The Shocking Truth about Hell: Forget What You Know!

[redbeer]

I edited. I just read your explanation.


How do you know it won't be an eternal life of pain.............when the scripture says, it will be?

Look at Ezekiel 18: 20 for example:


(Eze 18:20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


The 'soul' that sinneth:

H5315
נֶפֶשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
Total KJV occurrences: 753


Shall 'die':

H4191
מוּת
mûth
mooth
A primitive root; to die (literally or figuratively); causatively to kill: - X at all, X crying, (be) dead (body, man, one), (put to, worthy of) death, destroy (-er), (cause to, be like to, must) die, kill, necro [-mancer], X must needs, slay, X surely, X very suddenly, X in [no] wise.
Total KJV occurrences: 839


The same as in the Garden of Eden, when God commanded them not to eat of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil.....you will die. God says, "you sin, you die"......it is man who says, 'you sin, you will not surely die, but live forever in agony and pain'. It basically comes down to whom you believe.

 

[tosca1]

Look at Ezekiel 18: 20 for example:


(Eze 18:20) The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.


The 'soul' that sinneth:
H5315

נֶפֶשׁ
nephesh
neh'-fesh
From H5314; properly a breathing creature, that is, animal or (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal, accommodated or figurative sense (bodily or mental): - any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, X dead (-ly), desire, X [dis-] contented, X fish, ghost, + greedy, he, heart (-y), (hath, X jeopardy of) life (X in jeopardy), lust, man, me, mind, mortality, one, own, person, pleasure, (her-, him-, my-, thy-) self, them (your) -selves, + slay, soul, + tablet, they, thing, (X she) will, X would have it.
Total KJV occurrences: 753


Shall 'die':

H4191
מוּת
mûth
mooth
A primitive root; to die (literally or figuratively); causatively to kill: - X at all, X crying, (be) dead (body, man, one), (put to, worthy of) death, destroy (-er), (cause to, be like to, must) die, kill, necro [-mancer], X must needs, slay, X surely, X very suddenly, X in [no] wise.
Total KJV occurrences: 839


The same as in the Garden of Eden, when God commanded them not to eat of the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil.....you will die.

That doesn't mean though that the soul shall literally die.

It refers to the "second death."




Revelation 21:8 explains the second death in the most detail: “The cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Three other places in Revelation also mention the second death.
The first is Revelation 2:11: “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death” (ESV).
In this verse, Jesus promises that believers will not experience the lake of fire (cf. 1 John 5:4). T
he second death is exclusively for those who have rejected Christ. It is not a place believers in Christ should fear.

What is the second death? | GotQuestions.org

What is the second death? What does the Book of Revelation mean when it refers to the second death?

www.gotquestions.org

God says, "you sin, you die"......it is man who says, 'you sin, you will not surely die, but live forever in agony and pain'. It basically comes down to whom you believe.

GOD says:


Revelation 20
10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were,
and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


Revelation 21
8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars,
their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”



The devil and false preachers say......................"it isn't true."

 

[redbeer]

That doesn't mean though that the soul shall literally die.

I'd rather side with God than the serpent.

It refers to the "second death."


Revelation 21:8 explains the second death in the most detail: “The cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

Three other places in Revelation also mention the second death.
The first is Revelation 2:11: “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death” (ESV).
In this verse, Jesus promises that believers will not experience the lake of fire (cf. 1 John 5:4). T
he second death is exclusively for those who have rejected Christ. It is not a place believers in Christ should fear.

What is the second death? | GotQuestions.org

What is the second death? What does the Book of Revelation mean when it refers to the second death?

www.gotquestions.org

You seem to have a theology in which nothing really ever dies. God says, the soul which sins will die.....man's ideologies say, the soul shall not surely die for we are immortal beings.

It makes no sense to call something, "the second death" when nobody really ever dies. The same with the 1st death we all go through, as if nothing ever dies. I think it's because the false doctrine of the "immortal soul", the realm of the dead are seen as places where people are actually alive and not dead, which has you confused and stretching scripture to make it fit.

"The second death" refers to the time of judgment and those not covered by the blood of Christ will be thrust into the Lake of Fire to where the 'wages of sin' will take effect for eternity......they will die a second time after being resurrected for judgment. These do not receive the gift of eternal life.

GOD says:


Revelation 20
10 and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were,
and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.


Revelation 21
8 But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars,
their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”



The devil and false preachers say......................"it isn't true."

Notice in chapter 20 where you quoted the verse. It speaks of the mark of the beast and those who did not receive the mark upon their foreheads. Look at the verse you quoted, the 10th verse.....the devil, the beast, and the false prophet. People with God's mark have only One, who is God......the deceived have 3 who are God, this devil, beast, and false prophet is literary writing to show the false trinity doctrine, the same as the mark itself, 666.....man created on the 6th day is but a beast, being the number 6 repeated three times, yet still one number.....more literary language describing the false trinity doctrine.

The Lake burns with fire and sulfur.....it destroys anything thrown into it, which is why it's called "the second death". The fire and the smoke could be eternal, but what's thrown into it is burnt up and gone, destroyed, dead, depleted......

 

[Daisy]

No need to be snarky about this request, either.

No need to waste my time either since Redbeer gave an accurate/thorough explanation...there are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see...Jeremiah points out how willful ignorance or denial can be a powerful obstacle to understanding, even more so than the physical inability to see...

“Hear this, you foolish and senseless people:
They have eyes but cannot see;
They have ears but cannot hear." Jeremiah 5:21

 

[tosca1]

No need to waste my time either

Same old line that comes from daisy.................as she turns to run away.

I kinda expected that.

since Redbeer gave an accurate/thorough explanation...

Which was soundly rebutted.
With support from the Scriptures.

there are none so blind as those who WILL NOT see...Jeremiah points out how willful ignorance or denial can be a powerful obstacle to understanding, even more so than the physical inability to see...

“Hear this, you foolish and senseless people:
They have eyes but cannot see;
They have ears but cannot hear." Jeremiah 5:21

Hahahaha - more like........................Jeremiah describes you to a T.


Here's what that verse says:



Jeremiah 5
21 Hear this, you foolish and senseless people,
who have eyes but do not see,
who have ears but do not hear:

22 Should you not fear me?” declares the Lord.
“Should you not tremble in my presence?

23 But these people have stubborn and rebellious hearts;
they have turned aside and gone away.

24 They do not say to themselves,
‘Let us fear the Lord our God,
who gives autumn and spring rains in season,
who assures us of the regular weeks of harvest.’





That's you!

You don't fear the Lord.......right?
In fact, you're preaching that He should not be feared!

How many times is it written that we should fear the Lord.
In fact, even you had cited a verse from the Bible................... fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge!


See how the Scriptures bites you back?

 

[Daisy]

Same old line that comes from daisy.................as she turns to run away.

I kinda expected that.







Which was soundly rebutted.
With support from the Scriptures.








Hahahaha - more like........................Jeremiah describes you to a T.

Keep on believing that...

 

[tosca1]

Keep on believing that...

Read JEREMIAH 5!
Ater all..............you're the one who brought it in!


It talks about you!


Tell me -

DO YOU FEAR THE LORD?


DO YOU BELIEVE WE SHOULD TREMBLE IN HIS PRESENCE?

 

[tosca1]

Keep on believing that...

Have you ever stopped for a moment to ponder on your own situation/position as a JW apologist?


Why is it........

You're the one who can't refute.
You can't contradict my arguments!
You're the one who can't defend your own argument.
You're the one who keeps running away from challenging questions.
Even atheists makes mincemeat out of you.......




Look how you gave Jeremiah 5...............and instead, it helped me


.......... and it turned on you!



If you say you preach GOD's Words...................why does the Bible prove you wrong?

 

[Daisy]

Irony is wasted on the stupid. - Oscar Wilde

 

[tosca1]

Irony is wasted on the stupid. - Oscar Wilde

Is that all you can say?



Don't forget...................it's the Bible which proves you wrong, all the time.
Who do you think Wilde will point his finger to................... for being stupid?

 

[redbeer]

What's it like literally believing God has made you an immortal soul where there's the option of ending up in an eternal Firehole of literal torture and pain to suffer forever and ever? How do you look at or even communicate with those whom you believe are consigned to such a place? How does it make you feel that God will do these horrific things to others, but not you?

What will it be like in the afterlife and you ponder about those you knew and loved, but didn't make it......thinking on the suffering, pain, torture, not a month or two, a year or two, a century or two, but forever and ever?.....how? Is God going to erase their memory so you will be oblivious or is this something you must deal with on your own?

Pondering on these legitimate questions, it all seems so incomprehensible after learning about the Christ of God, Jesus. It's like there are imposters in this world pretending to be God and Christ, teaching totally different gospels and many there be, which are deceived. I simply cannot understand, for the life of me, how people can see and have a God which is so bitter, hateful, and angry at His own creation.....and how He failed so miserably, both God and His Christ failed, so they had to create this literal place in which to burn people for an eternity......it's all so disgusting, it's unimaginable.

 

[tosca1]

I was reading Proverbs 30 this morning:




Proverbs 30

The words of Agur son of Jakeh. The oracle.

The man declares, I am weary, O God;
I am weary, O God, and worn out.

2 Surely I am too stupid to be a man.
I have not the understanding of a man.
3 I have not learned wisdom,
nor have I knowledge of the Holy One.


4 Who has ascended to heaven and come down?
Who has gathered the wind in his fists?
Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment?
Who has established all the ends of the earth?
What is his name, and what is his son's name?
Surely you know!



5 Every word of God proves true;
he is a shield to those who take refuge in him.

6 Do not add to his words,
lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar.

 

[tosca1]

Trying to turn hell contrary to the frightening images that GOD says about it...................is conforming to the current "feel-good" culture of today.
Thus..........even the FEAR OF THE LORD, is being swept under the rug.



FEAR OF THE LORD - is exactly what it is!

No sugar-coating it!



If you have not understood how fearing GOD is what about....................you should read what happened even to His chosen people, like Moses and his sister Miriam!
Moses was denied entrance to the Promised land. Miriam was struck with leprosy!

You want New Testament?
What about Ananias and Sapphira being struck dead for lying?


But what we see today - the Bible is being reconstructed to conform to the current culture.

 

[tosca1]

How is the fear of the Lord the beginning of wisdom?​

Fear of the Lord can be defined as “the continual awareness that our loving heavenly Father is watching and evaluating everything we think, say, and do” (Matthew 12:36; Psalm 139:2; Jeremiah 12:3).
As Jesus told each of the seven churches in Revelation 2—3, “I know your works.” Nothing escapes His attention.


In order to develop the fear of the Lord, we must recognize God for who He is.
We must glimpse with our spirits the power, might, beauty, and brilliance of the Lord God Almighty (Revelation 11:17; Hosea 12:5; Isaiah 6:1–5).
Those who fear the Lord have a continual awareness of Him, a deep reverence for Him, and sincere commitment to obey Him.


Proverbs 1:7 says, “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction.”
This verse gives us some added insight with its antithetical parallelism—there is a sharp contrast between the wise life and the foolish life.



A wise person fears/reverences/obeys the Lord; a fool despises God’s instruction and cannot be told what to do.
The wise person is wise because he has started at the starting place; the fool has no foundation on which to build wisdom.




The link between the fear of God and wisdom means we cannot possess wisdom if we recreate God in our own image.
Too many people want to “tame” God into a non-threatening nobody.
But, if we redefine the Lord as a god that makes us feel comfortable, a permissive “buddy” who exists simply to bless us and give us what we want, we will not fear Him in the way He deserves to be feared.



The Lord God Almighty is far greater than that, and the fear of the Lord begins when we see Him in His majesty and power (Revelation 4:11; Job 42:1–2)
The Lord shows Job (and us) a glimpse of His power in Job 38—41 when He describes His absolute sovereignty over everything.
When the reality of God’s true nature has caused us to fall down in worship, we are then in the right position to gain wisdom.
Wisdom is merely seeing life from God’s perspective and responding accordingly.



Wisdom is a priority, and we are told to seek it above all else (Proverbs 3:13; 16:16).
Proverbs is known as the wisdom book, and the entire second chapter gives a detailed explanation of the value of gaining wisdom.



Our respect for God’s majesty causes us to honor Him (Psalm 29:2).
Our gratitude for His mercy causes us to serve Him well (Psalm 2:11; 107:15).
And the understanding that our God of love is also a God of wrath inspires enough fear to help us stay away from evil (Romans 1:18; Proverbs 8:13).

How is the fear of the Lord the beginning of wisdom? | GotQuestions.org

How is the fear of the Lord the beginning of wisdom? How is gaining wisdom related to fearing the Lord?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[tosca1]

Fools, can't interpret and reconstruct the Bible to suit what they want, and make it consistent!
What they end up with is a "bible" that's marred with flaws.

 

[redbeer]

Trying to turn hell contrary to the frightening images that GOD says about it...................is conforming to the current "feel-good" culture of today.
Thus..........even the FEAR OF THE LORD, is being swept under the rug.



FEAR OF THE LORD - is exactly what it is!

No sugar-coating it!



If you have not understood how fearing GOD is what about....................you should read what happened even to His chosen people, like Moses and his sister Miriam!
Moses was denied entrance to the Promised land. Miriam was struck with leprosy!

You want New Testament?
What about Ananias and Sapphira being struck dead for lying?


But what we see today - the Bible is being reconstructed to conform to the current culture.

Nobody is attempting to sweep the fear of God under a rug, so please get off the soapbox. Problem for you, is the desire for others to fear an unrighteous God who has sadistic punishments that have never entered the heart or mind of God.

Believing you are immortal, there must be punishments that make Hitler look like an angel. After all, what's wrong with killing those who are doomed to suffer for an eternity. The history of this religious movement has left a trail behind that is anything but Christlike, in fact the direct opposite to what Jesus preached and taught.

Words have definitions and meanings and there are those who change these meanings to suit false doctrine. The word "hell" is one of these. In the original Hebrew and Greek, they meant nothing like the modern orthodox theologian's spew. Dante's hellfire image is pure BS, a lie of the utmost proportions, pagan religion mixed which has ruined the whole.

Even after coming to the knowledge of Christ, with his great teachings showing us the very character of his Father and God, they teach this nonsense and paint the Almighty God as a tyrant, who purposefully made us weak, knowing we are imperfect, into a God of judging other gods, since they believe they are immortal. Absolute zero, zilch, no way compatible to the Father and God of Jesus. Like oil and water, it is an imposter, false, another gospel altogether.

Follow Jesus, the man who asked His Father to forgive them while driving the nails into his wrists and feet, not these tyrants who love to see others suffer for an eternity......wake the heck up!

 

[tosca1]

Nobody is attempting to sweep the fear of God under a rug, so please get off the soapbox.

@Daisy


Lol - you're the who should get off your silly soapbox!
You have no clue what you're talking about.


From post #64, wrap your mind around this:



The link between the fear of God and wisdom means we cannot possess wisdom if we recreate God in our own image.


Too many people want to “tame” God into a non-threatening nobody.


But, if we redefine the Lord as a god that makes us feel comfortable, a permissive “buddy” who exists simply to bless us and give us what we want,
we will not fear Him in the way He deserves to be feared.

Problem for you, is the desire for others to fear an unrighteous God who has sadistic punishments

He had killed whole nations that included children!
He can strike a person dead on the spot - have whole families swallowed up by the earth............and yet, can be so patient with others (like Jonas).
Atheists call him a, "psychopath."

Base on your line of thinking, you must agree with atheists................... you're saying, GOD must be a psychopath.

that have never entered the heart or mind of God.

He told you?
You know what's in the heart and mind of GOD?

You're so full of nonsense!

 

[tosca1]

Isn't it quite plain and obvious........how we are given perfect examples on this thread?




Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.


Proverbs 18:2
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.





God had clearly given an instruction:


DO NOT ADD.


DO NOT REMOVE.




How is that so hard to understand?

 

[tosca1]

James 2:20-24
Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works; and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”—
and he was called a friend of God.
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.


Talk is cheap.



do not add.

do not remove.





O B E D I E N C E.

It comes with faith.

 

[bythoughts]

He had killed whole nations that included children!

Most parents who come home to find out that their kid has taken apart their laptop are going to be appalled.
But if the kid is a genius, maybe he is in the middle of fixing the laptop.

There is evil in this world, and all things in this world exist due to God. But is there evil in the next world? Will what has been erased remain erased?

It pleases me to think that the Rapture was a reference to the Armenian Genocide and the Shoah. And that every sweet little girl mercilessly slaughtered met the Lord in the air. And that every tear was and will be wiped away, past and future. And that there is a new world beside us, where the virtues people built up fighting against evil are still theirs to keep and cherish, and where all the joys they were denied by evil are theirs to have by right. But I don't think that it is one single Day from here to Heaven...

 

[Daisy]

In this age of an abundance of information ignorance is a choice...

 

[tosca1]

In this age of an abundance of information ignorance is a choice...

Abundance of information is detrimental if we don't know how to discern truth from lies.
We'd still be ignorant despite the abundance of information..................if we can't discern.

 

[Daisy]

Abundance of information is detrimental if we don't know how to discern truth from lies.
We'd still be ignorant despite the abundance of information..................if we can't discern.

Amen...read that again...

Abundance of information is detrimental if we don't know how to discern truth from lies.
We'd still be ignorant despite the abundance of information..................if we can't discern.