• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The U.S. boycott remains strong. Why many Canadians are digging in their heels

Taylor said:
I'm sorry you're not up to speed on the limitations of your trade infrastructure.

Loading…

cirano.qc.ca

Loading…

macleans.ca

You will be heavily invested in trade with the US for quite a while because your supply chains are heavily interlinked with the US. Trade is 2/3 of your economy and 80% of your exports go to the US. I get the sentiment of wanting to give us the middle finger, but realistically you're stuck with us, probably for at least a few decades.
Click to expand...
I dont think anyone wants to eliminate or even reduce trade with the US. We just want to ensure we have not got all our eggs in one basket. Especially given that basket has shown itself to be untrustworthy and unreliable.
 
Taylor said:
I'm sorry you're not up to speed on the limitations of your trade infrastructure.

Loading…

cirano.qc.ca

Loading…

macleans.ca

You will be heavily invested in trade with the US for quite a while because your supply chains are heavily interlinked with the US. Trade is 2/3 of your economy and 80% of your exports go to the US. I get the sentiment of wanting to give us the middle finger, but realistically you're stuck with us, probably for at least a few decades.

There isn't another highly developed, industrialized country more dependent on a single trade partner than Canada is on the US.
Click to expand...

Well things are changing. Canada has learned that they can't depend on America to be a true friend and neighbor. So Canada is reaching out to others and negotiating trade deals with them. Perhaps that's why there hasn't been any real movement on a Trade Deal with Trump. All the Negotiators are busy elsewhere.

Like in China.

www.ey.com

Canada-China trade relations — March 2025 key developments

The Canadian Department of Finance announced, on 22 March 2025, a 30-day public consultation period for interested stakeholders to comment on potential measures to respond to steel diversions from foreign countries.
www.ey.com www.ey.com

I'm sure that Canada will come to their senses, and see the benefit as a Vassal of our nation would provide.

Perhaps a History Lesson. Before World War One, Turkey approached England with a desire to enter into a Treaty with the English. The English dispatched a young Winston Churchill to tell Turkey no. One of Churchills greatest mistakes. He went and basically told Turkey that they were lucky to be considered a friend of England, and they should not do anything to jeopardize that friendship. Churchill rubbed salt and lemon into the wound by seizing the Warships Turkey had commissioned and paid for. A few months later, it became obvious that a Treaty with Turkey would have been worth any price. Turkey sided with the Germans, and cut off the Southern Route to Russia.

We are acting like those arrogant people of the past. Convinced we are awesome and no one would dare oppose us. Every time that happens in History, the arrogant folks suffer.
 
SavannahMann said:
We are acting like those arrogant people of the past. Convinced we are awesome and no one would dare oppose us. Every time that happens in History, the arrogant folks suffer.
Click to expand...
Canadians have no illusions about which country has the power and the money and the markets. We very much understand that we are the underdogs in this stupid war. However some Americans are greatly underestimating our resolve to decouple from the US to the degree we can. They are also arrogantly underestimating/ignoring their dependency on Canadian raw materials and natural resources. They can "strut" and "breast thump" all they want but the US needs us too. Sad thing is Canada is more than willing to negotiate a deal that is mutually beneficial but Trump wants none of that. He doesn't want a deal he wants capitulation and although we will likely have to give more than we would like, trust me it will not be capitulation.......it will be strategic.
 
Callen said:
Canadians have no illusions about which country has the power and the money and the markets.
Click to expand...

It's China. China has the power and the money and the markets.

We have a larger GDP for now just from riding on the coattails of our forefathers, but China is quickly outpacing us at twice our growth rate.

We were already losing our trade war with them before we started stabbing our allies in the back.
 
Callen said:
Canadians have no illusions about which country has the power and the money and the markets. We very much understand that we are the underdogs in this stupid war. However some Americans are greatly underestimating our resolve to decouple from the US to the degree we can. They are also arrogantly underestimating/ignoring their dependency on Canadian raw materials and natural resources. They can "strut" and "breast thump" all they want but the US needs us too. Sad thing is Canada is more than willing to negotiate a deal that is mutually beneficial but Trump wants none of that. He doesn't want a deal he wants capitulation and although we will likely have to give more than we would like, trust me it will not be capitulation.......it will be strategic.
Click to expand...

Oh I know. I believe that Canada will give, but not nearly as much as Trump wants. Time plays to Canada's favor, not Trump. If Canada gets the Chinese trade deal, and of course other trade deals going, then America's negotiating position will be weakened, not just now, but for the next couple decades.

Canada holds a couple Aces up their sleeve. If America gets too demanding or idiotic, then Canada can and I believe will withdraw from NORAD and cease providing Radar Data the American's depend upon. The result would be panic and then hastily scrambling to put Radar Planes flying along our northern border. You know those AWACS birds we have? They would be flying constantly, trying to plug the sudden gap that was created.

Trump doesn't have the Patience or Attention span to go too long. He demands a report and if it isn't what he wants to hear, reaches for his Hammer. More Tariffs! When that hammer doesn't work, he backs off and says now negotiate. Then he demands a report in three weeks on what the Negotiations have completed. He wants a done deal, not a process, and that is going to be his legacy. Weakened trade positions, weakened trade partnerships, and a handful of deals he can claim are great, but really aren't very good for anyone.

Trump is used to negotiating with people who want to deal with him. Architect's who want to design a Resort or Building. Construction people who want to be the ones building it. They want the deal too. Trump hasn't ever had a deal with the other party didn't want to work with him. So he gets frustrated and angry because they aren't doing what they're supposed to. He pulls his tricks and stomps away from the Negotiation letting someone else explain that they'll get him back but the other guys will have to bend on this point.

Canada isn't bending the way Trump wants. I honestly think he doesn't have a clue what to do. He's pulled his tricks and made his demands and Canada says if you do we will retaliate. That isn't the way his negotiations have gone in the past.

Look at Trump's Negotiation for Afghanistan. By the end of his first term he would agree to anything just to get a deal. Even if that anything was to hand over the Nation to the Taliban. If Canada holds out for another year or two Trump will likely give them Wisconsin just to get a signed deal. If Mexico holds out they're liable to get Texas back. Trump will sacrifice anything as he gets desperate enough for an end to the negotiations. Anything he can use to declare Victory.
 
Callen said:
Unfortunately Carney is going to have dumb it down a bit so the intellectual idiot can understand him.
Click to expand...


No.


What Trump is told by a foreign leader goes in one ear and out the other.

Canada has been dealing with the US for 250 years, much of the State Department are Canadian born. It appears excel at diplomacy.

It's at the officials level that Canada talks to the White House, and it is at that level Trump gets his briefing.

My read is that Trump hated Trudeau, loathed him for everything he is not, but knew Trudeau was smarter. Notice he never went face to face against Trudeau, only took digs behind his back.

Carney scares him. Carney should scare him. Carey has the ear and the respect of the world's bankers! And world leaders!

Unlike most politicians Carney is not knee-jerk. He's long term, plans within plans, and incredibly quick priorization of resources.

He's weak in the pressing the flesh department...but for THAT, Canadians will forgive him.

Give his minority time to gel and his cabinet to come up to speed. I think Canadians will be pleased
 
SavannahMann said:
Oh I know. I believe that Canada will give, but not nearly as much as Trump wants. Time plays to Canada's favor, not Trump. If Canada gets the Chinese trade deal, and of course other trade deals going, then America's negotiating position will be weakened, not just now, but for the next couple decades.

Canada holds a couple Aces up their sleeve. If America gets too demanding or idiotic, then Canada can and I believe will withdraw from NORAD and cease providing Radar Data the American's depend upon. The result would be panic and then hastily scrambling to put Radar Planes flying along our northern border. You know those AWACS birds we have? They would be flying constantly, trying to plug the sudden gap that was created.

Trump doesn't have the Patience or Attention span to go too long. He demands a report and if it isn't what he wants to hear, reaches for his Hammer. More Tariffs! When that hammer doesn't work, he backs off and says now negotiate. Then he demands a report in three weeks on what the Negotiations have completed. He wants a done deal, not a process, and that is going to be his legacy. Weakened trade positions, weakened trade partnerships, and a handful of deals he can claim are great, but really aren't very good for anyone.

Trump is used to negotiating with people who want to deal with him. Architect's who want to design a Resort or Building. Construction people who want to be the ones building it. They want the deal too. Trump hasn't ever had a deal with the other party didn't want to work with him. So he gets frustrated and angry because they aren't doing what they're supposed to. He pulls his tricks and stomps away from the Negotiation letting someone else explain that they'll get him back but the other guys will have to bend on this point.

Canada isn't bending the way Trump wants. I honestly think he doesn't have a clue what to do. He's pulled his tricks and made his demands and Canada says if you do we will retaliate. That isn't the way his negotiations have gone in the past.

Look at Trump's Negotiation for Afghanistan. By the end of his first term he would agree to anything just to get a deal. Even if that anything was to hand over the Nation to the Taliban. If Canada holds out for another year or two Trump will likely give them Wisconsin just to get a signed deal. If Mexico holds out they're liable to get Texas back. Trump will sacrifice anything as he gets desperate enough for an end to the negotiations. Anything he can use to declare Victory.
Click to expand...


"Canada can and I believe will withdraw from NORAD and cease providing Radar Data the American's depend upon."


I doubt that.

It's not our way and would weaken us in the long run.

Our response is what we are doing, quietly. In America the governments are vying, fighting actually for face time with the public.

Canadian governments know we don't like being disturbed, especially during the play offs.....and.....most importantly "mia culpa" is a lot easier than getting permission in three languages and across 17 recognized cultures along with the constitutionally enshrined rights of walruses.

So what we have been doing is kind of semi officially and quietly snuggling up to like Denmark, the Netherlands loves us, and Sweden who have a giant ****ing navy.

And ice breakers. New boats get announced from time to time, usually during the play offs so no one notices.

No one knows what armament they carry. "Armament? What? Can't hear you. Look, over there an Orca!"
 
SavannahMann said:
Canada holds a couple Aces up their sleeve. If America gets too demanding or idiotic, then Canada can and I believe will withdraw from NORAD and cease providing Radar Data the American's depend upon. The result would be panic and then hastily scrambling to put Radar Planes flying along our northern border. You know those AWACS birds we have? They would be flying cons
Click to expand...
Not sure about that but I absolutely think Carney will use Trump's Golden Dome as a bargaining chip. It doesn't work without Canadian agreement.
 
Cards which Canada can play against the Trump Administration:

  1. Reinstate the Digital Services Tax and up the rate each year on the USA to pay for the damage it's doing to the Canadian economy..
  2. Tax Monies flowing to US investors coming out of Canada. Encourage other countries to do the same.
  3. Redirect some oil exports going to the USA to build up a strategic petroleum reserve and pay for that reserve with monies raised by taxing resources bound for the USA. When pipelines to the Pacific, Atlantic, Hudson Bay and the Arctic oceans are completed divert more and more oil and gas exports from the US market to other buyers.
  4. Increase the price of Potash and fossil fuels to make fertilisers more expensive in order to hurt American agrobusiness and ma and pa farmers. Don't do this with other trading partners.
  5. Nationalise and convert US-owned automobile plants and auto parts plants to build military transportation and Canadian civilian cars and trucks. Develop liquid nitrogen based motors and engines to undermine both the electric and internal combustion engines which the USA wants to produce.
  6. Start cancelling arms and munitions procurement from US sources in a phased withdrawal that hurts powerful US interests. Replace cancelled procurements with Canadian made or other foreign military technologies, ideally built under licence in Canada. Then improve what we make and sell it abroad under cutting USA arms manufacturers.
  7. Begin a phased decoupling by the Canadian Armed Forces from the US Military as follows:
    1. Special Forces and clandestine operations cooperation.
    2. Stop cooperating with the US Government's global surveillance and American domestic spying through signal interception and cyber spying. Encourage the other eyes of the Five Eyes and a dozen satellite countries to withdraw too.
    3. Withdrawing from Land Warfare cooperation and redirect that cooperation to work with other NATO countries. Open large NATO training bases for NATO forces, Ukrainian forces and begin building a UN control global paramilitary constabulary far from the US-Canada border. .
    4. Withdrawing from Naval cooperation on the high seas and refocus on NATO cooperation.
    5. Withdrawing from Aerospace cooperation and as a penultimate resort from NORAD.
    6. Withdraw from strategic cooperation and as a last resort from the NPT and become a nuclear power in order to defend ourselves from Russia and the USA.
  8. Redirect electrical power towards newly built towns, cities and massive industrial complexes far from the US-Canadian border.
  9. Redirect food exports bound for the USA to build up a multiyear strategic food reserve for Canada in case of disaster or war.
  10. Forge new and fair trade relationships with Europe, Latin America, Africa, parts of Asia and Oceania.
  11. Hold a global Trade Conference with all willing countries except the USA to circumvent the need for as much trade as possible with the USA and then rapidly build a new global sub-economy which is far less dependent on the USA. Use that conference to also boycott as much arms and munitions purchases from America to globally starve the most powerful interests in American politics.
  12. Hold a global Financial conference with all nations except the USA to discuss how to degrade or cripple the American economy. Topis should include:
    1. Clone a new set of financial controls which exclude predominant American influence and create a non-American controlled SWIFT Banking transaction system.
    2. Expand the Digital Services Tax and Electronic Transaction taxes on monies from any countries hurt by Mr. Trump's chaotic trade policies headed to the USA.
    3. Diverting and interdicting investment into the USA and redirecting that investment to cooperating states.
    4. Dumping the American Dollar as the global reserve currency.
    5. Abandoning the Petro-dollar.
    6. Attacking cryptocurrencies so the US cannot shore up its greenback crisis with cryptocurrency.
    7. Tax US services and IP royalties as the monies leave other states.
    8. Boycott American Movies, television series, music etc. and charge onerous royalties taxes headed to the USA.
That's just a starting list. Punish the Trump Administration and powerful US interests until they, the Congress and/or the American electorate throw the bastard out on his arse and then lock him up for the 34 felonies for which he has been already found guilty while the American Government learns to abandon such chaotic policies for the foreseeable future.

Be well and be safe or poke the rabis beaver.
Evilroddy.
 
Last edited:
Evilroddy said:
Cards which Canada can play against the Trump Administration:

  1. Reinstate the Digital Services Tax and up the rate each year on the USA to pay for the damage it's doing to the Canadian economy..
  2. Tax Monies flowing to US investors coming out of Canada. Encourage other countries to do the same.
  3. Redirect some oil exports going to the USA to build up a strategic petroleum reserve and pay for that reserve with monies raised by taxing resources bound for the USA. When pipelines to the Pacific, Atlantic, Hudson Bay and the Arctic oceans are completed divert more and more oil and gas exports from the US market to other buyers.
  4. Increase the price of Potash and fossil fuels to make fertilisers more expensive in order to hurt American agrobusiness and ma and pa farmers. Don't do this with other trading partners.
  5. Nationalise and convert US-owned automobile plants and auto parts plants to build military transportation and Canadian civilian cars and trucks. Develop liquid nitrogen based motors and engines to undermine both the electric and internal combustion engines which the USA wants to produce.
  6. Start cancelling arms and munitions procurement from US sources in a phased withdrawal that hurts powerful US interests. Replace cancelled procurements with Canadian made or other foreign military technologies, ideally built under licence in Canada. Then improve what we make and sell it abroad under cutting USA arms manufacturers.
  7. Begin a phased decoupling by the Canadian Armed Forces from the US Military as follows:
    1. Special Forces and clandestine operations cooperation.
    2. Stop cooperating with the US Government's global surveillance and American domestic spying through signal interception and cyber spying. Encourage the other eyes of the Five Eyes and a dozen satellite countries to withdraw too.
    3. Withdrawing from Land Warfare cooperation and redirect that cooperation to work with other NATO countries. Open large NATO training bases for NATO forces, Ukrainian forces and begin building a UN control global paramilitary constabulary far from the US-Canada border. .
    4. Withdrawing from Naval cooperation on the high seas and refocus on NATO cooperation.
    5. Withdrawing from Aerospace cooperation and as a penultimate resort from NORAD.
    6. Withdraw from strategic cooperation and as a last resort from the NPT and become a nuclear power in order to defend ourselves from Russia and the USA.
  8. Redirect electrical power towards newly built towns, cities and massive industrial complexes far from the US-Canadian border.
  9. Redirect food exports bound for the USA to build up a multiyear strategic food reserve for Canada in case of disaster or war.
  10. Forge new and fair trade relationships with Europe, Latin America, Africa, parts of Asia and Oceania.
  11. Hold a global Trade Conference with all willing countries except the USA to circumvent the need for as much trade as possible with the USA and then rapidly build a new global sub-economy which is far less dependent on the USA. Use that conference to also boycott as much arms and munitions purchases from America to globally starve the most powerful interests in American politics.
  12. Hold a global Financial conference with all nations except the USA to discuss how to degrade or cripple the American economy. Topis should include:
    1. Clone a new set of financial controls which exclude predominant American influence and create a non-American controlled SWIFT Banking transaction system.
    2. Expand the Digital Services Tax and Electronic Transaction taxes on monies from any countries hurt by Mr. Trump's chaotic trade policies headed to the USA.
    3. Diverting and interdicting investment into the USA and redirecting that investment to cooperating states.
    4. Dumping the American Dollar as the global reserve currency.
    5. Abandoning the Petro-dollar.
    6. Attacking cryptocurrencies so the US cannot shore up its greenback crisis with cryptocurrency.
    7. Tax US services and IP royalties as the monies leave other states.
    8. Boycott American Movies, television series, music etc. and charge onerous royalties taxes headed to the USA.
That's just a starting list. Punish the Trump Administration and powerful US interests until they, the Congress and/or the American electorate throw the bastard out on his arse and then lock him up for the 34 felonies for which he has been already found guilty while the American Government learns to abandon such chaotic policies for the foreseeable future.

Be well and be safe or poke the rabis beaver.
Evilroddy.
Click to expand...
Easy man! You're going to trigger a shooting war. 🔫
 
Evilroddy said:
Reinstate the Digital Services Tax and up the rate each year on the USA to pay for the damage it's doing to the Canadian economy..
Click to expand...
Your PM has already caved on that one. No need for me to read further. He would likely cave on those as well. :D
 
MAGAnificent said:
It was your PM that caved on proceeding with the tax.🐔
Click to expand...
The tax was passed into law two years ago with an effective date of June 30th. He had nothing to do with implementing it. He paused it to allow the continuation of negotiations.
 
Queen Margo said:
I hear that about Door County being a Chicagoans go to destination.
I definitely would recommend Door County. You have Sturgeon Bay, Egg Harbor, Sister Bay, Ephraim, up to I believe Gills Rock or Washington Island if you want to take the ferry over. Small drive with so many towns to shop, eat, stay. It is a unique finger of Wisconsin.
I don't think you can compare Traverse City with Door County.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply, Queen Margo.

Yeah, Door County's been a popular destination for Chicagoans, alright. And, I worry it could be getting worse.

Even worse yet, might be the Dells! Every Chicago kid has been to the Dells, at least once. It's pretty much a right of passage!

Not too long ago, I went to Benton Harbor (MI) for the weekend. It was ridiculous. The place was literally wall-to-wall Chicagoans. I'm not kidding. The vast majority of everyone there was from the city. And every business seemed to be catering to Chicago tourists offering the stuff they thought Chicagoans like. What's the point in getting a "Chicago Hot Dog", in Benton harbor? How culturally enriching is that?

Anyway, when I travel I like to hang with the locals at local hang-outs. Can't stand touristy stuff.

Queen Margo said:
I hope you do start this thread. I do about 3 or 4 road trips a year. We did a Savannah Georgia/ Panhandle Florida this May, a short run to Bentonville, Arkansas in June. Next up in 2 weeks Sioux City South Dakota, and in August a long one to Maine, and West Virginia. I love the road trips and seeing all the quirky things that pop up!
Click to expand...

I must admit I like the idea of a thread. Your road-tripping is exactly the content I'd like to see. I'll be sure to send you a P.M., if I ever get around to starting one.

I envy your going to Maine & WV. Both New England & West Virginia are high on my to-visit-list, though I would probably do them separately.

New England's a no brainer. But WV is more off the beaten path. And for me, that's exactly the draw. I want to see how others live, not how they market themselves to me as a tourist. And rural WV sounds exactly like what I want.

I'm a huge fan of Bill Monore & Blue grass. If I hear "Country Roads" down there, I'm hoping it would be by guys like these in the video below!


 
Last edited:
Allan said:
Easy man! You're going to trigger a shooting war. 🔫
Click to expand...
Allan:

This is already an economic war for our sovereignty, as openly declared on multiple occasions by Mr. Trump himself and we have no allies close at hand. Pretending otherwise is just delusional. So Canada should adopt an escalatory response to the Trump Administration's predatory tariffs and to all attempts to extort concessions so that the American people begin to feel acutely the cost and pain of this man's arrogant foreign policy. No backing down, no caving in, maximum pain.If Mr. Trump can impose 50% tariffs on Brazil because his buddy Jair Bolsonaro is facing prosecution for trying to seize power from a duly elected government and if he can threaten to kill everyone in Gaza to get back hostages and develop real estate, then playing his game by diplomatic means is a losing strategy. So come out swinging and swing harder and harder as time progresses to drive a wedge between the Administration and the monied elites, the financial markets, agribusiness, the military suppliers and the armed forces in America until domeone leashes and reins in this vile oath-breaker and compulsive liar..
 
lol... First we hear America can't get by without Mexicans.

And now they want us to believe without Canadian support among alcoholics the end is near.

LMAO. :ROFLMAO:
 
US Dollar Dominance and the abuse of deficit financing of an unsustainable economy (what the French labelled the "Exorbitant Privilege") have allowed the US to become the major importer of finished goods and resources which have made the US economy so important to the demand for global trade. That demand is bult on debt and debt is weakness because that importance was and is still based on financing exorbitant debt. Spending by exorbitant debt accumulation, financing that debt with a US Dollar as the currency of much international debt, military dominance and control of the mechanisms of multilateral finance and commerce/trade are the pillars upon which this system works and survives. These are also the Achilles' heels of American Trade dominance and thus should be the focus of constructing a multinational counter strategy to pressure the Trump tariff-based policies, making them more ineffective to other states and as painful and self-harming as possible to America. Since American military dominance and its ability to serially wage wars of choice abroad in service of supporting American economic and political interests and dominance, both dollar dominance and military dominance are closely linked and can both be severely degraded by smart, nonviolent, multilateral cooperative policies by states trying to push back against Mr. Trump's tariff fetish. Furthermore the pushback will be strengthened by the Trump Administration's own policies themselves which are already eroding US Dollar Dominance on their own. Attacking US Dollar Dominance and blocking its ability to achieve US Cryptocurrency Dominance are the keys to defeating the Trump Administration's policies vis a vis tariffs and the global tariff-based tax farming which Mr. Trump envisions as a tool to further enrich the American monied elites. Begin to undermine US Dollar Dominance and American elites and corporations will turn on Mr. Trump and his minions out desperation to maintain their economic and political dominance,

www.atlanticcouncil.org

Why the US cannot afford to lose dollar dominance

Since World War II, US geopolitical influence has been compounded by the role of the dollar as the world’s dominant currency.
www.atlanticcouncil.org www.atlanticcouncil.org

www.brookings.edu

The changing role of the US dollar | Brookings

This post explains the role of the U.S. dollar in the global economy and the debate over its future.
www.brookings.edu www.brookings.edu

Be well and be safe.
Evilroddy.
 
Hamish Howl said:
You don't appease an idiot like Trump.
Click to expand...
I think Trump is learning that our PM is neither an appeaser nor a man who overreacts with escalation.

That's the sweet spot countries need to inhabit.
 
NatMorton said:
You'll be back.
Click to expand...
Quite likely. We are after all neighbours. However there is going to be a lot of pain on both sides of the border before that happens. For no good reason.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom