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The Truth About The So-Called War On Terror

Pancho Angry

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Terrorism is a technique, not an ideology.
People who engage in 'terrorism' have few other reasonable means to wage war, generally.
Ergo, to be at war with 'terrorism' is to be at war with anyone opposing us who is without reasonable means to wage war i.e. with tanks and planes, etc.

Or, for the truly lumbering loonies, we've decided to wage war with any of the poor who won't buckle under. Only my fellow ill-educated Americans are dumb enough to go for that, hook, line and sinker.

So are you self-described 'patriots' going to send me to the sewer again? Who told you a coward can be a patriot, boys? Some administration chickenhawk?
 
The fact that the united nations is still as yet unable to define terrorism is problematic in my opinion.
 
talloulou said:
The fact that the united nations is still as yet unable to define terrorism is problematic in my opinion.

Terrorism is violence against civilians, or the threat of it.

The terrorists's ideology is one that allows for the justification of violence, through dogma. (Not islam, in Islam only a Muslim cleric can declare a Jihad and Al'Qaeda or Usama had no right by islamic standards to initiate a holy war)

We justify the use of violence with national security. The difference between us and them is that we dont target civilians (although we do commit violence against some, such is the nature of a war, especially with a faceless enemy)

By the way your post would constitute "flame baiting." Just who are you trying to rile up? Who are you calling a coward?

Whether or not you are for or against the war is irrelevant, a patriot is someone who defends the constitution against all enemies, who are you to be the judge of how patriotic some of our board members are?

What was the purpose of this thread? To debate the semantics of the word "Terrorism"?

I can tell you're upset with all that red lettering, upset at the Bush administration it seems. But is the point you were making that we shouldnt be fighting them because they lack the capacity to fight us on a battlefield?
 
A really strange post!

Pancho said:
Or, for the truly lumbering loonies, we've decided to wage war with any of the poor who won't buckle under. Only my fellow ill-educated Americans are dumb enough to go for that, hook, line and sinker.

Pancho, what, exactly, are you trying to say with the above two statements? First, you say that, "we've decided to wage war with any of the poor who won't buckle under." Then you follow that by saying that only "Americans are dumb enough to go for that". In other words, you just made an assertion, followed by a statement that no Americans are sufficiently dumb to believe that the assertion you just made is true. Wierd.

I get the impression that what you wrote is not exactly the message you meant to convey. It seems like you're trying to say that anyone who does not believe that we went to war with anyone too poor to afford planes, tanks, etc. is really, really dumb. Is that right?

If so, you are totally full of horse poop. Just review, if you will, the record of who has attacked whom over the last two or three decades. In doing so, you will see immediately that those folks may be without tanks, planes, etc., but they have plenty of exposives and no shortage of ingenuity and have initiated attack after attack on not only us, but the western world in general, culminating in the attacks of 9/11. After which, we finally responded with appropriate military force.
 
Lachean said:
Terrorism is violence against civilians, or the threat of it.

As far as I know the UN has not accepted that definition or any other as of yet to define terrorism.....though they have been working on it for decades.

The terrorists's ideology is one that allows for the justification of violence, through dogma. (Not islam, in Islam only a Muslim cleric can declare a Jihad and Al'Qaeda or Usama had no right by islamic standards to initiate a holy war)

So must terrorism, in your opinion, be connected to religion?

We justify the use of violence with national security. The difference between us and them is that we dont target civilians (although we do commit violence against some, such is the nature of a war, especially with a faceless enemy)

If we drop a bomb on a house to kill a terrorist, like Zarqawi, and we know before we drop the bomb that there is a 5 y.o. little girl in the house as well......is that targeting civilians?

What was the purpose of this thread? To debate the semantics of the word "Terrorism"?

I find the semantics of terrorism to be quite interesting.
 
talloulou said:
So must terrorism, in your opinion, be connected to religion?

Not at all, thats why I used the word dogma. Although I do hold religion responsible for the ugliest parts of history, religion and altruism.

talloulou said:
If we drop a bomb on a house to kill a terrorist, like Zarqawi, and we know before we drop the bomb that there is a 5 y.o. little girl in the house as well......is that targeting civilians?

No it isnt targetting civilians, thats collateral damage. That doesnt justify sacrificing a 5 year old Iraqi girl.

talloulou said:
I find the semantics of terrorism to be quite interesting.

I see that. Your questions are very carefully. But ill not fall into your traps...
 
Lachean said:
Terrorism is violence against civilians, or the threat of it.

So, by your definition, anyone who commits a simple assault ....as defined by U.S. law standards...... is also a terrorist...


Gotcha.
 
Caine said:
So, by your definition, anyone who commits a simple assault ....as defined by U.S. law standards...... is also a terrorist...


Gotcha.

Go back and read it again. CivilianS. Anyone can up and decide to submit to the agenda of Al'Qaeda, thats why a war against an idea is so dangerous. They're a terrorist once they commit violence against 1 or more civilians either in their country or ours. Clear enough?

Who said anything about a US law assault. Assault as it is defined is "The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another."

I said violence inspired by dogma. If I threatened to punch you in the face, that woiuldnt make me an enemy of the state.
 
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Lachean said:
Go back and read it again. CivilianS. Anyone can up and decide to submit to the agenda of Al'Qaeda, thats why a war against an idea is so dangerous. They're a terrorist once they commit violence against 1 or more civilians either in their country or ours. Clear enough?

Who said anything about a US law assault. Assault as it is defined is "The act or an instance of unlawfully threatening or attempting to injure another."

I said violence inspired by dogma. If I threatened to punch you in the face, that woiuldnt make me an enemy of the state.

You said terrorism is the use or threat of violence on civilians.

And, "the agenda of Al Qaeda" has nothing to do with a definition of terrorism.

They weren't the first.
And they won't be the last.

We've had domestic terrorists, were they actually secretly a part of Al Qaeda?
I think not.
 
Caine said:
You said terrorism is the use or threat of violence on civilians.

And, "the agenda of Al Qaeda" has nothing to do with a definition of terrorism.

They weren't the first.
And they won't be the last.

We've had domestic terrorists, were they actually secretly a part of Al Qaeda?
I think not.

Im sorry if you confused my statements, but I never implied that Al Qaeda had a monopoly on terrorism. We have no disagreement on that one.
 
Terrorism is the ideological view by some to use as a tactic in war. They put stock in the idea that acts of terror will help them win the war they are involved in against a superior force. But that's all it is. You cannot have a war against "terror" itself. You cannot have a war against an ideology. They did not call WWII, "War on Blitzkrieg". And for those who think you can, then answer the question I have asked on several occasions that no neocon, chicken-hawk, bullshit Christian Republican or anyone in favor of Bush's War has been able to answer:

When will the war end?
What specific events must occur for us to have our VE or VJ day? You pro-war assholes have never answered this question. Not one of you has even tried. But that didn't stop you from starting a war that has no ending.

Looking back on all of this, the only reason you have left for invading Iraq is faulty intelligence.
 
Billo_Really said:
What specific events must occur for us to have our VE or VJ day? You pro-war assholes have never answered this question. Not one of you has even tried. But that didn't stop you from starting a war that has no ending.
Looking back on all of this, the only reason you have left for invading Iraq is faulty intelligence.


After Iraq, Militant Islamic assholes will fall back to "Blame the USA for the Palestine bullshit"

When will the war on Terrorism end?
Never...

BUT

To leave Iraq with a stable government its people can foster hope in.
but it would be a good start.

How about that?
 
Originally posted by Cherokee:
After Iraq, Militant Islamic assholes will fall back to "Blame the USA for the Palestine bullshit"

When will the war on Terrorism end?
Never...

BUT

To leave Iraq with a stable government its people can foster hope in.
but it would be a good start.

How about that?
Whether you are right or wrong, you are certainly the only person so far that has had the balls (and been man enough) to take a shot at it.

Kudos!
 

pg. 304 from the book, "The Hydra of Carnage" by Craig B. Hulet
THE CORONATION OF GEORGE


As SOCIETY BEGINS THE SLOW AND INEVITABLE PROCESS of replacing its older religions with a new faith, regardless of its makeup, a period ensues whereby the existing terminology no longer explains properly the old nor the new. Old terms remain in use even while they are no longer descriptive of reality. Yet during the transition period, when the new faith begins to displace, for many people, the older beliefs and ceremonies, there is no word, no turn of a phrase, that explains precisely what is taking place: although many new words are being coined each year, they are words about the details, about this or that aspect, but remain without a foundational usage overall. A new language is needed.
It is here that is troubling for the analyst, whether using a descriptive or analytical approach. The analytical philosopher too cannot help but use old terms redefined or metaphors in place of clearer prose. Nevertheless, to see the clear outlines of the new regime, whether political, economic, or religious, each is in a sense a new faith. Most political factions and parties are nothing more than surrogate religious beliefs overlaying issues that replace lost hopes and failed faiths in other areas of society. Even atheism for many of its adher- ents is but a replacement for the mystical yearning for personal satisfaction, spiritual renewal, or as rejection of some religious bases of cultural aspects the individual has need of without the old tradition.
Thus the analyst finds that to describe the present coming regime, called many things (Global Regime, global regime of economic interdependence, The New World Order, etc.), must simultaneously depict the economic aspect of what it is, the political power that brings it to fruition, and the glue that holds it together. It is the glue that has the religious trappings and terminology describing the other two. That it can be described as a new religion is the same reason all "isms" can: fascism, communism, racism, feminism, all partymen are of a religious faith; Republicans and Democrats as much as Mensheviks and Bolsheviks. The new global religion which has taken hold of the American psyche is Corporatism. The clearest manifestation of its pure faith is materialism. As with most religions the thing it is called and thing it acts upon are synonymous and interchangeable. Corporatism is the name we give to the regime of materialism that people have replaced their old faiths with. But other than this simple deduction, the analyst is left with little descriptive terminology to further describe the how, the who and the what it will encompass, what it will mean when in full bloom. The term Globalization or Globalism has been addressed by this author elsewhere and for many years.
I'm just tickled to death I've finally learned how to do my scanjet. I'm very computer stupid.

What does the preceding excerpt have to do with the truth about the so-called war on terror? Everything. The War on Terror was started to facilitate globalization through corporatism. And if you don't think this is important now, you will when you get laid off and realize you are living in a third world nation.
 
pg. 306 and 307 from the book
"The Hydra of Carnege"
by Craig B. Hulet


The Folklore of Corporatism

Every new religion must displace the old traditions. It has been pointed out often just how tenaciously the obsolete Gods thrash about in an effort to survive. The old never passes over to the new without a fight. The fight is already over and Corporatism has won the day; it has not as yet won the minds of the old believers and old priests and so confusion reigns. In part, the old believers cannot understand the new folklore of Corporatism because they attempt to understand it using the old words, the old language and the old definitions.

To understand the new Priesthood requires understanding how they have redefined the terms of the debate. President George Bush Jr. will have as his main responsibility pressing forward the new language and semantics, guided by the best scribes the state can summon to service, to explain to a bewildered herd that what is new is not new but the same old they have always known. His primary focus will be to adapt old institutions and ancient rituals to the new; diffuse further state power over to international governance and its international bodies; no differently than when the Pope, of ancient times, overlaying pagan religious practices with Catholicism's new rites, while the old was still in practice by the converted. Bush II, the little sprout, as father and emperor must use old words, old names, old dogmas to convince the stupefied faithful that the new paradigm is but the old dressed-up in less wornout robes.

The people remain believers in free enterprise while free enterprise has been utterly decimated by regulatory agencies, confiscatory taxation and the managed centralizing economy now called our mixed economy. "Mixed" sounds better than "managed" so mixed is utilized to make comforting the transition to a non-free enterprise system. This does not imply anything like a socialist economy, the means of production remain in the hands of private for profit individuals; it is, though, at the same time not free to all, but only free for those with the right connections, fraternal and corporate, and thus not free at all.

Mergers and acquisitions, ongoing since the Reagan and Bush Sr. and Clinton era, continue apace with no end in sight. It shall be never-ending. Media scribes in corporate employ betray their ignorance each time they "see the end in sight," with mergers a thing of the recent past. There shall never be an end to the centralization of power and corporate combinations. In fact, the process of downsizing and consolidation has not even begun compared to what is yet to come.

It is this shift, a very real paradigm shift, that has been growing clearer Industrial Policy chaired by Corporatism's best and brightest lights. It is here that serfs, peasants and most experts miss entirely. The government within government, as represented by the corporate structure is no different than the government of the public sector. The private sector, the you and I as subject and labor, taxpayer and subsidy recipient, have no government representing our interests. The people no longer have an America that represents them versus the old view of democratic governance, nor an aristocracy nor monarchy. The nation in nation-state no longer exists. Nation has always meant that body of people that formed the State to represent them and protect their interests and unalienable rights. For thirty years that entity has not existed except in language; it exists in the flock's mind as faith and the sacred; it has not existed in the guarantees outlined in the United States Constitution since the seventies.

The nation (people) no longer have representation but obligations; they have areas to obey and conform; they have the police power ever watchful over their continued obedience; they have duties to the State, but no liberties, no rights whatsoever. What remains of Rights is the light heartedness of fashion and dress, T.V. and the Internet, personal proclivities that do not matter like sexual preferences and abortion rights. But in all things that matter they have no rights, only obligations.

So whose rights and liberties does the State, then, represent? For whom do the rulers (Bush, et al) govern? Whose rights and privileges, freedom and whose free-enterprise is protected and promoted? We have all heard the term, but think it means something from our past catechism, our past faith and ceremonies. In the corporate-state, the corporate has replaced the people in a nation-state configuration that has no relationship to the past terminology still in use today. The new religion of Corporatism shall use the terms "Nation," "free enterprise" and "free-market" as long as the people (the nation) remain believers in the old faith. The old taboos will hold. The old sermons retold. The old priests from the left and right shall supply the dialectic. But they shall supply apologia for dead gods and dead faiths.
This is the reality of what is going on right now in the world today. This is the real reason for the war on terror. With the focus not on terrorists, but us.
 
Lachean said:
We justify the use of violence with national security. The difference between us and them is that we dont target civilians...

By the way your post would constitute "flame baiting." Just who are you trying to rile up? Who are you calling a coward?

What was the purpose of this thread? To debate the semantics of the word "Terrorism"?

...is the point you were making that we shouldnt be fighting them because they lack the capacity to fight us on a battlefield?

You missed a few points here. The difference between us and them is, since we're a 'democracy' we ARE legitimate targets - whereas THEY have a dictator/monarch, etc. It's a long held tenet of war that the head of state (us in our country, supposedly) is a legitimate target in war. If you don't want to be a target, stop letting the lumbering loonies elect their golden boys, like Bush. (And, by the way, if Bin Laden had wanted to kill mere AVERAGE JOES, he'd a targeted the Super Bowl, not the Twin Towers.)

The purpose of this thread is to point out that a war on 'terrorism' is completely bogus on its face and just an excuse to go around killing people for fun and profit. It's what results when rich boys are put in power, play with their soldiers. The chickenhawks we have in the White House are a disgrace, but the cowards I was referring to was those who seem to want to shove real dissent under the rug. See my post about Liberty which has been relegated to the 'sewer'. That's cowardly on a grand scale, I'm afraid.

Back to this thread, another point is that we shouldn't be condemning them for resorting to terrorism in the face of superior forces and technology. In fact, if we were ever faced with fighting a superior force, are you telling me WE wouldn't resort to terrorism?? Heck, we've resorted to terrorism against puny third-world opposition already. What could be more terroristic than napalming an entire village, for example?
 
oldreliable67 said:
Pancho, what, exactly, are you trying to say with the above two statements? First, you say that, "we've decided to wage war with any of the poor who won't buckle under." Then you follow that by saying that only "Americans are dumb enough to go for that".

Just review, if you will, the record of who has attacked whom over the last two or three decades. In doing so, you will see immediately that those folks may be without tanks, planes, etc., but they have plenty of exposives and no shortage of ingenuity and have initiated attack after attack on not only us, but the western world in general, culminating in the attacks of 9/11. After which, we finally responded with appropriate military force.

"We've decided to wage war with any of the poor who won't buckle under. Only my fellow ill-educated Americans are dumb enough to go for that, hook, line and sinker."

What I mean is, only we Americans would approve of THAT kind of war. I really don't think anyone else would be dumb enough to buy the idea that we should be at war with 'terrorism'. Well, maybe the British.

As to reviewing the 'record' even in a one-sided way (from our point of view) I think if you look you'll find that much of this Middle Eastern animosity started when we decided to overthrow Mossadegh in Iran, their duly elected Prime Minister. That was an act of war, that we felt benefitted us, but that we undertook in a clandestine fashion (for reasons of wanting to avoid blame, perhaps).

As to their ingenuity, etc. I don't doubt it. But what YOU don't seem to realize is that there are those on our side THANKING GOD for the Insurgents and Al Qaeda. You're on a treadmill and don't seem to know it. Do you feel an overwhelming desire to eat some CHEESE? You will. It's called working for the rich.
 
It's what results when rich boys are put in power, play with their soldiers.

or when good ole boys from AR are allowed to do it in Somalia.

Back to this thread, another point is that we shouldn't be condemning them for resorting to terrorism in the face of superior forces and technology

there is no excuse for intentionally targeting women and children. I wonder....why is it when AMerica ACCIDENTALLY kills women and children in military strikes against enemy targets, she is CRUCIFIED, but when TERRORISTS INTENTIONALLY do it, they get a pass from people like you because they are so down trodden and outnumbered?

Heck, we've resorted to terrorism against puny third-world opposition already. What could be more terroristic than napalming an entire village, for example?

too bad you arent as quick to condemn modern day Islamic terrorists as you are to condemn America.

but the cowards I was referring to was those who seem to want to shove real dissent under the rug.

IMO, dissent does not involve making excuses for the people that killed 3000 civilians on 9-11

the irony is almost too much. refering to some as cowards, while making excuses for they biggest cowards on the planet.....terrorists.
 
But what YOU don't seem to realize is that there are those on our side THANKING GOD for the Insurgents and Al Qaeda.

As a survivor of the WTC attacks in '93 and '01, I find that very disappointing, but knowing that our democracy values the opinions of all, I can only point out to them that if they were living in the world envisioned by those same terrorists, they would certainly be stoned, or worse, for voicing opinions contrary to the mullahs interpretation of the Quran. I can only question their sanity.

You're on a treadmill and don't seem to know it. Do you feel an overwhelming desire to eat some CHEESE? You will. It's called working for the rich.

A little class warfare? Or maybe its class resentment bubbling up? Thats usually a disguised form of envy. You seem to feel the frustrations of an under-achiever, looking to place the blame for your lot in life anywhere except where it belongs.

Look,you want to get personal with your insults? If so, we can play by DP rules and take this to the Basement, where I can respond appropriately. How 'bout it?

Pancho Angry said:
Only my fellow ill-educated Americans are dumb enough

Since you seem to be pretty free with the insults, please notice that in your statement above, you admit to being among the group of Americans that are ill-educated. So far, your posts confirm that statement pretty convincingly.
 
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