• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

The second biggest problem in our political system (related to the biggest)

Craig234

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Messages
59,945
Reaction score
30,611
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
People think that a politician decides how to vote based on their own opinions. They're largely wrong.

Rather, a politician decides who they will serve, and that determines their votes. Politics is arguably more than anything about which interests get more and which get less. Society has many groups, and politicians pick which to help.

When I say 'many groups', that's technically correct, but of course there's only one 'main' group that is dominant, the very wealthy.

So, a politicians decides, facing election, do they want to try to get votes by voting how they think voters will like? That means facing an opponent who is well financed by those wealthy interests. Or, do they support the wealthy interests to get the money for a strong advertising campaign to persuade voters instead - fool them?

It's an easy call for many politicians, and practically a required one for Republicans. And once politicians decide to support the big money interests and rely on the money to 'buy' voters with powerful ads promoting them and demonizing their opponent to win, it's a huge threat to democracy. Democracy is threatened and often defeated for those voters.

That second biggest problem is the power of that advertising industry, where money buys votes and buys politicians. The first biggest problem is related, because it's plutocracy - that small wealthy group having so much money that they can cause the second problem. And they've cemented the power to do it, by buying the Supreme Court to say they can. The only remedy seems to be taxing the rich to reduce the fuel they have for buying government.

Unfortunately, the idea of the 'rational informed voter' is mostly a myth. Focus-group tested advertising that tells voters what they want to hear from a candidate, shows them in positive pictures, with effective slogans, and smother their name so it's almost the only name in voters' heads, while even more effectively the opponent is made to look like a monster voters can't stand to vote for, is what really determines most elections I suspect.

And that means, money wins. It's why Republicans are in lock-step to suppress voting by Democrats as much as they can, it's all part of the same 'game'. As powerful as the advertising and money are, there are limits as there's a backlash to the results - $50 trillion shifted to the rich more than normal - and so they look for even more. But the corruption is essentially locked in. All voters hear from those politicians is 'spin', propaganda, talking points.

It's almost like herding cattle. Thousands of times, repeating things like 'stop socialism', keep the cattle herded, supporting the bought and paid for politician, feeling they are patriotic and defending the country by 'stopping the socialists', and countless more issues weaponized to get their votes, with a lot of money used to buy those votes. It's similar to the result in a dictatorship, with money replacing brutal secret police to secure power.
 
Last edited:
People think that a politician decides how to vote based on their own opinions. They're largely wrong.
IMO your OP premise is unfounded right out of the gate.

Never heard of such a thing and wouldnt consider that as true myself. At all.
 
People think that a politician decides how to vote based on their own opinions. They're largely wrong.

Rather, a politician decides who they will serve, and that determines their votes. Politics is arguably more than anything about which interests get more and which get less. Society has many groups, and politicians pick which to help.

When I say 'many groups', that's technically correct, but of course there's only one 'main' group that is dominant, the very wealthy.

So, a politicians decides, facing election, do they want to try to get votes by voting how they think voters will like? That means facing an opponent who is well financed by those wealthy interests. Or, do they support the wealthy interests to get the money for a strong advertising campaign to persuade voters instead - fool them?

It's an easy call for many politicians, and practically a required one for Republicans. And once politicians decide to support the big money interests and rely on the money to 'buy' voters with powerful ads promoting them and demonizing their opponent to win, it's a huge threat to democracy. Democracy is threatened and often defeated for those voters.

That second biggest problem is the power of that advertising industry, where money buys votes and buys politicians. The first biggest problem is related, because it's plutocracy - that small wealthy group having so much money that they can cause the second problem. And they've cemented the power to do it, by buying the Supreme Court to say they can. The only remedy seems to be taxing the rich to reduce the fuel they have for buying government.

Unfortunately, the idea of the 'rational informed voter' is mostly a myth. Focus-group tested advertising that tells voters what they want to hear from a candidate, shows them in positive pictures, with effective slogans, and smother their name so it's almost the only name in voters' heads, while even more effectively the opponent is made to look like a monster voters can't stand to vote for, is what really determines most elections I suspect.

And that means, money wins. It's why Republicans are in lock-step to suppress voting by Democrats as much as they can, it's all part of the same 'game'. As powerful as the advertising and money are, there are limits as there's a backlash to the results - $50 trillion shifted to the rich more than normal - and so they look for even more. But the corruption is essentially locked in. All voters hear from those politicians is 'spin', propaganda, talking points.

It's almost like herding cattle. Thousands of times, repeating things like 'stop socialism', keep the cattle herded, supporting the bought and paid for politician, feeling they are patriotic and defending the country by 'stopping the socialists', and countless more issues weaponized to get their votes, with a lot of money used to buy those votes. It's similar to the result in a dictatorship, with money replacing brutal secret police to secure power.
Wrong on both counts-----------------our #1 problem is lack of participation in the election process
 
Wrong on both counts-----------------our #1 problem is lack of participation in the election process
Not even close. What what would it solve for 100% to vote and elect trump? Nothing.
 
People think that a politician decides how to vote based on their own opinions. They're largely wrong.

Rather, a politician decides who they will serve, and that determines their votes. Politics is arguably more than anything about which interests get more and which get less. Society has many groups, and politicians pick which to help.

When I say 'many groups', that's technically correct, but of course there's only one 'main' group that is dominant, the very wealthy.

So, a politicians decides, facing election, do they want to try to get votes by voting how they think voters will like? That means facing an opponent who is well financed by those wealthy interests. Or, do they support the wealthy interests to get the money for a strong advertising campaign to persuade voters instead - fool them?

It's an easy call for many politicians, and practically a required one for Republicans. And once politicians decide to support the big money interests and rely on the money to 'buy' voters with powerful ads promoting them and demonizing their opponent to win, it's a huge threat to democracy. Democracy is threatened and often defeated for those voters.

That second biggest problem is the power of that advertising industry, where money buys votes and buys politicians. The first biggest problem is related, because it's plutocracy - that small wealthy group having so much money that they can cause the second problem. And they've cemented the power to do it, by buying the Supreme Court to say they can. The only remedy seems to be taxing the rich to reduce the fuel they have for buying government.

Unfortunately, the idea of the 'rational informed voter' is mostly a myth. Focus-group tested advertising that tells voters what they want to hear from a candidate, shows them in positive pictures, with effective slogans, and smother their name so it's almost the only name in voters' heads, while even more effectively the opponent is made to look like a monster voters can't stand to vote for, is what really determines most elections I suspect.

And that means, money wins. It's why Republicans are in lock-step to suppress voting by Democrats as much as they can, it's all part of the same 'game'. As powerful as the advertising and money are, there are limits as there's a backlash to the results - $50 trillion shifted to the rich more than normal - and so they look for even more. But the corruption is essentially locked in. All voters hear from those politicians is 'spin', propaganda, talking points.

It's almost like herding cattle. Thousands of times, repeating things like 'stop socialism', keep the cattle herded, supporting the bought and paid for politician, feeling they are patriotic and defending the country by 'stopping the socialists', and countless more issues weaponized to get their votes, with a lot of money used to buy those votes. It's similar to the result in a dictatorship, with money replacing brutal secret police to secure power.
Are you trying to explain why the "DEMORCAT" party told the Vast Majority of it's Members the go F.off they will be given Biden and not Bernie as they overwhelingly supported ? ....

See boys and girls ! That's call Fascism !
 

Attachments

  • BidenTrick.webp
    BidenTrick.webp
    55.6 KB · Views: 0
Then you have the will of the people, and THAT solves a LOT..................got you on this one my friend....

No, you don't, and you didn't. You have the will of the big funders of the massive money opinion manipulation system and a lack of democracy. You didn't understand the OP, no offense.
 
No, you don't, and you didn't. You have the will of the big funders of the massive money opinion manipulation system and a lack of democracy. You didn't understand the OP, no offense.
I have government studies degrees and I taught it. I understand, just disagree. You eliminate much of the influence of the "big funders" when/if all participate.
 
Are you trying to explain why the "DEMORCAT" party told the Vast Majority of it's Members the go F.off they will be given Biden and not Bernie as they overwhelingly supported ? ....

You should learn to spell Democratic Party. As a strong Bernie supporter, yes, the party helped Biden defeat Bernie, and not enough Democrats supported Bernie.

See boys and girls ! That's call Fascism !

No, that was not fascism. Look to the other party for that, but you won't, will you?
 
I have government studies degrees and I taught it. I understand, just disagree. You eliminate much of the influence of the "big funders" when/if all participate.

Saying you eliminate the effect of the propaganda machine if enough people vote is like the old business saying, 'we lose money on each unit but make it up in volume'. IMO, the non-voters are LESS informed than others and MORE susceptible to the propaganda. You have not solved the problem by more voters. Now, more voters is usually a good thing; but it's not even close to the big problem.
 
Saying you eliminate the effect of the propaganda machine if enough people vote is like the old business saying, 'we lose money on each unit but make it up in volume'. IMO, the non-voters are LESS informed than others and MORE susceptible to the propaganda. You have not solved the problem by more voters. Now, more voters is usually a good thing; but it's not even close to the big problem.
The old business saying is true and practical. I know from experience. Those who willingly participate are always susceptible---"twas always so and always thus shall be". But if few take part then the big money influencers win. Right now we have 50% of the people giving control over through non-participation. Three types of people are most likely to vote historically : the rich, the educated, the older.
 
The old business saying is true and practical. I know from experience. Those who willingly participate are always susceptible---"twas always so and always thus shall be". But if few take part then the big money influencers win. Right now we have 50% of the people giving control over through non-participation. Three types of people are most likely to vote historically : the rich, the educated, the older.

I'm concerned at your not appearing to be much familiar with the massive money/'consulting'/lobbying/media propaganda machine and how effective it is. Did you learn much about Cambridge Analytica and their claimed 5,000 data points per voter? That's just one small bit. And you're saying 'who cares'? If current non-voters votes a lot, they'd b targeted a lot more. Problem not solved.
 
Seems like a lot of words to try an explain why someone would vote in a diffrent way than the OP wishes
 
I'm concerned at your not appearing to be much familiar with the massive money/'consulting'/lobbying/media propaganda machine and how effective it is. Did you learn much about Cambridge Analytica and their claimed 5,000 data points per voter? That's just one small bit. And you're saying 'who cares'? If current non-voters votes a lot, they'd b targeted a lot more. Problem not solved.
Not saying "who cares". Would you prefer that few vote? The fewer that vote the easier it is to manipulate.
 
#1 problem: we have the best government money can buy
we need to eliminate it being for sale

problem #2: we have a parenting problem
kids need good guides to teach them how to be productive adults
too many of our parents are not up to that responsibility

solving problem #1 will help solve problem #2
 
Not saying "who cares". Would you prefer that few vote? The fewer that vote the easier it is to manipulate.

How honest of a question is it for you to ask if I prefer few vote, after I specifically said more voting is better, but that that is not the most important issue threatening democracy? You then ignored the answer I already posted about more voting.
 
Back
Top Bottom