- Joined
- Oct 15, 2020
- Messages
- 37,056
- Reaction score
- 18,261
- Location
- Greater Boston Area
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Conservative
The legal immigrant or citizen that would have had that job, the competing businesses who are not cheating by using illegal, low cost labor, and every other legal worker in the country who is not receiving tax-free wages.Suppose an immigrant crosses the border from Canada into the US. He gets a job sweeping floors and cleaning up at a local factory, and he works off the books.
Specifically, who is being harmed by his actions?
No, it's your obsession with Trump that causes you to say foolish things.It's not my obsession that causes Trump supporters to give him a pass for his charity and university frauds.
The legal immigrant or citizen that would have had that job,
the competing businesses who are not cheating by using illegal, low cost labor, and every other legal worker in the country who is not receiving tax-free wages.
Other than that, no one.
We have more jobs than people in this country- now by a record number. The labor shortage is one of the big things hurting the economy right now. This is not a legitimate argument. Try something else.The legal immigrant or citizen that would have had that job, the competing businesses who are not cheating by using illegal, low cost labor, and every other legal worker in the country who is not receiving tax-free wages.
Other than that, no one.
Yes, it does. Where there's fair competition for the job, them's the breaks. But it's not fair when a person here legally loses out to someone who is going to work tax-free, and thus illegally. In short, the illegal immigrant and the employer are cheating the legal applicant out of a job.So when one person takes a job it automatically harms another person? If what you are saying is true, then the legal status of the worker is irrelevant.
Why yes. Sexual tension can cause serious health issues. I've been telling Mrs. Morton that for years.Consider the same idea in a different context. Suppose the very beautiful Tina decides to date Bob. All of the other men who wanted to date Tina are pissed off, but were they actually harmed by her decision to date Bob?
No, see above. A job does not belong to someone who is breaking the law to acquire that job.A job belongs to the person who offers it. If employer Tina chooses to hire Bob, that's too bad for the other people who wanted to work for Tina, but they have not been harmed by either Tina or Bob.
Yes, when one business illegally avoids labor costs it creates an unfair advantage to competitors that are operating by the rules. Do you really not see that?Ah, the old "misery loves company" argument. If my business is being hammered by taxes and regulation, and your business finds a way around those burdens, then you are harming me (somehow).
And when the next recession arrives, then what?We have more jobs than people in this country- now by a record number. The labor shortage is one of the big things hurting the economy right now. This is not a legitimate argument. Try something else.
There are now a record 5 million more job openings than unemployed people in the U.S.
There were 11.27 million openings in the month, which left a record 5 million more openings than available workers.www.cnbc.com
And when the next recession arrives, then what?
If that's true, then we should drastically raise minimum wage laws and reap the benefits. Agreed?
Some are, some are criminals. All are entering the country illegally. If the nation, democrats or republicans are unhappy with immigration law they should change it, not ignore it. Democrats have had at least 2 opportunities to change immigration law and they didn't touch it. Illegal immigration should not be tolerated, fix it. Change the rules to allow guest workers, or shorten the period for becoming a US citizen. Do something besides ignore the massive problem on the southern border.These people are unbelievably hard working and, frankly, willing to do jobs that the vast majority of native born Americans simply won't do. When paid on the books they pay their taxes and here's a newsflash - - their involvement in crime of any sort is very substantially lower than that of native born American citizens.
So can someone remind me why we get our panties in an uproar over their presence in our country?
View attachment 67416486
I see that your statement of fact has angered the virue signallers.Don't know why you're so upset. I said I understand. We're going to count only some lawbreaking but not all lawbreaking. Yes, I think that's an excellent way of showing that law breakers don't always break laws.
Many (if not most) states have already done so. The prevailing wages for most construction and service jobs are already above the MW.
The economic benefit of higher wages is increased consumer demand.
Yes, it does. Where there's fair competition for the job, them's the breaks.
But it's not fair when a person here legally loses out to someone who is going to work tax-free, and thus illegally. In short, the illegal immigrant and the employer are cheating the legal applicant out of a job.
Why yes. Sexual tension can cause serious health issues. I've been telling Mrs. Morton that for years.
The hell it isn't. Government's principal role in any market is to maintain the fairness of that market. The market participant that breaks the law by hiring untaxed employees, and thus lowering his costs, is cheating and should be held to account.First of all, the concept of fairness is not defined by government law. If you disagree, I'd be happy to provide an endless stream of examples, starting with the trial of Jesus and working forward time-wise from there.
No, just trying to lighten things up a bit. We usually agree on things.While that did make me laugh, you are evading the issue.
You've stretched this analogy beyond any relevance to the topic a hand. This is not that complex. One company plays by the rules (i.e. the law). Another does not. Either you think that is fair or you do not. Which is it?Imagine that Tina is white and Bob is black, and they are living in the American south at a time when anti-miscegenation laws are in place and enforced.
Under these circumstances, would you want Tina to be punished for illegally choosing Bob to date instead of a white man? After all, it's not "fair" to the white guys, since Tina and Bob's relationship is illegal.
Yes, governments do all kinds of things, but that doesn't mean those things result in a net benefit.
You wrote:
If this is what you believe, do you support drastically raising the minimum wage in order to reap the benefit of increased consumer demand?
A simple yes or no will suffice.
taxes they instead have to charge to the middle class to sustain the cost of living for more and more illegal immigrants who concurrently get paid low illegal wages (for a citizen)The other law breaking the open borders crowd likes to ignore concerns work. These folks will tell you how valuable illegals are to the community as they "do work that most other people don't want to do." Well, if they're working and here illegally, they are most certainly working under the table and not paying taxes. That's a felony, so we're not just talking about ignoring immigration law violations.
But yes, so long as we ignore the laws illegal immigrants break, they don't break many laws at all.
Your assertion that having a constant flow of low skilled/educated immigrant (legal or not) labor is good (better?) for economy is BS.
After all, their US born offspring gain instant citizenship and qualify for all manner of “safety net” assistance.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?