• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The ULTIMATE EVIDENCE: Your Own Proof

tosca1 said:
You can be a skeptic.
I'm not saying you can't respond. BUT,

be on-topic!




I'm scratching my head here, wondering why some folks here seem to be bent on giving irrelevant stuffs...........even after it's shown to them why it's irrelevant.


Surely, if you got something on-topic or relevant, you would be giving it.......................won't you?





Okay, if you got something relevant to say about personal experience mentioned here.........................let's hear it.
Click to expand...
I was on topic, my own proof as you call it disagrees with the claims you made in your OP.
 
Airyaman said:
None of what you list is "proof", it's just you believing it is.
Click to expand...


#21.



It appears to be enough for you,
Click to expand...


It's enough for the person who experienced it.
Enough................... that he got converted.






but none of it even is worth my own consideration.
Click to expand...

You're not being asked to validate their experience. 😁


All this thread is doing is give some reputable people that had gone through various kinds of experience - experience that had given them their own proof of GOD.
They all have their own varying story on the proof that they got!


I'm not asking you to own them! :)
 
Individual said:
I was on topic, my own proof as you call it disagrees with the claims you made in your OP.
Click to expand...


I don't think you get the point of the OP.

So, you have your own proof that there is no God. Fine.

I'm not going to try to argue about your experience or what proof has made you an atheist...........after all, it's not me who had experience it.
But it will make for a good discussion in another thread. Maybe you should start a thread on why you do not believe.
Perhaps, we'll see a lot of reasons coming from skeptics.


But that's not what this thread is all about.
This thread is about those............. people who found their own personal proof that made them become believers.
 
tosca1 said:
I don't think you get the point of the OP.

So, you have your own proof that there is no God. Fine.

I'm not going to try to argue about your experience or what proof has made you an atheist...........after all, it's not me who had experience it.
But it will make for a good discussion in another thread. Maybe you should start a thread on why you do not believe.
Perhaps, we'll see a lot of reasons coming from skeptics.


But that's not what this thread is all about.
This thread is about those............. people who found their own personal proof that made them become believers.
Click to expand...
And again, the theology forum would be a more appropriate place to place this thread, IF you wish to prevent skeptics, non believers, from questioning what believers want to claim as evidence/proof of a God. That's all I'm saying.
 
The OP doesn't seem to understand that proof is actually a scientific-based observation, not a faith-based one. Faith is belief in the absence of proof. If God existed and operated within the laws which would allow us to 'prove' his existence, then he wouldn't be a magical omnipotent being that grants miracles, he'd be part of the natural phenomena of the universe and would be accepted by everyone.

Religion in the supernatural sense is belief in operations that influence the course of reality outside of the natural order.
 
Dans La Lune said:
The OP doesn't seem to understand that proof is actually a scientific-based observation, not a faith-based one. Faith is belief in the absence of proof. If God existed and operated within the laws which would allow us to 'prove' his existence, then he wouldn't be a magical omnipotent being that grants miracles, he'd be part of the natural phenomena of the universe and would be accepted by everyone.

Religion in the supernatural sense is belief in operations that influence the course of reality outside of the natural order.
Click to expand...


In this case, it is proof for the person who experienced it.
It's what made him believe.


It's not proof for you!
You're not expected to accept it as proof.

Your opinion about it wouldn't matter.
It shouldn't!
After all..............you were not in his shoes!



But to him who had experienced it, it is.
 
tosca1 said:
In this case, it is proof for the person who experienced it.
It's what made him believe.
Click to expand...
That doesn't make it actual proof. Certainly not within the realm of science. All it means is someone convinced themselves of something and nothing more.
 
Gordy327 said:
That doesn't make it actual proof. Certainly not within the realm of science. All it means is someone convinced themselves of something and nothing more.
Click to expand...


post #31.
 
tosca1 said:
In this case, it is proof for the person who experienced it.
It's what made him believe.


It's not proof for you!
You're not expected to accept it as proof.

Your opinion about it wouldn't matter.
It shouldn't!
After all..............you were not in his shoes!



But to him who had experienced it, it is.
Click to expand...

Anecdotes are not proof of anything.
 
tosca1 said:
In this case, it is proof for the person who experienced it.
It's what made him believe.


It's not proof for you!
You're not expected to accept it as proof.

Your opinion about it wouldn't matter.
It shouldn't!
After all..............you were not in his shoes!



But to him who had experienced it, it is.
Click to expand...
Lots of people have religious experiences that they don't attribute to the God of Abraham.
 
Atheist-turned-Christian Lee Strobel is the former award-winning legal editor of The Chicago Tribune and best-selling author of more than twenty books.



 
I guess I don't understand the point of this thread if it's not about 'Ultimate Evidence' in favor of God, which is not provided in any capacity by the OP or her responses.
 
tosca1 said:
@Gordy327



You're not getting the point.


have a nice day.







This thread isn't for them.
Click to expand...
Then you should have said so.

Skeptics always demand from a believer, "show me proof!"


And the believer would respond, by providing a plethora of evidence:

There are non-Christian believers. Your claim that personal experience is proof of the Bible god is seriously flawed. All it suggests is the culture one lives under.
 
Dans La Lune said:
Anecdotes are not proof of anything.
Click to expand...


Just to help you get a grasp of it:


let me ask you:


If your friend has had gall stone problem and explained to you how painful it is......................would you say, "your anecdote is not proof that it is painful!" 😁
 
tosca1 said:
Just to help you get a grasp of it:


let me ask you:


If your friend has had gall stone problem and explained to you how painful it is......................would you say, "your anecdote is not proof that it is painful!" 😁
Click to expand...

No, but that ailment exists within the realm of medical science, not religion. If that person with the gall stone started speaking in tongues to cast out the demons that caused the gall stone, and my friend said this was effective medicine -- no, I wouldn't believe him.
 
J. Warner Wallace
In 1996, Wallace became a Christian at the age of 35, after investigating the gospels as potential eyewitness accounts to the life of Jesus using his detective expertise.

en.wikipedia.org

J. Warner Wallace - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org



Robert Melnichuk interviews J. Warner Wallace. A former homicide detective and author of Cold Case Christianity.
 
Dans La Lune said:
No, but that ailment exists within the realm of medical science, not religion. If that person with the gall stone started speaking in tongues to cast out the demons that caused the gall stone, and my friend said this was effective medicine -- no, I wouldn't believe him.
Click to expand...


The point: he was the one who felt and described the pain. 🤷


Have a nice day.
 
Organized religion is also cultural more so than spiritual, which means that the 'Ultimate Evidence' is gonna shift depending on your flavor. Those who are the most devoted to Christian Fundamentalism would be equally devoted to Islamic Fundamentalism or Hindu Fundamentalism had they been raised in another country.
 
Bottom line:


Of course, you can't refute the testimonies!
They're................PERSONAL.


You may not believe their testimony - but your opinion is, IRRELEVANT.


What matters is that they had experienced GOD.................................and, they'd believed.
THEY GOT TRANSFORMED BY THEIR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.


This has nothing to do with you guys - so, stop being so defensive!
 
Very strange concept of evidence. Which is better: objective or subjective evidence? Your claim is that subjective evidence is the ultimate form of evidence.

Subjective evidence is a form of faith, which is the most moronic concept conceived by the mind of men.
 
tosca1 said:
Bottom line:


Of course, you can't refute the testimonies!
They're................PERSONAL.
Click to expand...
That is also why they can be dismissed.
tosca1 said:
You may not believe their testimony - but your opinion is, IRRELEVANT.
Click to expand...
As is testimony.
tosca1 said:
What matters is that they had experienced GOD.................................and, they'd believed.
THEY GOT TRANSFORMED BY THEIR PERSONAL EXPERIENCE.
Click to expand...
Subjective and anecdotal. Basically convincing themselves of something.
tosca1 said:
This has nothing to do with you guys - so, stop being so defensive!
Click to expand...
Then why do you keep posting this BS?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom