The the Pope Really Represent God? Is He Really Infallible?

[danarhea]

Know a person not by his words, but by his works.

I refer you to this article in which Pope Benedict, while still a Cardinal, criminally covered up sexual abuse of children by Priests in the Catholic Church. Some of the methods used were absolutely appalling. Church officials told the victims that, if they talked, they would be excommunicated and would spend eternity in Hell. The Church kept slush funds, from which they bribed the families of victims in order to keep them quiet. Church officials were instructed to hold back evidence of criminal wrongdoing until the statutes of limitations ran out on those crimes.

What was Cardinal Ratzinger's involvement in this? He is the one who introduced Exclusive Competence, the rule that ALL incidents of pedophilia be handled only by Rome itself, which did much of the covering up of the incidents.

And Father Tom Doyle, a Vatican lawyer until he was sacked for criticising the church's handling of child abuse claims, says: "What you have here is an explicit written policy to cover up cases of child sexual abuse by the clergy and to punish those who would call attention to these crimes by the churchmen.

Is the Pope a man of God? Is the Catholic Church the way to eternal salvation? In both cases, I would say a big, resounding NO. The Catholic Church is the Mafia of sex crimes against children. As the Bible says, "A wolf, in sheep's clothing".

Article is here.

 

[jfuh]

Know a person not by his words, but by his works.

I refer you to this article in which Pope Benedict, while still a Cardinal, criminally covered up sexual abuse of children by Priests in the Catholic Church. Some of the methods used were absolutely appalling. Church officials told the victims that, if they talked, they would be excommunicated and would spend eternity in Hell. The Church kept slush funds, from which they bribed the families of victims in order to keep them quiet. Church officials were instructed to hold back evidence of criminal wrongdoing until the statutes of limitations ran out on those crimes.

What was Cardinal Ratzinger's involvement in this? He is the one who introduced Exclusive Competence, the rule that ALL incidents of pedophilia be handled only by Rome itself, which did much of the covering up of the incidents.

Is the Pope a man of God? Is the Catholic Church the way to eternal salvation? In both cases, I would say a big, resounding NO. The Catholic Church is the Mafia of sex crimes against children. As the Bible says, "A wolf, in sheep's clothing".

Article is here.

Yet is the Catholic church facing any punishment from the government as the Texas Polygamy "church" is? No, nothing at all.
Bear Stearns tanks and the feds bail them out.
The moral of the story? You become large enough and powerful enough, the law is no longer applicable to you.

 

[new coup for you]

Don't forget their lock step support of Franco, Mussolini and any number of South American strong-men.

 

[jallman]

Know a person not by his words, but by his works.

I refer you to this article in which Pope Benedict, while still a Cardinal, criminally covered up sexual abuse of children by Priests in the Catholic Church. Some of the methods used were absolutely appalling. Church officials told the victims that, if they talked, they would be excommunicated and would spend eternity in Hell. The Church kept slush funds, from which they bribed the families of victims in order to keep them quiet. Church officials were instructed to hold back evidence of criminal wrongdoing until the statutes of limitations ran out on those crimes.

What was Cardinal Ratzinger's involvement in this? He is the one who introduced Exclusive Competence, the rule that ALL incidents of pedophilia be handled only by Rome itself, which did much of the covering up of the incidents.

Is the Pope a man of God? Is the Catholic Church the way to eternal salvation? In both cases, I would say a big, resounding NO. The Catholic Church is the Mafia of sex crimes against children. As the Bible says, "A wolf, in sheep's clothing".

Article is here.

Yes, the Pope is infallible and the representative of God on Earth. However, the only source I have for that is the Church and the Pope. :mrgreen:

 

[SFLRN]

The Pope wasn't even supposed to have the kind of power he currently enjoys. Yet it is doubtful that there would be a pope really set on cutting out the bureaucracy in the Church, but one can hope. It is another good example of where concentrated power creates poor outcomes.

 

[Mach]

It is another good example of where concentrated power creates poor outcomes.

I really believe that's important as well.

I wonder how much anti-religious sentiment would exist if organized religion was less about power/politics and more about simple worship/service. Lots of diverse, free, tax-exempt religions, really this seems benign.

But large, power-hungry, political, tax-exempt, organizations that gain and use political power and cultural power, are intoleran of any dissent, similar to a government or other political party...doesn't seem to keep religion seperate from government IMO. And we're back to cheating the system and bad things happen as a result.

-Mach

 

[Gibberish]

He's a man with a job. Nothing more nothing less.

 

[Hymns]

The Pope is not infallible, nor is any other man. I the Bible we are given examples of this by means of the 12 APOSTLES often making errors, denying Christ, etc. The purpose of this is to show us that all men have faults, and only Christ was perfect. If that is not convincing enough, just look throughout history. The Church, led by the Pope, has done some very naughty things. Whether it be in calling for Crusades, damning people for crimes not even mentioned in the Bible, or making itself the ruler of all Europe and becoming corrupt. The duty of the Pope is to be an example of how to be like Christ, and when he is not, it is at least an opportunity to examine ourselves to see what we are doing wrong.

(If it helps with context, I am a devout Roman Catholic)

 

[Hymns]

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"

~Romans 3:23

The Bible even says so.

 

[1069]

The Pope is not infallible, nor is any other man. I the Bible we are given examples of this by means of the 12 APOSTLES often making errors, denying Christ, etc. The purpose of this is to show us that all men have faults, and only Christ was perfect. If that is not convincing enough, just look throughout history. The Church, led by the Pope, has done some very naughty things. Whether it be in calling for Crusades, damning people for crimes not even mentioned in the Bible, or making itself the ruler of all Europe and becoming corrupt. The duty of the Pope is to be an example of how to be like Christ, and when he is not, it is at least an opportunity to examine ourselves to see what we are doing wrong.

(If it helps with context, I am a devout Roman Catholic)

How does the Pope's engaging in naughtiness present us with "an opportunity to examine ourselves and see what we're doing wrong"?
We didn't elect him. He's none of our doing.
And the rather global-scale "naughtiness" that a bigwig like the Pope has the opportunity to get up to has little to do with the small and ultimately irrelevant wrongs that the common folk are capable of.
There's not much correlation between the Pope's badness and our badness.
His is much more consequential.

 

[rsixing]

To add to the mix...

Papal Infallibility is: "a charism the pope "enjoys in virtue of his office, when, as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms his brethren in their faith (Luke 22:32), he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine of faith or morals. Therefore his definitions, of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church, are justly held irreformable, for they are pronounced with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, an assistance promised to him in blessed Peter."

Additionally: "Infallibility is not the absence of sin."

 

[SFLRN]

To add to the mix...

Papal Infallibility is: "a charism the pope "enjoys in virtue of his office, when, as the supreme shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms his brethren in their faith (Luke 22:32), he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine of faith or morals. Therefore his definitions, of themselves, and not from the consent of the Church, are justly held irreformable, for they are pronounced with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, an assistance promised to him in blessed Peter."

Additionally: "Infallibility is not the absence of sin."

Somehow imperfect humans can espouse perfect theology, but that apparently is only guaranteed after the Vatican's bureaucracy appoints a man to the position. This flavor for absolutism is killing the Church.

 

[Hymns]

How does the Pope's engaging in naughtiness present us with "an opportunity to examine ourselves and see what we're doing wrong"?
We didn't elect him. He's none of our doing.
And the rather global-scale "naughtiness" that a bigwig like the Pope has the opportunity to get up to has little to do with the small and ultimately irrelevant wrongs that the common folk are capable of.
There's not much correlation between the Pope's badness and our badness.
His is much more consequential.

When you see someone as high and mighty as the Pope sin, it helps you realize that everyone, including yourself, has sinned as well, and can then take steps to fix it. (I wasn't able to phrase it right in the way i wanted to, sorry)

And it will often be the same wrong that the Pope commits and what normal people commit, just with smaller repurcussions. And if you think about it, all sin is basically the same, it just takes different forms.

 

[Apostle13]

Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
Does this scripture nullify Catholicism/the priesthood..?

 

[Hymns]

Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.
Does this scripture nullify Catholicism/the priesthood..?

No, just what they're called...that always kinda bugged me, since it says SPECIFICALLY in the Bible "don't do this", and we do it anyways.