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The ups and downs of global warming

Joe1991

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Although the current red-herring of the slight global cooling trend has been addressed in many threads, it is brought up enough by GW deniers that I believe a full thread is needed to dismiss this falsehood.

Climate Change: News

According to the vast majority of climate scientists, the planet is heating up. Scientists have concluded that this appears to be the result of increased human emissions of greenhouse gases, especially carbon dioxide, which trap heat near the surface of Earth. However, some information sources — blogs, websites, media articles and other voices — highlight that the planet has been cooling since a peak in global temperature in 1998. This cooling is only part of the picture, according to a JPL climate scientist and a recent study that has looked at the world's temperature record over the past century or more.

In their recently published research paper entitled "Is the climate warming or cooling?", David Easterling of the U.S. National Climate Data Center and Michael Wehner of Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory show that naturally occurring periods of no warming or even slight cooling can easily be part of a longer-term pattern of global warming.

These temperature plateaus, or cooling spells, can be attributed to natural climate variability, explains Josh Willis, a climate scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. and a recent recipient of the 2009 Presidential Early Career Award for Scientists and Engineers. "Natural variability refers to naturally-occurring fluctuations or events that change Earth's climate on time scales ranging from years to decades. Big volcanic eruptions, for instance, can cause cooling that lasts for several years. When a volcano erupts, it blasts dust into the upper atmosphere where it reflects sunlight and cools the planet, a bit like a natural umbrella."

He goes on, "There are also all kinds of natural fluctuations that sometimes cause warming, sometimes cooling." Ocean changes, for instance, can have a big impact on the world's temperature. One example that Willis cites is the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, a pattern of warmer and cooler surface temperatures in the Pacific Ocean that can last between 10 and 30 years.

Another important example is El Niño, which is an abnormal warming of surface ocean waters in the eastern tropical Pacific that happens every three to eight years and can affect global temperatures for a year or two. Between 1997 and 1998, there was an unusually strong El Niño, and this caused 1998 to be one of the hottest years on record (Figure 1). When Easterling and Wehner dropped the 1998 temperature spike from the data altogether, and zoomed in on the readings from 1999 to 2008, they saw a strong warming trend over this period. But when the 1998 measurement is included in the data, it looks as if there is no overall warming between 1998 and 2008 at all.

The authors say that it is easy to 'cherry-pick' a period to reinforce a particular point of view. "Claims that global warming is not occurring that are derived from a cooling observed over short time periods ignore natural variability and are misleading."

What you have to look at, says Willis, is the long-term temperature readings that have been collected over the past century — which is exactly what Easterling and Wehner do in their study. Over that sort of time scale, global warming becomes apparent from observations of both our atmosphere and our ocean, which are intimately linked pieces of the climate puzzle.

As Willis explains, global warming is a long-term process. "Despite the fact it's been warmer and cooler at different times in the last 10 years, there's no part of the last 10 years that isn't warmer than the temperatures we saw 100 years ago."

Assuming our greenhouse gas emissions continue at their present levels with little reduction, existing climate forecasts suggest that our planet will warm by about 4° C (7.2° F) by the end of the 21st century. Although scientists continue to study the nuances of Earth's climate, the link between carbon emissions, global warming and sea level rise over the past century is clear. Even if our global carbon emissions began to fall tomorrow, Earth would continue to warm for some time due to the inertia of the climate system6.

"In the next century it's definitely going to get warmer," Willis says. "You don't need a crystal ball or fancy climate model to say that. Just look at the sea level and temperature records from the past 100 years — they're all going up." Likewise, Easterling and Wehner's work reminds us that understanding climate change — one of the most important challenges we face today — requires a long-term view. "Unlike people," says Willis, "the climate has a very long memory."


fig2_small.jpg
 
Although the current red-herring of the slight global cooling trend has been addressed in many threads, it is brought up enough by GW deniers that I believe a full thread is needed to dismiss this falsehood.

I'd like to see an article or study that opines on the as-yet-unproved theory of catastrophic, anthropogenic global warming without, at some point, using the word "consensus."

Also, I'd like to read solutions proposed by someone who has conducted an independent study of the theory, concluded that the dire predictions of catastrophic global warming have merit, and whose solutions not only do not require the hobbling of the U.S. economy, but rather recognize the enormous power of the free market to better fund and find solutions to global threats.

I'd also like to see some paper trail that details sources of funding for those in the global warming crowd who aver that any possible solution to this "problem" necessarily requires restrictions on the ability of U.S. markets and industry to operate as freely as they do currently.
 
I'd like to see an article or study that opines on the as-yet-unproved theory of catastrophic, anthropogenic global warming without, at some point, using the word "consensus."

Also, I'd like to read solutions proposed by someone who has conducted an independent study of the theory, concluded that the dire predictions of catastrophic global warming have merit, and whose solutions not only do not require the hobbling of the U.S. economy, but rather recognize the enormous power of the free market to better fund and find solutions to global threats.

I'd also like to see some paper trail that details sources of funding for those in the global warming crowd who aver that any possible solution to this "problem" necessarily requires restrictions on the ability of U.S. markets and industry to operate as freely as they do currently.

...and I'd like a pony.
 
...and I'd like a pony.

Oooh! Good comeback. Wow, I guess that shows me. OK, well done. I concede that my argument is nowhere near being in the same league as the "...and I'd like a pony" refutation.

As tangential as this might be (and without requiring any substantive argument on the merits, but merely noting to whatever extent it provides a cultural barometer), when South Park makes fun of something, whoever is offended ought to take a look at what their being offended means. Usually it means that the tide has turned against them. Guess where South Park comes down on the "green movement"? Again, I'm not advancing this as an argument, merely as an observation. I know it doesn't make or refute a case.

The "pony" argument, however, if it's the best you can do, has its own indications.
 
Science is not a democracy. Having the most votes means nothing.

I've heard this silly argument, but science is democratic; in that it is peer-reviewed explanations of observable data.
Now that doesn't necessarily make it a fact, just the current "best evidence".

If 1000 scientists look through a telescope, and 999 of them say a small meteor is hurtling towards your home, you'd be a bit foolish to go by the one scientist who says otherwise.
 
Oooh! Good comeback. Wow, I guess that shows me. OK, well done. I concede that my argument is nowhere near being in the same league as the "...and I'd like a pony" refutation.

You didn't make an argument, you made an ignorant GW denier wish list.
 
**yawn**

Something I learned by age 10: weather and climate change, and it's pointless to complain about either or to demand that something be done.

I think that most of us would rather address far more pressing and relevant issues, such as for instance, why toasters don't toast the second batch of toast to the same extent as the first.
 
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Although the current red-herring of the slight global cooling trend has been addressed in many threads, it is brought up enough by GW deniers that I believe a full thread is needed to dismiss this falsehood.

You mean, there are people that still haven't figured out that it's the SUN that has the greatest impact on our climate???

It's really quite simple : Sun heats up, solar system heats up... Sun produces less energy, solar system cools...

According to the vast majority of climate scientists, the planet is heating up.

Not for a number of years it hasn't.

Scientists have concluded that this appears to be the result of increased human emissions of greenhouse gases, especially carbon dioxide, which trap heat near the surface of Earth.

In spite of the fact that the GW catastrophists have a humbling 0% accuracy in their predictions to date.


However, some information sources — blogs, websites, media articles and other voices — highlight that the planet has been cooling since a peak in global temperature in 1998. This cooling is only part of the picture, according to a JPL climate scientist and a recent study that has looked at the world's temperature record over the past century or more.

So the 'consensus' is down to 1 scientist???

In their recently published research paper entitled "Is the climate warming or cooling?", David Easterling of the U.S. National Climate Data Center and Michael Wehner of Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory show that naturally occurring periods of no warming or even slight cooling can easily be part of a longer-term pattern of global warming.

So, instead of doing like they did after the 70's when they realized that we were NOT going into an ice age, and changed their tune to 'global warming will boil us all alive'... this time our scientist friend is telling us that the earth is still catastrophically heating because of carbon dioxide... just that over the past 10+ years is just a flawed few datapoints that don't really reflect the true warming trend???

I don't know about anyone else, but this guy really does sound like he's blaming the climate for not suiting his predictions... rather then accepting that his interpretation was flawed.

These temperature plateaus, or cooling spells, can be attributed to natural climate variability,

The whole 'global warming' debate should have ended here... 'natural climate variability' I mean seriously, we don't have climate models that can predict the weather 7 days out with anything more then a 50% accuracy, yet they claim they can predict the environmental catastrophy 10-20-100 years down the road.

explains Josh Willis, a climate scientist at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif. and a recent recipient of the 2009 Presidential Early Career Award for Scientists and Engineers. "Natural variability refers to naturally-occurring fluctuations or events that change Earth's climate on time scales ranging from years to decades. Big volcanic eruptions, for instance, can cause cooling that lasts for several years. When a volcano erupts, it blasts dust into the upper atmosphere where it reflects sunlight and cools the planet, a bit like a natural umbrella."

I can't disagree with this one... though, even NASA some years back published a study which linked the heating / cooling trends to solar activity... NASA probably didn't tell this scientist about that one.

He goes on, "There are also all kinds of natural fluctuations that sometimes cause warming, sometimes cooling." Ocean changes, for instance, can have a big impact on the world's temperature. One example that Willis cites is the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, a pattern of warmer and cooler surface temperatures in the Pacific Ocean that can last between 10 and 30 years.

Also true... but this means that oceans have a bigger impact then human production of the same things attributed to warming... funny that it's the oceans production of CO2 which is the greates producer which shoot out CO2 up to several hundred years AFTER the heating.

Another important example is El Niño, which is an abnormal warming of surface ocean waters in the eastern tropical Pacific that happens every three to eight years and can affect global temperatures for a year or two. Between 1997 and 1998, there was an unusually strong El Niño, and this caused 1998 to be one of the hottest years on record (Figure 1). When Easterling and Wehner dropped the 1998 temperature spike from the data altogether, and zoomed in on the readings from 1999 to 2008, they saw a strong warming trend over this period. But when the 1998 measurement is included in the data, it looks as if there is no overall warming between 1998 and 2008 at all.

The authors say that it is easy to 'cherry-pick' a period to reinforce a particular point of view. "Claims that global warming is not occurring that are derived from a cooling observed over short time periods ignore natural variability and are misleading."[/quote]

Gotta love this quote... it's essentially saying that if you don't buy into our theory it's because you ignore natural variability... but global warming will still kill us all.

What you have to look at, says Willis, is the long-term temperature readings that have been collected over the past century — which is exactly what Easterling and Wehner do in their study. Over that sort of time scale, global warming becomes apparent from observations of both our atmosphere and our ocean, which are intimately linked pieces of the climate puzzle.

Even a century is NOT long enough to determine catastrophic warming... there have been times in earths history HOTTER then we see today, and what do you know... it was a great BENEFIT to humanity to live in such a warm climate.

As Willis explains, global warming is a long-term process. "Despite the fact it's been warmer and cooler at different times in the last 10 years, there's no part of the last 10 years that isn't warmer than the temperatures we saw 100 years ago."

This is so clearly cherry picked information I shouldn't even have to point it out directly.

Assuming our greenhouse gas emissions continue at their present levels with little reduction, existing climate forecasts suggest that our planet will warm by about 4° C (7.2° F) by the end of the 21st century. Although scientists continue to study the nuances of Earth's climate, the link between carbon emissions, global warming and sea level rise over the past century is clear. Even if our global carbon emissions began to fall tomorrow, Earth would continue to warm for some time due to the inertia of the climate system6.

Not a word about the SUN... You want 'climate change'... 40degrees in the morning can turn to 90 degrees by midday... I can guarantee it's not 'carbon dioxide' that creates that heat as much as the sun's energy throughout the day.

"In the next century it's definitely going to get warmer," Willis says. "You don't need a crystal ball or fancy climate model to say that. Just look at the sea level and temperature records from the past 100 years — they're all going up." Likewise, Easterling and Wehner's work reminds us that understanding climate change — one of the most important challenges we face today — requires a long-term view. "Unlike people," says Willis, "the climate has a very long memory."

Well thank you professor... too bad you're stuck on the 100 year trend, when the 500 year, 1000 year, and 100 000 year trends would speak differently.

Thanks GW enthusiast for the 'debunk' I'm utterly convinced... now I will help institute a carbon tax to make sure that you gotta pay government 20$ a day for the priveledge of 'breathing' that will ONLY affect the US... don't worry, if you don't have the money to pay your breathing tax, a swat team will be over to take care of the situation, so don't worry.
 
I've heard this silly argument, but science is democratic; in that it is peer-reviewed explanations of observable data.
Now that doesn't necessarily make it a fact, just the current "best evidence".

If 1000 scientists look through a telescope, and 999 of them say a small meteor is hurtling towards your home, you'd be a bit foolish to go by the one scientist who says otherwise.

Ah, but in that case they have actually verified the claim, not just reviewed it (or buckled to the academic pressure that they conform, which so many of those who are now breaking ranks mention).
 
You didn't make an argument, you made an ignorant GW denier wish list.

For a minute there, I considered typing out the arguments inherent in my post. But then I thought "Why inform the other side of where the side of reason is going with this issue?"

So, never mind. Just ignore my wish list. Forget all about it. It's not important. You will forget... you will forget...
 
Climate is very important to humans. This tiny dot in the universe partly provides the climate we need. Let's hope the warmists are wrong, but let's not assume they're wrong.
 
...and I'd like a pony.
Bishop Jomo I didnt know you new cockney rhyming slang.

Pony and trap= crap, it is as Bishop Jomo used it shortened to pony=crap:)
 
Climate is very important to humans. This tiny dot in the universe partly provides the climate we need. Let's hope the warmists are wrong, but let's not assume they're wrong.

Fine, but conversely let's not assume that they're right, especially if such an assumption requires that we hobble the one economy that might actually be able to do something about it.

Look, if the "warmists" are right (and I still say they aren't) then we have a couple of options available to us if we want to address the issue: we can do everything in our power to shut down the evil capitalistic machine that has created the issue, or we can use the capitalistic machine to do what it does best - employ its financial might to encourage the research and development of better technologies. If the warmists are right, then there's money to be made in the solution.

Unless it's actually capitalism qua capitalism that is the warmists' real target.
 
Fine, but conversely let's not assume that they're right, especially if such an assumption requires that we hobble the one economy that might actually be able to do something about it.

Look, if the "warmists" are right (and I still say they aren't) then we have a couple of options available to us if we want to address the issue: we can do everything in our power to shut down the evil capitalistic machine that has created the issue, or we can use the capitalistic machine to do what it does best - employ its financial might to encourage the research and development of better technologies. If the warmists are right, then there's money to be made in the solution.

Unless it's actually capitalism qua capitalism that is the warmists' real target.

"Pacifist propaganda," Orwell wrote in the 1940s, "usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writings of the younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States. Moreover they do not as a rule condemn violence as such, but only violence used in defense of the western countries."

I'm aware that the 'pacifists' have taken an interest in global warming. A lot of left wing parties in my country do not wish to cut emissions, they just want to tax it and fund their pet projects. That said, the market may require some help if they're unable to regulate emissions themselves.
 
"Pacifist propaganda," Orwell wrote in the 1940s, "usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other, but if one looks closely at the writings of the younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States. Moreover they do not as a rule condemn violence as such, but only violence used in defense of the western countries."

I'm aware that the 'pacifists' have taken an interest in global warming. A lot of left wing parties in my country do not wish to cut emissions, they just want to tax it and fund their pet projects. That said, the market may require some help if they're unable to regulate emissions themselves.

I appreciate and share your affection of Orwell. He's always been one of my favorites. I was a disadvantaged youth when I first read 1984. Oh, I was not economically disadvantaged - I was politically impoverished. Yes, my parents were '60s liberals. My mom still is, although I call her an unreformed Kennedy Democrat. She still believes that her Democrat party is of one accord with the principles espoused by JFK. My dad has evolved and is now at least as conservative as am I, but I was the first to break ranks.

Also, the kudos is yours for not shirking from using the word "pacifist." Well done.

I'm in agreement with everything you write... up to your last sentence. First, I'm not sure that regulating emissions is necessary. I don't buy the "catastrophic and anthropogenic" school of thought advanced by the "pacifists." The perspective required for you to so identify them seems to indicate that you share my reluctance. Am I wrong here?

As to any help the market might need, would you agree with the "pacifists" that government is best suited to provide that help? If so, how do you distinguish yourself from them?

If there is indeed a "catastrophic and anthropogenic" global warming problem, isn't the free market best equipped to find the solutions?

Moreover, isn't the fact that the "pacifists" have taken such an interest in this issue reason enough to question the left's proposed solutions?
 
I appreciate and share your affection of Orwell. He's always been one of my favorites. I was a disadvantaged youth when I first read 1984. Oh, I was not economically disadvantaged - I was politically impoverished. Yes, my parents were '60s liberals. My mom still is, although I call her an unreformed Kennedy Democrat. She still believes that her Democrat party is of one accord with the principles espoused by JFK. My dad has evolved and is now at least as conservative as am I, but I was the first to break ranks.

Also, the kudos is yours for not shirking from using the word "pacifist." Well done.

I'm in agreement with everything you write... up to your last sentence. First, I'm not sure that regulating emissions is necessary. I don't buy the "catastrophic and anthropogenic" school of thought advanced by the "pacifists." The perspective required for you to so identify them seems to indicate that you share my reluctance. Am I wrong here?

As to any help the market might need, would you agree with the "pacifists" that government is best suited to provide that help? If so, how do you distinguish yourself from them?

If there is indeed a "catastrophic and anthropogenic" global warming problem, isn't the free market best equipped to find the solutions?

Moreover, isn't the fact that the "pacifists" have taken such an interest in this issue reason enough to question the left's proposed solutions?
The difference between me and the ‘pacifist’ when it comes to the market is that I do not support a controlled market, where government regulate prices or supply. I just have a broad view when it comes to property rights.
If we are indeed influencing climate, the consequences could be catastrophic. No reluctance so far. If climate change is caused by CO2 emissions, it makes sense to cut CO2 emissions. I have become more reluctant but the theory has not become an orwellian nightmare yet.
Only once you start talking about solutions, you’ll be confronted with the fact that this topic was hijacked by left wing demagogues, anti-western ‘pacifists’, the type Orwell described a long time ago. That’s why I think we should devote more time on the proposed solutions, and differentiate the viable ones from the ones that serve another agenda.
 
The difference between me and the ‘pacifist’ when it comes to the market is that I do not support a controlled market, where government regulate prices or supply. I just have a broad view when it comes to property rights.
If we are indeed influencing climate, the consequences could be catastrophic. No reluctance so far. If climate change is caused by CO2 emissions, it makes sense to cut CO2 emissions. I have become more reluctant but the theory has not become an orwellian nightmare yet.
Only once you start talking about solutions, you’ll be confronted with the fact that this topic was hijacked by left wing demagogues, anti-western ‘pacifists’, the type Orwell described a long time ago. That’s why I think we should devote more time on the proposed solutions, and differentiate the viable ones from the ones that serve another agenda.

I appreciate your approach, and I think you'll agree that the prerequisite to analyzing the proposed solutions to a given problem is objectively defining the problem. This hasn't yet been done when it comes to global warming, especially with regard to CO2 emissions.
 
I appreciate your approach, and I think you'll agree that the prerequisite to analyzing the proposed solutions to a given problem is objectively defining the problem.
I had to read that sentence a couple of times. In my defense, it's still early in the morning on this side of the pond.
This hasn't yet been done when it comes to global warming, especially with regard to CO2 emissions.
In the meantime, we can disregard all the proposed solutions that do nothing to cut CO2 emissions.
 
I had to read that sentence a couple of times. In my defense, it's still early in the morning on this side of the pond.

No worries, my friend. We all have to navigate mornings.

In the meantime, we can disregard all the proposed solutions that do nothing to cut CO2 emissions.

Yes, because in the absence of solid and independently verifiable evidence, it is better not to act than it is to act in error. The idea that it's better to be safe than sorry is ill-applied in this case, as an incorrect diagnosis of the problem might result in an attempted remedy that hobbles our ability to address the real problem (because of the poorly allocated resources spent in pursuit of a chimera).

We have the obligation to be right.
 
I've heard this silly argument, but science is democratic; in that it is peer-reviewed explanations of observable data.
Now that doesn't necessarily make it a fact, just the current "best evidence".

If 1000 scientists look through a telescope, and 999 of them say a small meteor is hurtling towards your home, you'd be a bit foolish to go by the one scientist who says otherwise.

Science is democratic??? Not THAT's a silly comment. Democracy has no place in science; however, the current crop of "scientists" seem to think so. Peer review is NOT a voting process.... it's a vetting process, that is if its allowed to work as it should. The problem with peer review and climate science is that its more of a cheer leading function than a scientific one.
 
The difference between me and the ‘pacifist’ when it comes to the market is that I do not support a controlled market, where government regulate prices or supply. I just have a broad view when it comes to property rights.
If we are indeed influencing climate, the consequences could be catastrophic. No reluctance so far. If climate change is caused by CO2 emissions, it makes sense to cut CO2 emissions. I have become more reluctant but the theory has not become an orwellian nightmare yet.

Except that CO2 represents only a small fraction of the gases that make up the atmosphere, and the whole of humanity accounts for only a small fraction of the total CO2 production in our atmosphere...

So, in other words... we're trying to say that this fraction of a fraction of our atmosphere is the big problem that will kill us all... Meanwhile ignoring the gigantic multi-million year old nuclear furnace in the sky.

If you go find club of Rome documents from about 30 years ago, they will tell you how they intented to use 'environmental crisis' in order to implement a global tax on carbon emissions, to eventually go as extreme as a tax on breathing. Not to mention that Al Gore is pushing this so much because he owns a 'carbon trading' company that will tremendously benefit from this type of tax.... he doesn't care about the environment, he cares about HIS bottom line.

Oil companies also support carbon taxes... it will allow them to raise the price of oil in the name of the environment.

Only once you start talking about solutions, you’ll be confronted with the fact that this topic was hijacked by left wing demagogues, anti-western ‘pacifists’, the type Orwell described a long time ago. That’s why I think we should devote more time on the proposed solutions, and differentiate the viable ones from the ones that serve another agenda.

Right... you want to stop the REAL environmental problems here are some of the areas that need to be looked at :
- Genetic modification of foods (we simply don't have a good enough grasp of genetics, also rather then modifications which would benefit the world, the modifications of food mostly deal with insecticides and sterile seeds)
- HAARP
- High altitude aerosols (Chemtrails)
- Industrial waste
- Deforestation
- over-fishing
- heavy metal usage
and so on...

There are REAL environmental issues going on, that's why so many people buy into this whole 'green agenda'. Yet, like you said, much of this agenda has been co-opted for a purpose that has nothing to do with the environment, but rather in turning humanity into a neo-sharecrop-serfdom with a technocratic overlay that Orwell was writing about in his book (however, he didn't know how far science would come after the writing of 1984... which there is evidence to say that the author was killed for writing that book... I don't remember the details, but I had a real good english teacher in grade 12 who made us read that book that told us this)
 
I've heard this silly argument, but science is democratic; in that it is peer-reviewed explanations of observable data.
Now that doesn't necessarily make it a fact, just the current "best evidence".

If 1000 scientists look through a telescope, and 999 of them say a small meteor is hurtling towards your home, you'd be a bit foolish to go by the one scientist who says otherwise.

By this logic, Galileo, as well as every other scientist who dared disagree with the "scientific consensus" was wrong.
 
I'd like to see an article or study that opines on the as-yet-unproved theory of catastrophic, anthropogenic global warming without, at some point, using the word "consensus."

Would you accept "meta-study"?

The problem is that the system is so complex that it is not just one or two papers it is thousands of research papers that have had to be analysed to get enough data to formulate what is happening.

I linked to a paper on hurricanes the other day and it had 15 pages of references!! And hurricanes are just one aspect of AGW!

Also, I'd like to read solutions proposed by someone who has conducted an independent study of the theory, concluded that the dire predictions of catastrophic global warming have merit, and whose solutions not only do not require the hobbling of the U.S. economy, but rather recognize the enormous power of the free market to better fund and find solutions to global threats.

Google Stern review (British Government commissioned so Al Gore free) and the Garnaut report (Australian Government commissioned so also Al Gore free)
I'd also like to see some paper trail that details sources of funding for those in the global warming crowd who aver that any possible solution to this "problem" necessarily requires restrictions on the ability of U.S. markets and industry to operate as freely as they do currently.

NO!!

This is YOUR homework - do it yourself!
 
By this logic, Galileo, as well as every other scientist who dared disagree with the "scientific consensus" was wrong.

Also, by the same logic - then the 1970's discussion on ice ages was also correct - in it's time and place

But you are not taking Joe's point - it is one thing to challenge a paradigm - and that is allowed -even encouraged - it is another to deny that 999 scientists who saw the meteorite are wrong just because you do not like the news they are telling you.
 
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