The twists the turns the gyrations.

[cabse5]

The lower income people would have less guns? How's that working out in the Hood right now?

There's lots of drug money floating around...everywhere.

 

[Crimefree]

Did you read the 'ring of fire' article I posted for you? The guns are so cheap and such poor quality that you can "cut the metal with a knife." The 'ring of fire' guns account for about 35% of all guns used in crime and homicides....which is about the only thing they are good for since they're considered unreliable if not useless for self defense and hunting.

Self defence requires a reliable firearm the same with hunting. You going to take a Jennings ring of fire gun to Africa and hunt lion? When you have to trust your life to something what are you going to buy? The cheapest piece of crap you can find?

I think I stated I read it clearly. Apparently better than you JENNINGS make the ring of fire crap. It's one make of gun and and you are trying to claim proof by cherry picking and extension. Said another way one swallow does not a summer make. The end of most guns is in deliberate destruction. Given a little bit of care they will last a thousand years.

Is it your contention all guns are made like the Jennings? Just asking.

 

[Moot]

Self defence requires a reliable firearm the same with hunting. You going to take a Jennings ring of fire gun to Africa and hunt lion? When you have to trust your life to something what are you going to buy? The cheapest piece of crap you can find?

I think I stated I read it clearly. Apparently better than you JENNINGS make the ring of fire crap. It's one make of gun and and you are trying to claim proof by cherry picking and extension. Said another way one swallow does not a summer make. The end of most guns is in deliberate destruction. Given a little bit of care they will last a thousand years.

Is it your contention all guns are made like the Jennings? Just asking.

What a goofy post. lol It undermines your comprehension to follow a discussion in oh so many ways.

 

[jet57]

I'm confused is the argument that gun shows aren't real, or that people don't trade among themselves at gun shows and not just the booth?

Because I go to Gun Shows all the time in my area, and I frequently buy and trade from none vendors. Although not in the parking lot, usually take the guys number and go shooting with him later to test out the guns. Then make the trade or buy. Half the guns my grandpa left me were obtained over the cb radio. So you don't really need the internet or a gun show to bypass all laws. Just a 60 dollar radio.

I wouldn't buy a gun from a guy with a trunkful, that seems like a bad idea. And if they are at gun shows I've never met one.

I was referring to the the truck trades done in the parking lots at these shows, which is why a lot of groups that produce them have been getting a lot of heat. I don't buy that way myself, so I just mentioned it and Harshaw jumped in and decided I was a liar. I showed him that I wasn't.

That's all it is.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I've been to several gun shows dude: I'm a gun owner.

Have you ever seen the car trunks of some of the cars at gun shows?

Car prowling is illegal

 

[jet57]

Car prowling is illegal

(cough)

I guess you haven't been to many shows...

The owners of the cars, open their trunks to show interested parties what they have for sale.

I didn't think my point needed that much detail.

 

[Crimefree]

Tell me how having more guns in the population prevents gun violence. Tell me the city. The statistic.

More gun in the population does not stop or prevent crime UNLESS it is well publicised. It is the perception that criminals have of greater risk.

Firearms and women

In 1966 Orlando Florida had a rape epidemic, they did not declare the town rape free or crime free, set up safe zones, suggest women lay back and enjoy it, beg and plead or have busy bodies handing out pamphlets telling women to stay at home for their own safety. The police (considerably more enlightened and pro-active than the SA version) set up a training program to train some 3000 women with firearms, encouraging them to purchase their own if they did not own a firearm. This training program was much publicised in the media.

What were the results? The next year rape fell by 88 percent in Orlando (the only major city to experience a decrease that year); burglary fell by 25 percent. Not one of the 2,500 women trained actually ended up firing her firearm; the deterrent effect of the publicity sufficed. Five years later Orlando's rape rate was still 13 percent below the pre-program level, whereas the surrounding standard metropolitan area had suffered a 308 percent increase.

The cost of this intervention, which gave the phenomenal results, was insignificant. No other intervention has shown greater promise of drastically reducing rape and other crimes.

At least 40,000 other women of Orlando derived a direct benefit and owe a great gratitude to those brave women who undertook training and accepted responsibility for their own safety.

While the results of Orlando are subject to much debate the results of other similar publicised training programs for armed merchants sharply reduced robberies in stores in Highland Park, Michigan, and in New Orleans; a grocer's organisation's gun clinics produced the same result in Detroit. More recently the removal of gun control laws and relaxing or removal of right to carry laws has seen a revolution in crime reduction. The USA now has the lowest crime rate in its recorded history.

What can be said of any organisation that promotes gun control and advises women not to fight back and give everything including rape to criminals?~~Crimefree 2009.

Tell me how the stop and frisk philosophy that lead to a drop in violent crimes in New York City corroborates the more guns philosophy?

It does not. Guns on there own cannot reduce crime or increase crime. There is no causal mechanism. However the more people who have guns the more likely criminals are stopped or deterred. If this becomes know due to publicity that increases criminals fear of facing an armed victim and this reduces CONFRONTATIONAL crime.

 

[Crimefree]

View attachment 67204703

(cough)

I guess you haven't been to many shows...

The owners of the cars, open their trunks to show interested parties what they have for sale.

I didn't think my point needed that much detail.

What was your point that one can legislate criminals selling from car boots into getting FFL's and doing background checks?

If it was how dumb do you think it is?

 

[cabse5]

nm...

 

[cabse5]

More gun in the population does not stop or prevent crime UNLESS it is well publicised. It is the perception that criminals have of greater risk.

Firearms and women

In 1966 Orlando Florida had a rape epidemic, they did not declare the town rape free or crime free, set up safe zones, suggest women lay back and enjoy it, beg and plead or have busy bodies handing out pamphlets telling women to stay at home for their own safety. The police (considerably more enlightened and pro-active than the SA version) set up a training program to train some 3000 women with firearms, encouraging them to purchase their own if they did not own a firearm. This training program was much publicised in the media.

What were the results? The next year rape fell by 88 percent in Orlando (the only major city to experience a decrease that year); burglary fell by 25 percent. Not one of the 2,500 women trained actually ended up firing her firearm; the deterrent effect of the publicity sufficed. Five years later Orlando's rape rate was still 13 percent below the pre-program level, whereas the surrounding standard metropolitan area had suffered a 308 percent increase.

The cost of this intervention, which gave the phenomenal results, was insignificant. No other intervention has shown greater promise of drastically reducing rape and other crimes.

At least 40,000 other women of Orlando derived a direct benefit and owe a great gratitude to those brave women who undertook training and accepted responsibility for their own safety.

While the results of Orlando are subject to much debate the results of other similar publicised training programs for armed merchants sharply reduced robberies in stores in Highland Park, Michigan, and in New Orleans; a grocer's organisation's gun clinics produced the same result in Detroit. More recently the removal of gun control laws and relaxing or removal of right to carry laws has seen a revolution in crime reduction. The USA now has the lowest crime rate in its recorded history.

What can be said of any organisation that promotes gun control and advises women not to fight back and give everything including rape to criminals?~~Crimefree 2009.



It does not. Guns on there own cannot reduce crime or increase crime. There is no causal mechanism. However the more people who have guns the more likely criminals are stopped or deterred. If this becomes know due to publicity that increases criminals fear of facing an armed victim and this reduces CONFRONTATIONAL crime.

I'm not advocating taking guns off streets, I'm advocating taking guns out of the hands of those who abuse guns with crime. No one seems to be able to stop this epidemic (and it is an epidemic).
Gun advocates, like you, turn a blind eye to thousands in neighborhoods across the country owning and using guns like personal vigilantes. Do you trust their judgement? Can you stop their abuse of guns? Do we just have to live with gun violence?

Do you even venture a solution? Or are you gonna come up with another stupid slogan?

 

[Crimefree]

What a goofy post. lol It undermines your comprehension to follow a discussion in oh so many ways.

You going to post any evidence of that idiotic ad hominem claim or are you just defending your false belief with all you know?

You don't have an answer and resort to a personal attack and ridicule. Gun control advocates are so boringly predictable with their cognitive dissonance.and inability to think for themselves.

Read the words again slowly or get somebody smarter than you to explain it to you. Basically your claims got trashed and you have nothing and never had anything.

Here ask a more intelligent person to explain this to you with reference to your previous post.

Is it your contention all guns are made like the Jennings?

 

[Crimefree]

I'm not advocating taking guns off streets, I'm advocating taking guns out of the hands of those who abuse guns with crime. No one seems to be able to stop this epidemic (and it is an epidemic).

First neither you, gun control, government or anyone can take guns out of criminals hands. The only hands they CAN BE REMOVED from are guns from law-abiding citizens. Is that what you want.

Start with an easy one. How does government take drugs out of criminals hands? Does anyone have more than a few minutes problem in finding illegal drugs? Show me how you intend to be more successful than that.

Gun advocates, like you, turn a blind eye to thousands in neighborhoods across the country owning and using guns like personal vigilantes

Did that make you feel better?

You just made a huge mistake. Did you look at my avatar? Read it. What I refuse to turn a blind eye to is the diversion of enormous funding, waste of resources and manpower that gun control has caused. You tell me what those places would be like if that waste was given to solving the social problems that CAUSE crime. I will not be part of the anti-social criminals friends who advocate such waste. I leave that to the utter stupidity, idiocy and oppressive nature of gun control advocates.

Do you trust their judgement? Can you stop their abuse of guns? Do we just have to live with gun violence?

If I did live with a violent person I would be sensible enough to realise it was my choice and risk. You seem to be mistaken so I ask do you want me to stop people pounding in nails with their gun?

If you want me to stop people from committing violent crime (shame on your myopic choice of firearms only) then I have already made my suggestion known. I am not so uncaring and ideologically driven as to have a hang up with guns only.

Do you even venture a solution? Or are you gonna come up with another stupid slogan?

I have many times offered a solution that has all the proof in the word of working to reduce crime but you and your ilk are not in the least interested as it has nothing to do with removing guns from law-abiding citizens. The causes of crime are not unknown. Which ones can you name?

 

[Moot]

You going to post any evidence of that idiotic ad hominem claim or are you just defending your false belief with all you know?

You don't have an answer and resort to a personal attack and ridicule. Gun control advocates are so boringly predictable with their cognitive dissonance.and inability to think for themselves.

Read the words again slowly or get somebody smarter than you to explain it to you. Basically your claims got trashed and you have nothing and never had anything.

Here ask a more intelligent person to explain this to you with reference to your previous post.

Is it your contention all guns are made like the Jennings?

That's your contention...Mr. Strawman.

 

[jet57]

I have. You haven't. You repeat a stupid, paranoid myth.

Let's clear up that myth! shall we?

These are links to gun show parking lot sales stories, just fished off the net.

Gun control: Should we close the Gun Show Loophole? - The Wilson Post



Easy Access: $5,000 and One Hour Buys 10 Guns - ABC News


You might to read them Hareshaw; not myth - fact.

 

[TurtleDude]

Let's clear up that myth! shall we?

These are links to gun show parking lot sales stories, just fished off the net.

Gun control: Should we close the Gun Show Loophole? - The Wilson Post



Easy Access: $5,000 and One Hour Buys 10 Guns - ABC News


You might to read them Hareshaw; not myth - fact.

no matter how many lies the BM tells or you repeat, there is no such thing as a gun show loophole because there is no difference in laws at a gun show than any other place in a state. what that silly story written by a Bannnerrhoid refuses to tell you is that he could have done the same thing any place in the state

 

[Harshaw]

no matter how many lies the BM tells or you repeat, there is no such thing as a gun show loophole because there is no difference in laws at a gun show than any other place in a state. what that silly story written by a Bannnerrhoid refuses to tell you is that he could have done the same thing any place in the state

^^^^^

 

[jet57]

^^^^^

The stories show that parking lot car trunk gun sales are real, and just as I said, do take place.

So you are wrong. The evidence is there to show it.

 

[Harshaw]

The stories show that parking lot car trunk gun sales are real, and just as I said, do take place.

So you are wrong. The evidence is there to show it.

As usual, your understanding is nil. The sales aren't the myth. The loophole is. And never mind understanding what I post, if you understood what YOU post, you'd know you already confirmed this yourself.

Stop picking fights. You'll end up less humiliated that way.

 

[TurtleDude]

The stories show that parking lot car trunk gun sales are real, and just as I said, do take place.

So you are wrong. The evidence is there to show it.

I guess you are unable to understand that this does not establish a loophole. Its never been a federal law that private citizens have to conduct background checks, Not before the Brady bill was enacted, not after the Brady Bill was enacted. So again-as usual-you are just plain not being truthful about the law, the facts and reality

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

No, it's a good article and says this

Black market guns can be and are purchased at gun shows: the car trunk loophole, that is getting shows into trouble.

Ever been to a gun show, and seen inside people's trunks?

I have been to plenty of gun shows and they were all frequented by law enforcement. And none that i have been too lets just anyone off the street have a space to sell. And they dont just let anyone inside either. There is a lot of money being exchanged inside the show so the people putting on the show have to provide security which is usually off duty cops.

 

[TurtleDude]

I have been to plenty of gun shows and they were all frequented by law enforcement. And none that i have been too lets just anyone off the street have a space to sell. And they dont just let anyone inside either. There is a lot of money being exchanged inside the show so the people putting on the show have to provide security which is usually off duty cops.

The major promoter in SW Ohio (Bill Goodman Productions) has security patrol the parking lot since he doesn't want to lose admission fees to those engaging in sales in the parking lot.. and yes, I see at least a dozen cops or Feds at every gun show I attend-and these people are not in uniform.

ALSO there is taped surveillance of the inside of the show.

 

[jet57]

As usual, your understanding is nil. The sales aren't the myth. The loophole is. And never mind understanding what I post, if you understood what YOU post, you'd know you already confirmed this yourself.

Stop picking fights. You'll end up less humiliated that way.

I never said anything about the loophole. The "parking lot loophole" was a facetious phrase I used to point out the nonsense. I was talking about illegal gun sales dude, and you said it was myth: it isn't. It was alluded to in the OP article:

This hypothetical violent predator, after having committed three crimes, could still easily purchase a gun today if he knows how to use Craigslist or find a local gun show.

You completely misinterpreted what I was saying and turned it into a useless attack.

 

[jet57]

I have been to plenty of gun shows and they were all frequented by law enforcement. And none that i have been too lets just anyone off the street have a space to sell. And they dont just let anyone inside either. There is a lot of money being exchanged inside the show so the people putting on the show have to provide security which is usually off duty cops.

I never said anything about sellers inside the venue. I have been talking about what goes on outside the hall, and there are more cops these days as a result of the parking lot activity.

My point was solely on that illegal stuff. Inside the halls of good shows it's great.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

I never said anything about sellers inside the venue. I have been talking about what goes on outside the hall, and there are more cops these days as a result of the parking lot activity.

My point was solely on that illegal stuff. Inside the halls of good shows it's great.

I would imagine that most illegal sales of firearms happens away from places frequented by law enforcement. And the sales that do happen near gunshows probably makes it easy for law enforcement to bust them. Its like cops waiting outside of a bar for drunk drivers.

 

[jet57]

I would imagine that most illegal sales of firearms happens away from places frequented by law enforcement. And the sales that do happen near gunshows probably makes it easy for law enforcement to bust them. Its like cops waiting outside of a bar for drunk drivers.

Yeah, I'd say your right. I'm sure that many guns have sold to undercover cops at these events.