The shutdown may have been for nothing

[eman623]

you claim you didn't vote for him and immediately use the TDS thing.

hahahahaha

It's the truth, just as your TDS is undeniable. Trump has zero to do with this thread but you are unable to think about anything except how it relates to the 45th president.

I voted for Evan McMullen in 2016. I will probably vote for Bill Weld in 2020. Because I'm a conservative and Trump is not.

Now can we get back to the thread topic?

 

[Fledermaus]

probably because he defunded the WHO thats why they cant find "any evidence"
Trump halts funding to World Health Organization - POLITICO
Trump halts funding to World Health Organization

"Trump claims his dangerous disinfectant claims were meant 'sarcastically', as US coronavirus death toll passes 50,000"

You know WHO stands for WORLD Health Organization.....

 

[Robertinfremont]

This was taken into account when the decision was made to shelter in place. The ruthless calculus is: The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. The deaths and suffering that may result from an economic depression were judged to be preferable to the deaths and suffering that would have resulted if we had done nothing.

Doing nothing would have overwhelmed the healthcare system, caused panic, and resulted in an even worse worldwide economic depression, not to mention the millions of deaths that would have resulted. By managing a crisis instead of picking our noses and watching it unfold on T.V., you can choose your battles to avoid the worst consequences. A temporary economic recession is a better outcome than allowing a deadly pandemic to spread unhindered through the entire population.

I wish that was the truth. Seriously since it makes a good story. Why don't you accept that Governors over r eached?

Not every Governor, but many of them. Here in Idaho we are shut down despite a very low case load of CV19 patients and very few died so far.

Potential patients refuse to go to the doctor fearing it will be there they contact the virus. What better place to catch a disease than at the doctors office?

 

[BlueTex]

In other words, the guy from the government blew off the doctors on the front lines.

WTF? They own urgent care centers... When the hell did urgent care DO's become the "front lines"?

 

[Lord of Planar]

The national shutdown, tens of millions unemployed, trillions lost and spent and a nation terrorized all has been for nothing - other than making the richest people and corporations on earth richer faster than ever.

The WHO now says having had covid-19 does NOT protect a person from being reinfected.

[h=1]WHO says no evidence shows that having coronavirus prevents a second infection[/h][FONT="]"There is no evidence yet that people who have had Covid-19 will not get a second infection," WHO said in a [URL="https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19"]scientific brief[/URL] published Friday. It cautions against governments that are considering issuing so-called "immunity passports" to people who have had Covid-19, assuming they are safe to resume normal life.

WHO says no evidence of Covid-19 immunity from antibodies - CNN

If people can be re-infected then no immunity has been built up, there is no herd immunity possible, and the shutdown has been totally worthless other than extremely harmful to most people - while making astronomical extra profits for the richest people and corporations on earth - making it even far worse than just a hoax. [/FONT]

So it's like a normal cold or flu in that you can get it over and over.

Go figure...

But yes... This shutdown would be for nothing.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Even if this is true, the shutdown is still saving lives by the thousands. Reducing the rate of infection and spreading it out over a longer period of time prevents hospitals from becoming overwhelmed, which not only saves the lives of COVID-19 victims, but it could save your life if your appendix ruptured and there were no available doctors that could treat you.

Would have us remain in this shutdown state forever...

 

[washunut]

This was taken into account when the decision was made to shelter in place. The ruthless calculus is: The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. The deaths and suffering that may result from an economic depression were judged to be preferable to the deaths and suffering that would have resulted if we had done nothing.

Doing nothing would have overwhelmed the healthcare system, caused panic, and resulted in an even worse worldwide economic depression, not to mention the millions of deaths that would have resulted. By managing a crisis instead of picking our noses and watching it unfold on T.V., you can choose your battles to avoid the worst consequences. A temporary economic recession is a better outcome than allowing a deadly pandemic to spread unhindered through the entire population.

First it is hard to understand how someone who self-defines as a Libertarian can advocate for government controlled lock-downs.

That being said I would like to know more about the thinking and assumptions regarding the health and economic benefits of this shutdown and how long it should go on.

If for example the pro-shutdown argument was we are unprepared for a pandemic,need time to build up hospital space,testing equipment and start the path to a medicine. OK, how long do you need and what are the costs versus benefits. Problem is no one has explained fully the rationale. Not sure people believe much in what government officials tell us anymore but at least we would have a start point to debate with some wisdom.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

So it's like a normal cold or flu in that you can get it over and over.

Go figure...

But yes... This shutdown would be for nothing.

The flu and cold are actually dozens of different virus's that mutate and change regularly which is the main reason we can get them over and over again

 

[Lord of Planar]

Totally false. No hospitals came anywhere close to being overwhelmed. Rather, there were mostly empty beds because hospitals refused to accept most other people - killing people with medical issues by the thousands.

I hadn't talked to one of my sisters in a while until last night. She's in the medical profession, and she calls this a joke, and worse yet, babies who are in incubators cannot have visits by their parents.

 

[TheDoctorWasIn]

The national shutdown, tens of millions unemployed, trillions lost and spent and a nation terrorized all has been for nothing - other than making the richest people and corporations on earth richer faster than ever.

The WHO now says having had covid-19 does NOT protect a person from being reinfected.

[h=1]WHO says no evidence shows that having coronavirus prevents a second infection[/h][FONT="]"There is no evidence yet that people who have had Covid-19 will not get a second infection," WHO said in a [URL="https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19"]scientific brief[/URL] published Friday. It cautions against governments that are considering issuing so-called "immunity passports" to people who have had Covid-19, assuming they are safe to resume normal life.

WHO says no evidence of Covid-19 immunity from antibodies - CNN

If people can be re-infected then no immunity has been built up, there is no herd immunity possible, and the shutdown has been totally worthless other than extremely harmful to most people - while making astronomical extra profits for the richest people and corporations on earth - making it even far worse than just a hoax. [/FONT]

The purpose of the shutdown is not to develop a "herd immunity". You're getting your talking points mixed up - "herd immunity" is the rallying cry of the "re-openers".

 

[Lord of Planar]

Learn from other's mistakes. Self isolate.

And never listen to cartoon skunks on the internet.

I'll bet they have a lower bed space per capita than most places...

 

[lwf]

Isn't Italy the place where everyone is in their 90s? Same place where everyone STOPPED dying from anything BUT COVID-19? Perhaps because they needed some relief money?

George Sickanopokous? LMAO

No one stopped dying from anything but COVID-19. The average death rate in general increased everywhere when the pandemic hit. This means that, in addition to the normally expected number deaths, there were additional deaths caused by COVID-19.

 

[lwf]

I wish that was the truth. Seriously since it makes a good story. Why don't you accept that Governors over r eached?

Not every Governor, but many of them. Here in Idaho we are shut down despite a very low case load of CV19 patients and very few died so far.

Potential patients refuse to go to the doctor fearing it will be there they contact the virus. What better place to catch a disease than at the doctors office?

Because a temporary quarantine during a dangerous pandemic with the potential to kill millions and wipe out the economy is not government overreach.

 

[Mycroft]

WTF? They own urgent care centers... When the hell did urgent care DO's become the "front lines"?

They did the majority of the testing in their area.

The testing is the front lines.

 

[lwf]

Would have us remain in this shutdown state forever...

Not forever. Only until the rate of infection stabilizes at a manageable number.

 

[Moonglow]

The national shutdown, tens of millions unemployed, trillions lost and spent and a nation terrorized all has been for nothing - other than making the richest people and corporations on earth richer faster than ever.

The WHO now says having had covid-19 does NOT protect a person from being reinfected.

[h=1]WHO says no evidence shows that having coronavirus prevents a second infection[/h][FONT="]"There is no evidence yet that people who have had Covid-19 will not get a second infection," WHO said in a [URL="https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19"]scientific brief[/URL] published Friday. It cautions against governments that are considering issuing so-called "immunity passports" to people who have had Covid-19, assuming they are safe to resume normal life.

WHO says no evidence of Covid-19 immunity from antibodies - CNN

If people can be re-infected then no immunity has been built up, there is no herd immunity possible, and the shutdown has been totally worthless other than extremely harmful to most people - while making astronomical extra profits for the richest people and corporations on earth - making it even far worse than just a hoax. [/FONT]

It was just one YUGE passion play, no?

 

[Lord of Planar]

Not forever. Only until the rate of infection stabilizes at a manageable number.

LOL... How long might that be if people can get infected over and over?

 

[joko104]

Because a temporary quarantine during a dangerous pandemic with the potential to kill millions and wipe out the economy is not government overreach.

How has the quarantine stopped anyone from dying? Do you think governors ordering putting people who have covid-19 into nursing homes saved lives? Forcing elderly and ill people - and everyone else - to go the the same grocery stores and WalMarts - ordering 90% of businesses closed - saves lives? Denying routine exams and deny medical care for anything not certain to be imminent death saves lives? Rather than urging people to have regular exams and to try to get ahead of major health issues before they become serious or uncurable to deny such medical exams and care saves lives?

Added now is if people can become reinfected then any quarantine is worthless because no immunity is occuring.

 

[TheDoctorWasIn]

How has the quarantine stopped anyone from dying? Do you think governors ordering putting people who have covid-19 into nursing homes saved lives? Forcing elderly and ill people - and everyone else - to go the the same grocery stores and WalMarts - ordering 90% of businesses closed - saves lives? Denying routine exams and deny medical care for anything not certain to be imminent death saves lives? Rather than urging people to have regular exams and to try to get ahead of major health issues before they become serious or uncurable to deny such medical exams and care saves lives?

Added now is if people can become reinfected then any quarantine is worthless because no immunity is occuring.

The purpose of quarantine is not to develop immunity - it's the opposite. The purpose of the quarantine is to minimize infections.

 

[Lord of Planar]

The purpose of quarantine is not to develop immunity - it's the opposite. The purpose of the quarantine is to minimize infections.

And if there is no immunity, are we going to stay in this state of shutdowns forever?

 

[lwf]

First it is hard to understand how someone who self-defines as a Libertarian can advocate for government controlled lock-downs.

That being said I would like to know more about the thinking and assumptions regarding the health and economic benefits of this shutdown and how long it should go on.

If for example the pro-shutdown argument was we are unprepared for a pandemic,need time to build up hospital space,testing equipment and start the path to a medicine. OK, how long do you need and what are the costs versus benefits. Problem is no one has explained fully the rationale. Not sure people believe much in what government officials tell us anymore but at least we would have a start point to debate with some wisdom.

Most non-libertarians would describe me as a libertarian. Most libertarians would put me left of the average libertarian. I am very much against a government imposed lock down in every situation except a deadly global pandemic. (Or an invasion I suppose.) That is one of those relatively few instances where a centralized government taking command works better than the free market.

The goal of the shut down (at this point anyway) is to stabilize the infection rate so as not to overwhelm the healthcare system. If this can be done with gradual and tentative opening up of businesses and social distancing, then I am all for it. Best case scenario, we can all return to work and all businesses can open up and the infection rate remains stable.

What we DON'T want to happen, however, is to have this gradual opening of the economy result in a spike in the infection rate. This will lead to a second wave of infections that can only be brought back to a manageable level by a second complete economic shutdown, which will likely have to last longer than the first. This would be a disaster that would make the current economic situation look like a walk in the park.

It is STUPID to reopen the economy too early. It is SMART to err on the side of caution, even if it means spending a few more weeks at home that retrospect tells us was not needed.

 

[danielpalos]

The national shutdown, tens of millions unemployed, trillions lost and spent and a nation terrorized all has been for nothing - other than making the richest people and corporations on earth richer faster than ever.

The WHO now says having had covid-19 does NOT protect a person from being reinfected.

[h=1]WHO says no evidence shows that having coronavirus prevents a second infection[/h][FONT="]"There is no evidence yet that people who have had Covid-19 will not get a second infection," WHO said in a [URL="https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/immunity-passports-in-the-context-of-covid-19"]scientific brief[/URL] published Friday. It cautions against governments that are considering issuing so-called "immunity passports" to people who have had Covid-19, assuming they are safe to resume normal life.

WHO says no evidence of Covid-19 immunity from antibodies - CNN

If people can be re-infected then no immunity has been built up, there is no herd immunity possible, and the shutdown has been totally worthless other than extremely harmful to most people - while making astronomical extra profits for the richest people and corporations on earth - making it even far worse than just a hoax. [/FONT]

Too late; we already have the anecdotal evidence from Italy as to what could have happened and could potentially still happen here if we do not follow "pandemic protocols".

How do you explain some of the People being able to complain about mass graves in our first world economy?

 

[lwf]

I'll bet they have a lower bed space per capita than most places...

Still bad.

 

[Robertinfremont]

Because a temporary quarantine during a dangerous pandemic with the potential to kill millions and wipe out the economy is not government overreach.

Even during leprosy outbreaks, the lepers were quarantined, not entire cities or countries.

 

[Moonglow]

The shutdown may have been for nothing

But I got a check..