The Ukrainian Crisis 2014.....

[MMC]

Ukraine Crisis: Russian Flags on Crimea's Government Buildings as Armed Men Seize Control.....

Crimea's regional government building and parliament have reportedly been taken over by armed men, further loosening the grip of Ukraine's new government on the Russian-speaking east of the country.

At least a dozen men in fatigues were seen under a Russian flag around the halfway mark on the 80-kilometre road from Sevastopol to Simferopol, and they were supported by an armoured personnel carrier, the Globe and Mail reported.

"This is a government which is doomed to be able to work only for 3-4 months ... because they will have to take unpopular decisions," Turchinov said, according to Reuters......snip~

Ukraine Crisis: Russian Flags on Crimea's Government Buildings as Armed Men Seize Control


It appears the conflict is escalating. These guys came in and were like a unit. Fully armed, carry grenedes. Russian Flags are flying over the government buildings taken.

Also the Former President has now been seen in Moscow and Russia will protect him.

 

[anatta]

"no recognizable uniforms" - but they are uniformed. Cannot believe Putin would openly back any Ukraine territory - but Crimea is unique, so paramilitary operating wouldn't be out of the question.

 

[MMC]

"no recognizable uniforms" - but they are uniformed. Cannot believe Putin would openly back any Ukraine territory - but Crimea is unique, so paramilitary operating wouldn't be out of the question.

Mornin AT. :2wave: They said a dozen. Someone should punch the reporter in the head real hard, and then ask why they can't tell the difference of up to at least a dozen and then like 50 or more. I would also leave a thought about breaking its hands should it report falsely again.

 

[Rainman05]

Just because they're in uniform, doesn't mean they're russian soldiers. They are most certianly a paramilitary group, a pro-russian one, but operating in ukraine. For crying out loud, Ukraine has about 8 paramilitary organizations. Or better say: There are 8 or so paramilitary groups operating in Ukraine. So don't jump the shark. There were 3 paramilitary groups on the protesters side in Kyiv. You don't think there are 1-2 in Crimea that are pro-russian?

 

[WCH]

Anyone here know what it says on the backs of those armed, uniformed men?

 

[anatta]

Ukrainian interim President Olexander Turchynov has warned Russia against any "military aggression" in Crimea.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26366700

nothing else so far but combat alerts for jets, and the snap drill for Russian troops. Understandable by Putin.

 

[Rainman05]

Anyone here know what it says on the backs of those armed, uniformed men?

Thats the ukrainian word for militia (militsyia or so) in chirilic. Those aren't the uniformed men who took the city hall, they're the cops.

 

[MMC]

Just because they're in uniform, doesn't mean they're russian soldiers. They are most certianly a paramilitary group, a pro-russian one, but operating in ukraine. For crying out loud, Ukraine has about 8 paramilitary organizations. Or better say: There are 8 or so paramilitary groups operating in Ukraine. So don't jump the shark. There were 3 paramilitary groups on the protesters side in Kyiv. You don't think there are 1-2 in Crimea that are pro-russian?

Mornin RM. :2wave: Well they made sure they let all know who they are riding with. As the Russian Flags fly over the Crimea Government Buildings.



Ukraine on alert after gunmen seize buildings

Ukrainian troops and police officers are on high alert, after armed men seized government buildings in the Crimea region of the country and raised a Russian flag over a barricade, shortly after reports suggested that Moscow was sheltering ousted Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich.

Acting president Oleksander Turchinov told parliament on Thursday he had given an order for security structures to take "all measures" needed to protect citizens.

Part of Russia's Black Sea fleet is based in Crimea, in the port of Sevastopol. Turchinov told Russian forces in Crimea not to leave their base, saying any movement would be considered a "military aggression".

Breaking his five-day silence on Thursday, Yanukovich insisted that he is still the head of state, saying that he wants Russian to protecting him for the "actions of extremists" and called the new leaders of Ukraine "illegitimiate", Russian news organisations have reported.

There have also been reports in Russian media that Yanukovich had fled to Moscow.

Pictures from Twitter posted on Thursday showed the Russian flag raised above the Crimean parliament building. Up to 50 men with weapons marched into the buildings during the night.

"They're still there ... Then the police came, they seemed scared. I asked them (the armed men) what they wanted and they
said 'To make our own decisions, not to have Kiev telling us what to do'," said Khazanov.....snip~

Ukraine on alert after gunmen seize buildings - Europe - Al Jazeera English

 

[Rainman05]

Mornin RM. :2wave: Well they made sure they let all know who they are riding with. As the Russian Flags fly over the Crimea Government Buildings.

Ukraine on alert after gunmen seize buildings

Ukrainian troops and police officers are on high alert, after armed men seized government buildings in the Crimea region of the country and raised a Russian flag over a barricade, shortly after reports suggested that Moscow was sheltering ousted Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich.

Acting president Oleksander Turchinov told parliament on Thursday he had given an order for security structures to take "all measures" needed to protect citizens.

Part of Russia's Black Sea fleet is based in Crimea, in the port of Sevastopol. Turchinov told Russian forces in Crimea not to leave their base, saying any movement would be considered a "military aggression".

Breaking his five-day silence on Thursday, Yanukovich insisted that he is still the head of state, saying that he wants Russian to protecting him for the "actions of extremists" and called the new leaders of Ukraine "illegitimiate", Russian news organisations have reported.

There have also been reports in Russian media that Yanukovich had fled to Moscow.

Pictures from Twitter posted on Thursday showed the Russian flag raised above the Crimean parliament building. Up to 50 men with weapons marched into the buildings during the night.

"They're still there ... Then the police came, they seemed scared. I asked them (the armed men) what they wanted and they
said 'To make our own decisions, not to have Kiev telling us what to do'," said Khazanov.....snip~

Ukraine on alert after gunmen seize buildings - Europe - Al Jazeera English

Look, the pro-EU protesters put EU flags on all the govt buildings they occupied. All that means is that some butthurt russians are so butthurt that they're willing to get themselves imprisoned or shot to make a statement. Putin won't intervene on behalf of radicals. he just won't. He cares too much to be seen as a "reasonable" guy in the world, the guy who is against violence, against terrorism, against diplomatic bullying, to go full retard and start supporting crimean independence or that crimea becomes part of Russia.

Yanukovych has no support left even in his own party. Most of the people that supported him now cut their losses and are thinking of either how to make a quick retirement exit or evade justice long enough to escape and live happily ever after with all the millions and billions of $ they stole from the people while they were in office. His own party voted against him to dismiss him from power and to throw him to the ICC. The opposition doesn't have a majority parliament, the party of regions is still the majority. He can say whatever he wants to say, since 5 days ago, he's a nobody... well hes' a thief and a murderer but politically, he has no power left in his pen.

However... one wrong move... one Russian citizen getting "shot" or injured in the conflict between pro-russian and pro-EU forces and the table turns. A russian navy guy wondering the streets of Sfimvestopol and gets the crap beaten out of him by the anti-Russian protesters... and things can change dramatically. So far, this hasn't happened.
until then, it's just ukrainians fighting ukrainians for the future of ukraine. Whatever they think that future should be.

 

[MMC]

Look, the pro-EU protesters put EU flags on all the govt buildings they occupied. All that means is that some butthurt russians are so butthurt that they're willing to get themselves imprisoned or shot to make a statement. Putin won't intervene on behalf of radicals. he just won't. He cares too much to be seen as a "reasonable" guy in the world, the guy who is against violence, against terrorism, against diplomatic bullying, to go full retard and start supporting crimean independence or that crimea becomes part of Russia.

Yanukovych has no support left even in his own party. Most of the people that supported him now cut their losses and are thinking of either how to make a quick retirement exit or evade justice long enough to escape and live happily ever after with all the millions and billions of $ they stole from the people while they were in office. His own party voted against him to dismiss him from power and to throw him to the ICC. The opposition doesn't have a majority parliament, the party of regions is still the majority. He can say whatever he wants to say, since 5 days ago, he's a nobody... well hes' a thief and a murderer but politically, he has no power left in his pen.

However... one wrong move... one Russian citizen getting "shot" or injured in the conflict between pro-russian and pro-EU forces and the table turns. A russian navy guy wondering the streets of Sfimvestopol and gets the crap beaten out of him by the anti-Russian protesters... and things can change dramatically. So far, this hasn't happened.
until then, it's just ukrainians fighting ukrainians for the future of ukraine. Whatever they think that future should be.

Update RM. Looks like Yanukovich will speak out Friday.


Ukraine's Yanukovich to hold news conference in Russia: reports.....

Ousted Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich plans to hold a news conference in the southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don on Friday at 5 p.m. (1300 GMT), Russian news agencies reported, citing people close to Yanukovich.

The three main Russian news agencies, state-run RIA and Itar-Tass as well as privately owned Interfax, all carried similar reports citing unnamed sources close to Yanukovich.

Earlier on Thursday, the same agencies carried a statement quoting Yanukovich as saying he was still president of Ukraine and railing against what he said were "extremists" who had stolen power.....snip~

Ukraine's Yanukovich to hold news conference in Russia: reports
Reuters – 1 hr 55 mins ago

So what do you think about Reuters using 3 Russian media sources to validate and reference this story? Do you think Reuters knows about their propaganda machine?

 

[rhinefire]

The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming.

 

[grip]

The Russians are coming, the Russians are coming.

And there's not one thing the US can do, directly militarily.

 

[Rainman05]

Update RM. Looks like Yanukovich will speak out Friday.


Ukraine's Yanukovich to hold news conference in Russia: reports.....

Ousted Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovich plans to hold a news conference in the southern Russian city of Rostov-on-Don on Friday at 5 p.m. (1300 GMT), Russian news agencies reported, citing people close to Yanukovich.

The three main Russian news agencies, state-run RIA and Itar-Tass as well as privately owned Interfax, all carried similar reports citing unnamed sources close to Yanukovich.

Earlier on Thursday, the same agencies carried a statement quoting Yanukovich as saying he was still president of Ukraine and railing against what he said were "extremists" who had stolen power.....snip~

Ukraine's Yanukovich to hold news conference in Russia: reports
Reuters – 1 hr 55 mins ago

So what do you think about Reuters using 3 Russian media sources to validate and reference this story? Do you think Reuters knows about their propaganda machine?

Idk. There really isn't a lot to chew on

We'll have to wait and see what he says today.

 

[MMC]

Idk. There really isn't a lot to chew on

We'll have to wait and see what he says today.

The Ukraine is calling the Russians moves an armed invasion. The Russians have had 90 planes flying all along this area. Now this morning. The Turks have reported two, that's 2 Russian Transport Ships Passed the Points on the Bosphorus heading north in that Direction. (Sp)


Ukraine accuses Russia of 'armed invasion' in Crimea
AFP – 20 mins ago


Ukraine accused Russia of staging an "armed invasion" of Crimea on Friday and appealed to the West to guarantee its territorial integrity after pro-Kremlin gunmen took control of the peninsula's main airport.

Unidentified armed men in full combat gear were patrolling outside of Crimea's main airport early on Friday while gunmen were also reported to have seized another airfield on the southwest of the peninsula where ethnic Russians are a majority and where pro-Moscow sentiment runs high.

Ukraine's parliament immediately appealed to the United States and Britain to uphold a 1994 pact signed with Russia that guaranteed the country's sovereignty in return for it giving up its Soviet nuclear arms.

Ukraine's Interior Minister Arsen Avakov accused the Russian armed forces of being directly involved in dawn raids on an airport in Crimea's main city of Simferopol as well as an airfield on the southwestern coast.

Avakov said the gunmen at the Simferopol airport "are not even hiding the fact that they belong to the armed forces of the Russian Federation."

Aksyonov said on Friday that he still recognised Yanukovych as Ukraine's legitimate head of state.....snip~

Ukraine accuses Russia of 'armed invasion' in Crimea

 

[German guy]

Uhm ... just asking out of curiosity:

Wouldn't it make sense to simply divide Ukraine? As I gathered, 90% of the Russian speaking Ukrainians feeling Russian live in the east and south-east of Ukraine, while those in the west and north-west feel European and want to get closer to the EU.

The West pretends this is a political conflict, but it at least seems to have very deeply rooted ethnic causes. Maybe we should respect that?

 

[Infinite Chaos]

-- Wouldn't it make sense to simply divide Ukraine? --

The simplest solutions are not always the ones people will go for.
I have a horrible feeling there will be conflict and it will end either in a repressive coup and armed government or a civil war and split in Ukraine into two.

 

[MMC]

Uhm ... just asking out of curiosity:

Wouldn't it make sense to simply divide Ukraine? As I gathered, 90% of the Russian speaking Ukrainians feeling Russian live in the east and south-east of Ukraine, while those in the west and north-west feel European and want to get closer to the EU.

The West pretends this is a political conflict, but it at least seems to have very deeply rooted ethnic causes. Maybe we should respect that?

Mornin' German G. :2wave: Well thats what those in the West want to Prevent. They are already at the point that any incidents of violence coming on.....is going to cause this whole situation to explode open.

 

[German guy]

Mornin' German G. :2wave: Well thats what those in the West want to Prevent. They are already at the point that any incidents of violence coming on.....is going to cause this whole situation to explode open.

How much is to the claim that Ukraine is just another proxi conflict in the "new Cold War" between the West and Russia, btw? Is it really like Brzezynski said, that Russia can forget all its imperial ambitions without Ukraine, which is why the West must do everything it can to get Ukraine on its side?

Is the "moral superiority" argument from the side of the West legitimate or rather hollow?

Just asking, because I'm really not deep enough into the subject to know.

 

[PoS]

Uhm ... just asking out of curiosity:

Wouldn't it make sense to simply divide Ukraine? As I gathered, 90% of the Russian speaking Ukrainians feeling Russian live in the east and south-east of Ukraine, while those in the west and north-west feel European and want to get closer to the EU.

The West pretends this is a political conflict, but it at least seems to have very deeply rooted ethnic causes. Maybe we should respect that?

I think this is more complicated than just a local ethnic strife, its clear that there are people and governments behind the scenes actively fostering this conflict since its clear Putin will want to keep at least part of the Ukraine as a satellite region friendly to Russia by supporting Yanukovich and any breakaway factions in the Crimea. We have to remember that Russia has always looked at this region as their backyard since god knows when and will do what they can to keep it firmly in their zone of influence; thats the reason why Stalin forced marched much of the population eastwards after World War 2 and put in a lot of Russian immigrants to the region, he wanted it as a bulwark in case of any future encroachments by the West.

Let us also remember that the leading powers of the 19th century fought a very brutal war in that region so it is very strategic, to say the least. There are also treaties that have been signed that might spark a war.

And breaking it up is going to incur lots of ethnic cleansing too...

 

[MMC]

The simplest solutions are not always the ones people will go for.
I have a horrible feeling there will be conflict and it will end either in a repressive coup and armed government or a civil war and split in Ukraine into two.

Mornin' IC. :2wave: This is escalating and the US and the EU have been out played. People were talking about Putin not having the money and the resources for this. They were and are wrong. Others say he wouldn't mobilize 150k troops for drills. More like just 30 or 40k. But he has over 90 planes in the Air running as we speak, and AP journalist are reporting 150k and they are ready to go.....armed to the teeth. This is not good. There will be nothing that the EU or the US can do.....physically. It will be on what the Ukrainians can muster up. Which they are an exporter of weapons as well.

He has mobilized more than 30-40k troops. The EU and the Ukraine along with us are now behind the 8 ball, and playing catch up. All these moves by Putin....are the Necessary moves to be making in order to gain control of the entire situation. Kerry has been played and Hagel is a mope and was treated just like one.



Ukraine crisis deepens as Russia scrambles jets.....

Russia scrambled fighter jets to patrol its border and reportedly gave shelter to Ukraine's fugitive president as gunmen stormed government buildings in the strategic Crimea region and raised a Russian flag over the regional parliament Thursday, deepening the crisis for the new Ukrainian government even as it was being formed.

The moves pose an immediate challenge to Ukraine's new authorities as they seek to set up an interim government for the country, whose population is divided in loyalties between Russia and the West.

Ukraine's new prime minister said the country's future lies in the European Union but with friendly relations with Russia. Moscow, meanwhile, has launched a major military exercise involving 150,000 troops and put fighter jets on patrol along the border.

The same agencies then quoted an unnamed Russian official saying that Yanukovych's request for protection "was satisfied on the territory of Russia."

Phone calls to the Crimean legislature rang unanswered, and its website was down.

"I have given orders to the military to use all methods necessary to protect the citizens, punish the criminals, and to free the buildings," he said.

In another sign of the ongoing tensions in Crimea, an AP freelancer saw a convoy of seven armored personnel carriers on a road near the village of Ukromnoye, about 10 kilometers (6 miles) from Simferopol. The soldiers manning the APCs didn't answer questions, and the APCs turned away and headed away from Simferopol. Their nationality wasn't immediately clear......snip~

Ukraine crisis deepens as Russia scrambles jets

That's Correct.....7 armored personnel Carriers fully loaded. Only one group of people have the equipment at hand.

 

[MMC]

Russian tanks a day ago.....of course by the Russians themselves.

 

[MMC]

How much is to the claim that Ukraine is just another proxi conflict in the "new Cold War" between the West and Russia, btw? Is it really like Brzezynski said, that Russia can forget all its imperial ambitions without Ukraine, which is why the West must do everything it can to get Ukraine on its side?

Is the "moral superiority" argument from the side of the West legitimate or rather hollow?

Just asking, because I'm really not deep enough into the subject to know.

What I am trying to figure out is how people are calling this the start of WWIII? Then there are those citing biblical reference to Gog and Magog or something like that. Plus the Conspirists have started up.

Still all keep reporting this as masked armed men and reporting they don't know who they are. What do you think that says when they have been reporting this same statement for over 24hrs?

 

[German guy]

What I am trying to figure out is how people are calling this the start of WWIII? Then there are those citing biblical reference to Gog and Magog or something like that. Plus the Conspirists have started up.

Still all keep reporting this as masked armed men and reporting they don't know who they are. What do you think that says when they have been reporting this same statement for over 24hrs?

Not sure what you're getting at, but yeah, there are lots of conspiracy theories as well as disinformation from different sides.

However, I'm wondering how serious the situation *really* is, and how far Russia and the West are willing to go (and capable of going) to maintain/expand their influence on Ukraine.

 

[MMC]

Not sure what you're getting at, but yeah, there are lots of conspiracy theories as well as disinformation from different sides.

However, I'm wondering how serious the situation *really* is, and how far Russia and the West are willing to go (and capable of going) to maintain/expand their influence on Ukraine.

Its serious......Ukraine is mobilizing their armed forces. They issued an arrest warrant for the former Pres. Then Russia ensured his safety on Russian soil.



In Brussels, U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel urged Russia not to take any action on Ukraine that might boost tensions. After a NATO defense minister meeting, he told reporters: "These are times for cool, wise leadership on Russia's side and everyone's side."

Russian news agencies reported that the Crimean legislature had held an emergency session — despite the occupation of the building — and removed the local governor, replacing him with Sergei Aksyonov, the head of Russian Unity, the main pro-Russian party on the peninsula.....snip~

Ukraine crisis deepens as Russia scrambles jets

 

[anatta]

looking like a slow motion invasion, only saw the one reference to "armored vehicles", troops are unmarked. Seize the airport, seize or ring the parliament, steam naval forces.
Then see what the west does -prolly nothing. Chess would call this the "Crimean opening"

Putin makes the next move on the chessboard, see if there is any counter play. Then continue to checkmate. slow and steady pressure, gains