• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The US Attack On Iran Is Illegal.

Visbek said:
lol... Well, the only thing more complex on these matters than US law is international law. Again, it is absolutely NOT a slam dunk either way.
Click to expand...

So what's the legal justification?, cite the appropriate international laws?
Visbek said:
:rolleyes:

Right back at you there.

Sorry not sorry, but there are no retaliation or revenge clauses in international law governing military actions.
Click to expand...

Of course there is. You are allowed a proportionate response if you are attacked Read up on Proportionality to find out
 
oneworld2 said:
Why are you laughing like some mad bastard instead of addressing the point?

The US wasn;t attacked by Iran, that's totally obvious so all you can do is laugh ?

How pathetic is that!! lol
Click to expand...
😂
oneworld2 said:
Yep because it is a rogue state but that doesn't change the illegality of the attack itself
Click to expand...
It wasn’t illegal.
oneworld2 said:
Yes it is, as referred to in Article 2-3
Click to expand...
No it isn’t.
oneworld2 said:
" All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered."



Maybe not under US law ( but that's hardly a surprise ) but under international law definitely.
Click to expand...
UN has no jurisdiction over US actions. The UN is meaningless regarding US actions. Which were perfectly legal according to US law.
 
Visbek said:
It is very clear that Iran launched its completely ineffectual attack for show. That doesn't mean that the attack was legal under international law... especially if you're going to be super strict about the application of those laws.
Click to expand...

As a proportionate response to the illegal US attack it comes in low BUT I would rather defend this action in a court than the American attack on Irans nuclear facilities


Visbek said:
:rolleyes:

No, I'm just talking about US law. You even KNOW I was discussing US law. Yeesh.
Click to expand...

Which is not the subject of this thread btw
Visbek said:
Hello? I'm trying to make the point that these kinds of small scale attacks are NOT declarations of war. Try to keep up.
Click to expand...

They don't have to be declarations of war to be illegal actions
Visbek said:
I already explained it, and yes I'm talking about US law. Try to keep up.
Click to expand...

That's a different debate which has been pointed out on numerous occasions but you still insist on talking about it here.
 
rahl said:
The UN doesn’t override US law.
Click to expand...

Irrelevant to the debate on whether the US attack on Iran was legal under international law.

And nothing surprising about rogue states setting it up that way
 
oneworld2 said:
Why are you laughing like some mad bastard instead of addressing the point?

The US wasn;t attacked by Iran, that's totally obvious so all you can do is laugh ?

How pathetic is that!! lol



Yep because it is a rogue state but that doesn't change the illegality of the attack itself


Yes it is, as referred to in Article 2-3

" All Members shall settle their international disputes by peaceful means in such a manner that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered."



Maybe not under US law ( but that's hardly a surprise ) but under international law definitely.
Click to expand...
Constitution makes treaties the law of the land.
 
So, people want theocracy of Iran protected by international law? Yeah, this world's upside down.
 
rahl said:
International law has no relevance to US law or actions.
Click to expand...


Of course it does because you are signatory to the UN Charter and are thus legally bound by its rules to that degree.

Regardless of what trumps what , you have completely failed to present a case to support it NOT being illegal under international law.
 
pedex said:
Constitution makes treaties the law of the land.
Click to expand...


Which means what?

That it was legal under US law but illegal under international law?
 
L88 said:
So, people want theocracy of Iran protected by international law? Yeah, this world's upside down.
Click to expand...

Nope they want EVERYONE protected by international law. that's kind of the only real value it offers.

As a hopeless supporter of a thug state I get why you don't get that.
 
oneworld2 said:
Acts/Wars of genuine self defence or those authorized by the UNSC.

Acts of mass violence are also covered by IHL to limit civilian suffering
Click to expand...

That is what Israel is doing. Well done.
 
oneworld2 said:
So what's the legal justification?, cite the appropriate international laws?
Click to expand...
Sure, no problem. My rate is $500/hour.

oneworld2 said:
Of course there is. You are allowed a proportionate response if you are attacked Read up on Proportionality to find out
Click to expand...
That "proportionate response" has to meet certain standards, such as deterring future attacks. If you think Iran warning the US about an imminent missile attack, then lobbing a half dozen missiles at a heavily defended military base is a "deterrent," then you really need to sit down and think about what you're saying.
 
oneworld2 said:
Of course it does because you are signatory to the UN Charter and are thus legally bound by its rules to that degree.
Click to expand...
No we aren’t. There is exactly nothing the UN can do or the international court lol.
oneworld2 said:
Regardless of what trumps what , you have completely failed to present a case to support it NOT being illegal under international law.
Click to expand...
International law is meaningless and has no relevance to US law.
 
oneworld2 said:
Which means what?

That it was legal under US law but illegal under international law?
Click to expand...
Means UN Charter is in effect a US law which means any attack on another UN members without security council approval is illegal both as US law and international.
 
pedex said:
Means UN Charter is in effect a US law which means any attack on another UN members without security council approval is illegal both as US law and international.
Click to expand...
The UN Charter isn't "law" in any meaningful sense of the word. It's a set of principals nothing more.
 
Fledermaus said:
Are we speaking of the same Iran that fired off hundreds of rockets, missiles and drones against Israel not so long ago?
Click to expand...

You mean in response to Israel attacking them?
 
oneworld2 said:
I can't recall seeing a thread with this title and so....................

The USA is now adding Iran to the list of countries it has illegally attacked since 2001.

Are the Americans here happy with their toxic rogue state hit list?

Aren't they embarrassed when they try to call out others for their crimes while having their own arses firmly hanging out of the window?

Do they still believe the US bs propaganda about their own self proclaimed sanctity ?
Click to expand...
oneworld2:

The US Government has not formally declared a war it has prosecuted since entering WWII. The craven US Congress has abjured its constitutional responsibility to be sole declarer of war for about 84 years now and has made no attempt to rein in the imperial presidency or the hyper-militaristic Administration; nor the rising authoritarianism of the US state and its law enforcement institutions. The attack on Iran, like so many others (and not just American attacks on Iran) was in violation with UN rules to which the US and other states have explicitly signed on to. So, yes the actions of the Trump Administration were illegal according to the US Constitution and to the UN Charter. But those illegalities now have a long pedigree of custom and usage. However don't despair too much. That same impunity to show restraint from the Rule of Law is coming home to roost in America and Israel alike, as both states are quietly trying to lay the ground work for greater authoritarianism while undermining the constitution/Basic Law of each state as well as the democracy in their respective states. Soon the arrogance and impunity of this authoritarian militarism will reach its full flower, as these states turn their militaries and paramilitaries against their own people in earnest and impose their rule over their soon to be "subjects" rather than their former 'citizens'. The empires are coming home to roost from the hinterlands to recolonise and crush the heartland and to make all subject to the will of the powerful few. Soon Americans and Israelis will have more in common with the average Iranian people then they ever imagined not by liberating Iranians but rather from harsh rule by the draconian subjugation of their own citizens by the state to gradually harsher and more intolerant rule.

The present-day comment which best sums this determined creep towards the general acceptance of authoritarianism in light of the attacks on Iran is: that the US surprise strike was not an act of war against Iran but rather a necessary attack on the Iranian nuclear programme only. Imagine if Imperial Japan had attempted to use that tripe about the surprise attack on Pearl Harbor in December of 1941 - that it had not been an act of war against America but rather a necessary attack on the American naval blockade programme only! Americans swallow this crap today with little thought but the vast majority would have never swallowed such codswallop in early 1942.

The world is surrendering to lawlessness once again as the international system is breaking down. My hope is that enough countries who care about the Rule of Law, Democracy and Liberty can band together to hold off this descent into lawlessness long enough that other peoples wake up and throw off their would-be tyrants and kings. Iran is definitely in need of regime change. However so are China, Russia, India, America and Israel to name but five. I don't want to live in a global Haiti where might is right alone. Does anybody here want that? I hope to hell not.

Evilroddy.
 
Visbek said:
Sure, no problem. My rate is $500/hour.


That "proportionate response" has to meet certain standards, such as deterring future attacks. If you think Iran warning the US about an imminent missile attack, then lobbing a half dozen missiles at a heavily defended military base is a "deterrent," then you really need to sit down and think about what you're saying.
Click to expand...

So, for the record you never provided a justification for your claim.

Anyone who pays you $500/hour for ANYTHING needs urgent help imo
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom