoftheBox]

If the PRC had a problem with the ship operating there, there are better ways of handling it than engaging in dangerous, confrontational maneuvers. I think this whole ordeal was a staged propaganda move to inspire nationalist sentiments.

Absolutely. This brings one to believe that because the Chinese did react to this possible US encroachment in the manner than they did, might be their way of sending a message reminding the US that it's now in a weaker state militarily since 7 years ago and that China knows this. I'm also fairly sure that the other part of that message was to get Taiwan's attention as well in that the US won't always be there to protect it as much as the US once could.

 

[Ambracia]

Are they? Source?

Uhhh .... I just agreed with you ????

 

[BulletWounD]

Uhhh .... I just agreed with you ????

I'd like to know to what extent the government is losing support from the people due to the economic crisis. Do you have anything to back up that claim?

 

[Ambracia]

I'd like to know to what extent the government is losing support from the people due to the economic crisis. Do you have anything to back up that claim?

Oh :doh China prepares to clamp down on workers’ protests - Asia, World - The Independent

The articles a little old but a lot of other stuffs going on right now and the medias focusing on the Impeccable incident and Tibet more than civil unrest in the coast.

 

[BulletWounD]

Oh :doh China prepares to clamp down on workers’ protests - Asia, World - The Independent

The articles a little old but a lot of other stuffs going on right now and the medias focusing on the Impeccable incident and Tibet more than civil unrest in the coast.

Well, the US makes a handy scapegoat for the dissatisfied. They have to lie about Tibet to keep the people of China from identifying with the suffering of the Tibetans. Lies are the glue that holds a tyrannical regime together. They're fighting human nature and it wont last for long.

"Battling with heaven is endless joy, fighting with the earth is endless joy, and struggling with humanity is endless joy.” -Mao Zedong

For more about the Communists' war on nature, see this article