• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The shutdown may have been for nothing

lwf said:




Learn from other's mistakes. Self isolate.

And never listen to cartoon skunks on the internet.
Click to expand...

which is why we mostly ignore what you say.
 
Lursa said:
So then no bureaucracies or bureaucrats fulfill their purposes?

Do you pay attention to how things get done in communities, states, nations? Does 'anything' work properly?
Click to expand...

I'm not against bureaucracies. They like government are necessary evils.

But I have quite a bit personal experience as to how bureaucrats and their bureaus operate, what is important to them, and how they think. Can you dig it?
 
Jay59 said:
You say that like it was something significant. How sad.
Click to expand...

What a stupid thing to say. If you're very unlucky the virus might get you and your family. Be sure to tell us how insignificant it is then, before you suffocate on your own pus, ok?
 
lwf said:
Better to be unemployed than responsible for the deaths of dozens of people.
Click to expand...

Which is worse? Having 30 (or maybe 40 or 50) million unemployed for 2-5 years living in poverty, or have a hundred thousand or so people who were not very healthy to begin with die?
 
marke said:
What is it with leftist democrat socialist propagandists? If you disagree with any aspect of the democrat assessment of the virus then you are under the influence of Russia? If you disagree with global warming hysteria then you are under the influence of Russia? If you favor the free market over communism you are under the influence of Russia?

I think they sounded smarter when they were claiming all these objections to democrat policies, prophecies and propaganda were because of racism, even if that also was a stupid thing to say.
Click to expand...

Hate is a drug. If hate were effective against Covid, a lot of folks here on DP would be immune.

Also, Liberals are incentivized to maximize the economic disruption since it will help them at the polls in November. Their best case is for a 2nd Great Depression to usher in a 2nd New Deal. It's their version of Make America Great Again.
 
Last edited:
I would want to understand the full context of the WHO statement being used as justification for opening up the world again. Perhaps it was merely a statement of status on research being done to see if an immunity can be achieved, maybe it was a statement more about what we do not know rather then what we do know for certain. One fact is immutable, the virus spreads quickly, it mutates easily and it kills mercilessly and painfully. So, you feel lucky?
 
CaughtInThe said:
are you a pro life Republican?
Click to expand...
Neither.

prometeus said:
What is even sadder is that someone like you can make such a callous asshole remark.
Click to expand...
Get a grip. That was a lament of a callous statement. Look below.

snakestretcher said:
What a stupid thing to say. If you're very unlucky the virus might get you and your family. Be sure to tell us how insignificant it is then, before you suffocate on your own pus, ok?
Click to expand...
This is callous, especially since I have been one of the front line.
 
Rawley said:
HOw do you explain Sweden?
Click to expand...

Sweden is not a success story. It has more people infected with COVID-19 than neighboring countries that have locked down and a much higher mortality rate. It is in the news not because it is unaffected by COVID-19, but because it isn't doing anything about it.
 
eman623 said:
Which is worse? Having 30 (or maybe 40 or 50) million unemployed for 2-5 years living in poverty, or have a hundred thousand or so people who were not very healthy to begin with die?
Click to expand...

We should do our best to avoid both. But at the end of the day, living in poverty is preferable to dying from COVID-19. Consider this: No matter how you feel about it, no matter your political opinions, if you are hospitalized with COVID-19, you WILL be quarantined away from your loved ones, and there would be exactly nothing that you could do about it. If you didn't recover, then you would just have to try to think about the last time you hugged your family since you would never get to do so again, and you would die holding the gloved hand of a doctor while your family watched from an iPad.
 
eman623 said:
Which is worse? Having 30 (or maybe 40 or 50) million unemployed for 2-5 years living in poverty, or have a hundred thousand or so people who were not very healthy to begin with die?
Click to expand...

Are you pro life?

Do you think 30 million more Americans are gonna be living in poverty for 2 to 5 years?
 
lwf said:
We should do our best to avoid both. But at the end of the day, living in poverty is preferable to dying from COVID-19. Consider this: No matter how you feel about it, no matter your political opinions, if you are hospitalized with COVID-19, you WILL be quarantined away from your loved ones, and there would be exactly nothing that you could do about it. If you didn't recover, then you would just have to try to think about the last time you hugged your family since you would never get to do so again, and you would die holding the gloved hand of a doctor while your family watched from an iPad.
Click to expand...

think about how many (formerly) pro life folks we are arguing with.
 
lwf said:
We should do our best to avoid both. But at the end of the day, living in poverty is preferable to dying from COVID-19. Consider this: No matter how you feel about it, no matter your political opinions, if you are hospitalized with COVID-19, you WILL be quarantined away from your loved ones, and there would be exactly nothing that you could do about it. If you didn't recover, then you would just have to try to think about the last time you hugged your family since you would never get to do so again, and you would die holding the gloved hand of a doctor while your family watched from an iPad.
Click to expand...

The fact that you are trying to make this about me tells me your argument is weak and an appeal to emption.

Yes, living in poverty is indeed worse than dying from the disease. But dying from poverty (which studies have show lowers life expectancy by 5-10 years) is worse than getting Covid-19 and then recovering.

Dying is worse than living. You may quote me on that. ;)

How many people will die prematurely from a 2nd Great Depression with 25% unemployment (that's 40 million Americans) and wisespread misery? More than the projected 100K that will die from Covid? Very likely.

I say we open up some parts of the economy and have a few more deaths from Covid and an lot less deaths from poverty.
 
CaughtInThe said:
Are you pro life?

Do you think 30 million more Americans are gonna be living in poverty for 2 to 5 years?
Click to expand...

You have the weird need to pigeonhole me. I could tell you I think most abortions should be legal, but you'll just believe whatever you want to.

I'm not a real person to you. I'm just this image you built up in your mind that you joust with, like Don Quixote and the windmill.
 
eman623 said:
The fact that you are trying to make this about me tells me your argument is weak and an appeal to emption.

Yes, living in poverty is indeed worse than dying from the disease. But dying from poverty (which studies have show lowers life expectancy by 5-10 years) is worse than getting Covid-19 and then recovering.

Dying is worse than living. You may quote me on that. ;)

How many people will die prematurely from a 2nd Great Depression with 25% unemployment (that's 40 million Americans) and wisespread misery? More than the projected 100K that will die from Covid? Very likely.

I say we open up some parts of the economy and have a few more deaths from Covid and an lot less deaths from poverty.
Click to expand...

This is fair. I don't mean to imply that the economy needs to be shuttered indefinitely until there are no more cases of COVID-19 in existence. There will come a time to reopen the economy and balance the economic damage with the public health damage. What we don't want to do is to simply give up on trying to control the public health damage since "everyone is just going to get it anyway. Thin the herd." I'm not saying you are making this argument, but a disturbing number of people are. The time to reopen the economy is when we have the infection rate under control, testing available, and the public health experts deem that the influx of patients will be stable enough for our current health services to handle.
 
lwf said:
Sweden is not a success story. It has more people infected with COVID-19 than neighboring countries that have locked down and a much higher mortality rate. It is in the news not because it is unaffected by COVID-19, but because it isn't doing anything about it.
Click to expand...

They are are in the middle of the pack wrt to mortality, and they haven't shut everything down. When their neighbors start opening back up, like us, their mortality rates will increase.
 
Rawley said:
They are are in the middle of the pack wrt to mortality, and they haven't shut everything down. When their neighbors start opening back up, like us, their mortality rates will increase.
Click to expand...

By what mechanism is this possible? How do you think quarantine increases mortality rates?
 
lwf said:
This is fair. I don't mean to imply that the economy needs to be shuttered indefinitely until there are no more cases of COVID-19 in existence. There will come a time to reopen the economy and balance the economic damage with the public health damage. What we don't want to do is to simply give up on trying to control the public health damage since "everyone is just going to get it anyway. Thin the herd." I'm not saying you are making this argument, but a disturbing number of people are. The time to reopen the economy is when we have the infection rate under control, testing available, and the public health experts deem that the influx of patients will be stable enough for our current health services to handle.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I think we share the same goal, to minimize the negative effects both on the personal and the macroeconomic scale.

I think there are a lot of shops that could be reopened right now. Probably never should have been closed in the first place. And the restrictions on people visiting parks is just ridiculous. OTOH, bars, concerts, sporting events, anything where large numbers gather in close quarters will need to stay closed.
 
prometeus said:
There is no ignorance at play at all. Your post was a callous asshole remark.
Click to expand...
Saying the remark was callous is where you show your ignorance. So, you are disproven by your own statement. Congratulations.
 
The shutdown was never for the sake of developing immunity. In fact, it was for just the opposite reason, it was to flatten the curve of the exponential rate of infection so medical systems would not get overwhelmed. If the strategy had been to gain a herd like immunity, we would not have sheltered in place. It's apparent your grasp of this situation is less than tentative. The blame is placed at the feet of Trump, he had ample early warnings and he blew them off because he could not have cared less about the U.S. He is so mentally lazy he couldn't have cared less about protecting his wonderful economy. Stating the shutdown is worthless because we failed to build herd immunity is stating a fact totally incorrectly and demonstrating zero understanding of what this shutdown has been about. Its really been about Trump acting late, and showing mortally flawed, murderously flawed judgement. Since we live in a democracy, its about the fatally flawed judgement of the vermin that elected him, as well!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom