The U.S. Has Hit 600,000 COVID Deaths, More Than Any Other Country

[Sagittarius83]

Indeed, 19 countries

View attachment 67339097​

Two of those countries had under 100 deaths and five more had deaths under 5,000.

If you want to see how silly slavish reliance on the "X/million" data can be, then take a look at the rates of "Cases per Million"

View attachment 67339098​

where 13 countries are doing "worse" than the US (and, of those 13, 11 had less than 1% of the number of deaths from COVID-19 than the US had and ALL have less than 0.5% of the number of active cases than the US has.

It's a good thing that "The Vatican" didn't have two people die from COVID-19 because, had that happened, the "Deaths per Million" for "The Vatican" would be 2,490.66.

Cases mean nothing. I had covid just like I had several dangerous flus and god knows how many colds. Yet here I am alive and kicking. Deaths are what matter.
Also the Vatican is essentially Rome, a very densely populated area with an aged population and Italy is second only to Japan in the elderly population.
Keep in mind that only about 5 in the thousand have died of covid and the average age of death is about 78 with a median age of about 80.
I am sorry but this is very near the end of life anyway. And surely you don’t think that erasing Covid leads to immortality and I am sorry but something is going to take you out too and it is very unlikely to be covid.
And as I said, the EU is opening up to American tourism again so they are clearly over the American menace of COVID so why aren’t you?

 

[Airyaman]

How many died directly because of COVID?

How many people died directly from AIDS? Or the flu?

 

[molten_dragon]

The U.S. Has Hit 600,000 COVID Deaths, More Than Any Other Country

The latest toll from Johns Hopkins University comes nearly four months after the nation crossed the half-million mark for deaths from the coronavirus pandemic.

www.npr.org

Can't help but wonder how much lower the US death toll would have been if anyone other than Donald Trump had been president during that initial pandemic year.

My state is now completely open. No masks or social distancing required anywhere.

If a rational president from either party had been in office US covid deaths would definitely have been lower. I don't think Trump is to blame for as many deaths as a lot of his opponents accuse him of though. I'm guessing best case our deaths per capita might look similar to some of the better European countries, which would mean 100,000 - 150,000 fewer deaths. The idea that we could have had a response similar to South Korea or New Zealand is a pipe dream. Our national culture simply doesn't support doing the things that those sorts of countries did.

 

[Torus34]

As I write this, the Delta variant of the Covid-19 virus is spreading throughout the United States of America. The probability of an Epsilon mutant is relatively high. That variant may be more infectious and/or more virulent than the Delta strain.

Should it appear, it will not be an escapee from a laboratory nor transmitted through a food market. It will come from one of the many, many millions of people who have not yet had the disease, are not or only partially vaccinated and do not have natural immunity. They are all potential viral 'labs' or, if you wish, Petri dishes awaiting inoculation.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Cases mean nothing. I had covid just like I had several dangerous flus and god knows how many colds. Yet here I am alive and kicking. Deaths are what matter.
Also the Vatican is essentially Rome, a very densely populated area with an aged population and Italy is second only to Japan in the elderly population.
Keep in mind that only about 5 in the thousand have died of covid and the average age of death is about 78 with a median age of about 80.
I am sorry but this is very near the end of life anyway. And surely you don’t think that erasing Covid leads to immortality and I am sorry but something is going to take you out too and it is very unlikely to be covid.
And as I said, the EU is opening up to American tourism again so they are clearly over the American menace of COVID so why aren’t you?

Now why would you think that I am concerned "over the American menace of COVID" simply because I report the latest available dats?

BTW, "The Vatican" has a population of 803. As I understand it, the population of Rome is slightly higher.

When determining mortality rate, you do NOT divide the total deaths by the total population. Those who think that that is the way to do it really ought to take some remedial statistics courses.

Yes, the EU is "opening up to American tourism" but one of the requirements is that the tourist have been vaccinated and also have tested negative for COVID-19. The Europeans are not (generally speaking) stupid enough to allow totally unrestrained American tourism.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

If a rational president from either party had been in office US covid deaths would definitely have been lower. I don't think Trump is to blame for as many deaths as a lot of his opponents accuse him of though. I'm guessing best case our deaths per capita might look similar to some of the better European countries, which would mean 100,000 - 150,000 fewer deaths. The idea that we could have had a response similar to South Korea or New Zealand is a pipe dream. Our national culture simply doesn't support doing the things that those sorts of countries did.

The most directly comparable country would NOT be an European one, but, rather would be Canada.

The data for the "G-8+China" group is

​

however if you "normalize" that table to the US population, what you get is

​

and if you subtract 228,121 from 617,463 you get 389,342 NOT 100,000 to 150,000.

 

[snakestretcher]

Cases mean nothing. I had covid just like I had several dangerous flus and god knows how many colds. Yet here I am alive and kicking. Deaths are what matter.
Also the Vatican is essentially Rome, a very densely populated area with an aged population and Italy is second only to Japan in the elderly population.
Keep in mind that only about 5 in the thousand have died of covid and the average age of death is about 78 with a median age of about 80.
I am sorry but this is very near the end of life anyway. And surely you don’t think that erasing Covid leads to immortality and I am sorry but something is going to take you out too and it is very unlikely to be covid.
And as I said, the EU is opening up to American tourism again so they are clearly over the American menace of COVID so why aren’t you?

Yes, some European nations will now admit US citizens, but only if fully vaccinated and tested.

 

[Sagittarius83]

Now why would you think that I am concerned "over the American menace of COVID" simply because I report the latest available dats?

BTW, "The Vatican" has a population of 803. As I understand it, the population of Rome is slightly higher.

When determining mortality rate, you do NOT divide the total deaths by the total population. Those who think that that is the way to do it really ought to take some remedial statistics courses.

Yes, the EU is "opening up to American tourism" but one of the requirements is that the tourist have been vaccinated and also have tested negative for COVID-19. The Europeans are not (generally speaking) stupid enough to allow totally unrestrained American tourism.

The Netherlands is open to American tourism without restriction as of 24 June. You should research before you make sweeping statements.

 

[Sagittarius83]

If a rational president from either party had been in office US covid deaths would definitely have been lower. I don't think Trump is to blame for as many deaths as a lot of his opponents accuse him of though. I'm guessing best case our deaths per capita might look similar to some of the better European countries, which would mean 100,000 - 150,000 fewer deaths. The idea that we could have had a response similar to South Korea or New Zealand is a pipe dream. Our national culture simply doesn't support doing the things that those sorts of countries did.

Should your national culture have done the things that those countries did? What did they do by the way? Also if people refused to abide by these government actions what should have been the penalties?

 

[Sagittarius83]

Now why would you think that I am concerned "over the American menace of COVID" simply because I report the latest available dats?

BTW, "The Vatican" has a population of 803. As I understand it, the population of Rome is slightly higher.

When determining mortality rate, you do NOT divide the total deaths by the total population. Those who think that that is the way to do it really ought to take some remedial statistics courses.

Yes, the EU is "opening up to American tourism" but one of the requirements is that the tourist have been vaccinated and also have tested negative for COVID-19. The Europeans are not (generally speaking) stupid enough to allow totally unrestrained American tourism.

Ok then if the standard is not deaths per million then what is it?

Also covid is a disease that killed about 5 in ten thousand. The average age was about 78 and the median age about 80.

Is your life so otherwise tranquil that this is what you are most worried about?

If I feared this I would consider myself craven.

But I can’t instill my values into others.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

“I felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.” Donald Trump

Which does not conflict with my point that you bolded. Knowing it was a pandemic is one thing, knowing what level of a pandemic it would become is another. The garden variety flu viruses that infect across the planet every season are pandemics.....just not quite as deadly as Covid. Trump, like most of the world thought and hoped it would be contained. And in the US, without the Governor of New York sending Senior Covid patients with an active infection back to nursing homes, it may have been.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

The Netherlands is open to American tourism without restriction as of 24 June. You should research before you make sweeping statements.View attachment 67339205

I did say "generally speaking" and you know what they say about telling a Dutchman something.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Now why would you think that I am concerned "over the American menace of COVID" simply because I report the latest available dats?


Ok then if the standard is not deaths per million then what is it?

Also covid is a disease that killed about 5 in ten thousand. The average age was about 78 and the median age about 80.

Is your life so otherwise tranquil that this is what you are most worried about?

If I feared this I would consider myself craven.

But I can’t instill my values into others.

The standard would sort of depend on what you want to use it for.

To assess the effect on the internal affairs of a country, you could always use the number of active cases per million.

​

To assess the effectiveness of a country's efforts to ameliorate COVID-19, you could always use "relative chance of dying" and "relative chance of dying adjusted by ability to pay" or "relative chance of dying adjusted by healthcare spending".

​

If you simply look at "deaths per million" then you have to conclude that countries with fewer than 100 deaths "did worse" (Gibralter: 94 deaths, 15 active cases / San Marino: 90 deaths, 1 active case) than the US did.

​

What you actually have to do is to look at the whole spectrum of measurements and attempt a synthesis.

If you do that, then the conclusion that you are almost forced into is that the US did NOT "punch up to its own weight" in battling COVID-19.

 

[Sagittarius83]

I did say "generally speaking" and you know what they say about telling a Dutchman something.

Ok so now you are personally insulting a whole country and culture. I have had enough of you.
I wish you the best.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Ok so now you are personally insulting a whole country and culture. I have had enough of you.
I wish you the best.

Well, I do try to be efficient.

 

[snakestretcher]

The Netherlands is open to American tourism without restriction as of 24 June. You should research before you make sweeping statements.View attachment 67339205

Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

 

[snakestretcher]

Which does not conflict with my point that you bolded. Knowing it was a pandemic is one thing, knowing what level of a pandemic it would become is another. The garden variety flu viruses that infect across the planet every season are pandemics.....just not quite as deadly as Covid. Trump, like most of the world thought and hoped it would be contained. And in the US, without the Governor of New York sending Senior Covid patients with an active infection back to nursing homes, it may have been.

Where else would you send the frail, sick and vulnerable with their complex care needs but a nursing home?

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Where else would you send the frail, sick and vulnerable with their complex care needs but a nursing home?

You are kidding, right? Have you ever in your life visited a nursing home? They are not hospitals or urgent care centers, They basically just take care of a senior citizens basic needs., not a deadly pandemic. As to where to send them, There were field hospitals set up, and a military hospital ship they could have been sent to. The latter never reached it's capacity.

 

[Roadvirus]

Where else would you send the frail, sick and vulnerable with their complex care needs but a nursing home?

Trying to defend Elderly Killer Andy?

Forget it. State lawmakers of his own party want his ass cored out for it (among other things)

 

[Phys251]

Again we need to stop with raw numbers on cases and look at proportions.
We also need to look at deaths by proportion to population and as of a few days ago, the US had 19 countries higher in proportional death rates.
Also note that the Netherlands with an even lower death rate will open up to US tourism on 24 June so obviously the EU is not so concerned about the American risk anymore.
Perhaps the OP can worry about other things now?

Very dismissive attitude.

 

[snakestretcher]

Trying to defend Elderly Killer Andy?

Forget it. State lawmakers of his own party want his ass cored out for it (among other things)

No, what I clearly asked was where else would you have had Cuomo send those frail and elderly folk with the sort of complex medical needs a hotel could not cope with. Nobody seems to be able to provide a sensible answer; maybe you can?

 

[snakestretcher]

You are kidding, right? Have you ever in your life visited a nursing home? They are not hospitals or urgent care centers, They basically just take care of a senior citizens basic needs., not a deadly pandemic. As to where to send them, There were field hospitals set up, and a military hospital ship they could have been sent to. The latter never reached it's capacity.

Nursing homes have *gasp* trained nursing staff; trained in general care, turning patients to avoid bed sores, administering drugs either by injection or orally, using hoists for bath time, personal care (ass-wiping, cleaning up accidents etc., etc.). What does a hotel offer? Nothing but a bed-probably unsuitable-and food. Complex dietary needs? Forget it.
And yes, I visited and assessed many nursing homes when my elderly mother was no longer able to manage on her own.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Nursing homes have *gasp* trained nursing staff; trained in general care, turning patients to avoid bed sores, administering drugs either by injection or orally, using hoists for bath time, personal care (ass-wiping, cleaning up accidents etc., etc.). What does a hotel offer? Nothing but a bed-probably unsuitable-and food. Complex dietary needs? Forget it.
And yes, I visited and assessed many nursing homes when my elderly mother was no longer able to manage on her own.

Who is suggesting a hotel? You just do not get it on so many levels. Nursing homes to usually have one registered nurse on hand and maybe am LPN or two, however they are prepared to do much more then basic care. Nursing homes are not hospitals or intensive care units. They basically give them a bed and just take care of their basic needs and pass out medication. They are ill suited to provide care or isolation of contagious pandemic patients. The result was that 20% of the Covid deaths in New York were in nursing homes. That is where the pandemic got out of hand in the US. Again, not sure where you came up with the hotel offer. As I mentioned, there were field hospitals and a military hospital ship they could have been sent to. Ofcourse I cannot speak for the UK and it's vastly overwhelmed healthcare system(Even prior to the pandemic).