The US and the rogue state committed a Pearl Harbor attack

[Craig234]

There was a time the US has some idea of 'honor'. We were the 'good guys' because we wouldn't do some things that were 'bad guy' things, to put it simplistically but largely accurately. When the US was attacked at Pearl Harbor, the US was enraged by viewing it as a 'sneak attack', which they saw as wrong, contributing to Japanese stereotypes - with the idea that 'the US would never do that'.

When JFK had the Cuban Missile Crisis, and met with the group he assigned to advise him, the advice was almost unanimous to launch an air strike against Cuba. Robert Kennedy famously handed his brother a persuasive note which said, IIRC, "Now I know how Tojo felt at Pearl Harbor". I.e., the US doesn't do such a sneak attack.

That might seem naive today, but it has continued somewhat. Colin Powell asked his Chief of Staff, Lawrence Wilkerson, to write a plan how to surprise Saddam with an attack. Wilkerson wrote a plan for the US to say it was planning diplomacy, not war, to lower the wariness of Saddam.

Powell praised the plan, but said it would also deceive the American people, and the US did not do that, and ordered it destroyed.

That's exactly what the rogue state and trump did to Iran. Three hours before the unprovoked attack on Iran, trump tweeted that his administration was committed to a diplomatic solution and was continuing talks that Sunday. This had the effect of Iran not protecting its leaders, who were assassinated.

That was a deceitful act which tarnishes the US reputation for the foreseeable future, bringing the world closer to lying in diplomacy and murdering negotiating partners to being a norm. It was America committing a Pearl Harbor. Indeed, Japan had planned the same move, but was delayed sending the communication about diplomacy.

 

[VySky]

There was a time the US has some idea of 'honor'. We were the 'good guys' because we wouldn't do some things that were 'bad guy' things, to put it simplistically but largely accurately. When the US was attacked at Pearl Harbor, the US was enraged by viewing it as a 'sneak attack', which they saw as wrong, contributing to Japanese stereotypes - with the idea that 'the US would never do that'.

When JFK had the Cuban Missile Crisis, and met with the group he assigned to advise him, the advice was almost unanimous to launch an air strike against Cuba. Robert Kennedy famously handed his brother a persuasive note which said, IIRC, "Now I know how Tojo felt at Pearl Harbor". I.e., the US doesn't do such a sneak attack.

That might seem naive today, but it has continued somewhat. Colin Powell asked his Chief of Staff, Lawrence Wilkerson, to write a plan how to surprise Saddam with an attack. Wilkerson wrote a plan for the US to say it was planning diplomacy, not war, to lower the wariness of Saddam.

Powell praised the plan, but said it would also deceive the American people, and the US did not do that, and ordered it destroyed.

That's exactly what the rogue state and trump did to Iran. Three hours before the unprovoked attack on Iran, trump tweeted that his administration was committed to a diplomatic solution and was continuing talks that Sunday. This had the effect of Iran not protecting its leaders, who were assassinated.

That was a deceitful act which tarnishes the US reputation for the foreseeable future, bringing the world closer to lying in diplomacy and murdering negotiating partners to being a norm. It was America committing a Pearl Harbor. Indeed, Japan had planned the same move, but was delayed sending the communication about diplomacy.

False comparison.

 

[multivita-man]

There was a time the US has some idea of 'honor'. We were the 'good guys'

Debatable. That really depends on which hemisphere or side of the equator you're on.

 

[Craig234]

Debatable. That really depends on which hemisphere or side of the equator you're on.

To clarify, I'm discussing how Americans saw things. That those were things in the American political culture. Of course there's a lot more to it - for example, see Smedley Butler's book and a lot of history.

 

[Loulit01]

See Israel and the Six-Day war.

 

[bythoughts]

You can't expect great deliberations of diplomacy to happen by "tweet". The site is just a newsfotainment hub. Talking about negotiations there is several steps below an appearance on Good Morning America. Iranians should have known anything said there would be a lie.

Yeah, that's how all politics and journalism is done nowadays, isn't it. I'm not sure searching for #honor is going to make up for that.

 

[Craig234]

You can't expect great deliberations of diplomacy to happen by "tweet". The site is just a newsfotainment hub. Talking about negotiations there is several steps below an appearance on Good Morning America. Iranians should have known anything said there would be a lie.

That's not correct, though. First, it's clear any 'private' communications were consistent with the tweet, all telling Iran the US was committed to a diplomatic approach, not military action. Second, trump lied to Iran, the American people, and the world, greatly harming US credibility, in what as I said was a 'Pearl Harbor' attack.

 

[bythoughts]

First, it's clear any 'private' communications were consistent with the tweet,

How do you know that? For all I know, the pro wrestling executives in the Trump administration have already choreographed every fake punch, tumble, and chair slap in the entire U.S.-Iran confrontation, and both sides are just playing their roles to impress domestic audiences.

 

[Craig234]

How do you know that? For all I know, the pro wrestling executives in the Trump administration have already choreographed every fake punch, tumble, and chair slap in the entire U.S.-Iran confrontation, and both sides are just playing their roles to impress domestic audiences.

Sometimes a topic sort of defies explanation, but can have an appeal to common sense. What would be the logic in trump privately telling Iran, "you are going to be bombed on June 13th, but I'm going to publicly say you aren't, you can ignore that"? No, the whole thing only makes sense as a deception to Iran, which includes public and private.

 

[Mycroft]

There was a time the US has some idea of 'honor'. We were the 'good guys' because we wouldn't do some things that were 'bad guy' things, to put it simplistically but largely accurately. When the US was attacked at Pearl Harbor, the US was enraged by viewing it as a 'sneak attack', which they saw as wrong, contributing to Japanese stereotypes - with the idea that 'the US would never do that'.

When JFK had the Cuban Missile Crisis, and met with the group he assigned to advise him, the advice was almost unanimous to launch an air strike against Cuba. Robert Kennedy famously handed his brother a persuasive note which said, IIRC, "Now I know how Tojo felt at Pearl Harbor". I.e., the US doesn't do such a sneak attack.

That might seem naive today, but it has continued somewhat. Colin Powell asked his Chief of Staff, Lawrence Wilkerson, to write a plan how to surprise Saddam with an attack. Wilkerson wrote a plan for the US to say it was planning diplomacy, not war, to lower the wariness of Saddam.

Powell praised the plan, but said it would also deceive the American people, and the US did not do that, and ordered it destroyed.

That's exactly what the rogue state and trump did to Iran. Three hours before the unprovoked attack on Iran, trump tweeted that his administration was committed to a diplomatic solution and was continuing talks that Sunday. This had the effect of Iran not protecting its leaders, who were assassinated.

That was a deceitful act which tarnishes the US reputation for the foreseeable future, bringing the world closer to lying in diplomacy and murdering negotiating partners to being a norm. It was America committing a Pearl Harbor. Indeed, Japan had planned the same move, but was delayed sending the communication about diplomacy.

Your comparison falsely assumes the US took part in Israel's attack on Iran.

Trump, on the other hand, is quite open and clear that he intends to obliterate Fordo if Iran doesn't give up nukes.