The Robber Baron Myth

[13eastxpharoh]

A myth is a story that explains world and human experience and events that otherwise can’t be explained. The purpose of establishing a myth is to shape society and social behavior. When myths get established and adopted, they tend to be so strongly held that when anyone comes along and differs with and contradicts them they face the risk of being dismissed with no thought or consideration for the truth they may be telling.
Starting today I'm going to take the risk of such dismissal because it's so urgent and important to me that the myths I'm going to address(in separate threads) are deflated and the reality is recognized. So that way a correct perception of past and present can be examined for the sake of benefiting society.
Over the past nine decades there has been a drastic shift in the attitude and opinion of the public in relation to the role of individuals and governments in a society. The shift being from the belief in individual responsibility to a society in which the emphasis is on social responsibility and the government the protector of the individual.
In order for such a shift in public attitudes and opinions to occur, they largely have to be produced and reinforced by the development of myths about prior experience. I’m going to cover some of the myths which have caused the shift in attitude and opinion and are likely a part of your thinking if you’ve ever taken American history courses at any level.
The first Myth i'm going to confront is the robber baron myth. The myth that the 19th century was a time in which the rich became richer and the poor became poorer. The myth that it was a century of growing wealth inequality as a result of the free market system. That It was an era where rugged unrestrained individualism existed and as a consequence greedy monopoly capitalists exploited the working class and poor unmercifully.
That is the myth. So what is the reality? The reality is there is almost no other period in recorded human history which saw such improvement in the standard of living of the ordinary man and woman as the 19th and early 20th century did. That was a period when millions of people from all over the world streamed to America with nothing but the hope they could make a better life for themselves and their children and their children’s children. And they succeeded. Those of us in this forum are the heirs of that. We benefited by the virtue of freedom this country offered to our ancestors and by that virtue they were able to make a better life for themselves and us.
Do you suppose our ancestors came here to be oppressed and exploited unmercifully by greedy monopoly capitalists? No. If the myth were reality, then America would only have had an initial inflow of people who thought they were going to improve their living but ended up being worse off. They would not have been followed by their relatives, friends and fellow countrymen and women who were facing the same conditions in which they now knew could be improved in America and the continued inflow of immigrants seen wouldn’t have been sustained year after year.
This myth gets its appeal from the common fallacy that one person's gain is another person's loss. Which is a damning thought. While it is true many became wealthy during that time and robber barons exist. They still do today, They always have. People are people, majority have morals, few don’t, and the few who don't always seem to get more recognition, that is a part of the course of history unfortunately.
However, the moral of the story is that the same system which enabled a few to become extremely wealthy off their own ideas and innovations, was also the same system which provided the freedom and opportunities for millions of people to improve their lives and for very first time in many of their families history, presented the chance to become wealthy themselves. Everyone can benefit. The few who did become wealthy didn’t do so at the expense of others. But by developing revolutionary ideas which created those opportunities which didn’t exist for anyone before.
While it is true there are some people better off than others in America. When all is said and done, by and large even the poorest and most disadvantaged people in this country still have above the average standard of living of more than half the world’s population. Now this doesn’t mean we should be satisfied, we are a wealthier country and have and can be better, but we ought to have a sense of proportion when it comes to recognizing both the source and the problem.

 

[ataraxia]

A myth is a story that explains world and human experience and events that otherwise can’t be explained. The purpose of establishing a myth is to shape society and social behavior. When myths get established and adopted, they tend to be so strongly held that when anyone comes along and differs with and contradicts them they face the risk of being dismissed with no thought or consideration for the truth they may be telling.
Starting today I'm going to take the risk of such dismissal because it's so urgent and important to me that the myths I'm going to address(in separate threads) are deflated and the reality is recognized. So that way a correct perception of past and present can be examined for the sake of benefiting society.
Over the past nine decades there has been a drastic shift in the attitude and opinion of the public in relation to the role of individuals and governments in a society. The shift being from the belief in individual responsibility to a society in which the emphasis is on social responsibility and the government the protector of the individual.
In order for such a shift in public attitudes and opinions to occur, they largely have to be produced and reinforced by the development of myths about prior experience. I’m going to cover some of the myths which have caused the shift in attitude and opinion and are likely a part of your thinking if you’ve ever taken American history courses at any level.
The first Myth i'm going to confront is the robber baron myth. The myth that the 19th century was a time in which the rich became richer and the poor became poorer. The myth that it was a century of growing wealth inequality as a result of the free market system. That It was an era where rugged unrestrained individualism existed and as a consequence greedy monopoly capitalists exploited the working class and poor unmercifully.
That is the myth. So what is the reality? The reality is there is almost no other period in recorded human history which saw such improvement in the standard of living of the ordinary man and woman as the 19th and early 20th century did. That was a period when millions of people from all over the world streamed to America with nothing but the hope they could make a better life for themselves and their children and their children’s children. And they succeeded. Those of us in this forum are the heirs of that. We benefited by the virtue of freedom this country offered to our ancestors and by that virtue they were able to make a better life for themselves and us.
Do you suppose our ancestors came here to be oppressed and exploited unmercifully by greedy monopoly capitalists? No. If the myth were reality, then America would only have had an initial inflow of people who thought they were going to improve their living but ended up being worse off. They would not have been followed by their relatives, friends and fellow countrymen and women who were facing the same conditions in which they now knew could be improved in America and the continued inflow of immigrants seen wouldn’t have been sustained year after year.
This myth gets its appeal from the common fallacy that one person's gain is another person's loss. Which is a damning thought. While it is true many became wealthy during that time and robber barons exist. They still do today, They always have. People are people, majority have morals, few don’t, and the few who don't always seem to get more recognition, that is a part of the course of history unfortunately.
However, the moral of the story is that the same system which enabled a few to become extremely wealthy off their own ideas and innovations, was also the same system which provided the freedom and opportunities for millions of people to improve their lives and for very first time in many of their families history, presented the chance to become wealthy themselves. Everyone can benefit. The few who did become wealthy didn’t do so at the expense of others. But by developing revolutionary ideas which created those opportunities which didn’t exist for anyone before.
While it is true there are some people better off than others in America. When all is said and done, by and large even the poorest and most disadvantaged people in this country still have above the average standard of living of more than half the world’s population. Now this doesn’t mean we should be satisfied, we are a wealthier country and have and can be better, but we ought to have a sense of proportion when it comes to recognizing both the source and the problem.

The middle class did not arrive spontaneously. Exploitation of child labor was only getting worse, not better, prior to child, labor laws, and regulations.

I guess it comes down to asking whether we want to have a country with a middle class or not.

 

[Phys251]

A myth is a story that explains world and human experience and events that otherwise can’t be explained. The purpose of establishing a myth is to shape society and social behavior. When myths get established and adopted, they tend to be so strongly held that when anyone comes along and differs with and contradicts them they face the risk of being dismissed with no thought or consideration for the truth they may be telling.
Starting today I'm going to take the risk of such dismissal because it's so urgent and important to me that the myths I'm going to address(in separate threads) are deflated and the reality is recognized. So that way a correct perception of past and present can be examined for the sake of benefiting society.
Over the past nine decades there has been a drastic shift in the attitude and opinion of the public in relation to the role of individuals and governments in a society. The shift being from the belief in individual responsibility to a society in which the emphasis is on social responsibility and the government the protector of the individual.
In order for such a shift in public attitudes and opinions to occur, they largely have to be produced and reinforced by the development of myths about prior experience. I’m going to cover some of the myths which have caused the shift in attitude and opinion and are likely a part of your thinking if you’ve ever taken American history courses at any level.
The first Myth i'm going to confront is the robber baron myth. The myth that the 19th century was a time in which the rich became richer and the poor became poorer. The myth that it was a century of growing wealth inequality as a result of the free market system. That It was an era where rugged unrestrained individualism existed and as a consequence greedy monopoly capitalists exploited the working class and poor unmercifully.
That is the myth. So what is the reality? The reality is there is almost no other period in recorded human history which saw such improvement in the standard of living of the ordinary man and woman as the 19th and early 20th century did. That was a period when millions of people from all over the world streamed to America with nothing but the hope they could make a better life for themselves and their children and their children’s children. And they succeeded. Those of us in this forum are the heirs of that. We benefited by the virtue of freedom this country offered to our ancestors and by that virtue they were able to make a better life for themselves and us.
Do you suppose our ancestors came here to be oppressed and exploited unmercifully by greedy monopoly capitalists? No. If the myth were reality, then America would only have had an initial inflow of people who thought they were going to improve their living but ended up being worse off. They would not have been followed by their relatives, friends and fellow countrymen and women who were facing the same conditions in which they now knew could be improved in America and the continued inflow of immigrants seen wouldn’t have been sustained year after year.
This myth gets its appeal from the common fallacy that one person's gain is another person's loss. Which is a damning thought. While it is true many became wealthy during that time and robber barons exist. They still do today, They always have. People are people, majority have morals, few don’t, and the few who don't always seem to get more recognition, that is a part of the course of history unfortunately.
However, the moral of the story is that the same system which enabled a few to become extremely wealthy off their own ideas and innovations, was also the same system which provided the freedom and opportunities for millions of people to improve their lives and for very first time in many of their families history, presented the chance to become wealthy themselves. Everyone can benefit. The few who did become wealthy didn’t do so at the expense of others. But by developing revolutionary ideas which created those opportunities which didn’t exist for anyone before.
While it is true there are some people better off than others in America. When all is said and done, by and large even the poorest and most disadvantaged people in this country still have above the average standard of living of more than half the world’s population. Now this doesn’t mean we should be satisfied, we are a wealthier country and have and can be better, but we ought to have a sense of proportion when it comes to recognizing both the source and the problem.

Paragraphs are your friend.

 

[13eastxpharoh]

The middle class did not arrive spontaneously. Exploitation of child labor was only getting worse, not better, prior to child, labor laws, and regulations.

I guess it comes down to asking whether we want to have a country with a middle class or not.

The middle class is a very broad term. When did I say or indicate people arrived spontaneously?

Why did child labor exist in this country the way it did? Because America was a poor and desolate place before they got here. Child labor is a symptom of poverty, and poverty's biggest enemy is the free market. A trend in child labor increasing often means a reduction in education and schooling for children. Yet during the period I'm referring to the number of schools and students increased substantially and therefore, obviously access to education. Also what you fail to recognize that child labor was – and still is, in some places – a way for desperately poor people to stay alive and perhaps create a stepping stone for a better future. Denying them the opportunity to improve their lives and help take care of their families through regulation is oppressive and how you help to create generations of poverty. Again I will ask the question though, do you really think millions of people came here to be "exploited? They knew the "exploitation" you speak of could and again I'll say did improve their lives.

 

[ataraxia]

The middle class is a very broad term. When did I say or indicate people arrived spontaneously?

Why did child labor exist in this country the way it did? Because America was a poor and desolate place before they got here. Child labor is a symptom of poverty, and poverty's biggest enemy is the free market. A trend in child labor increasing often means a reduction in education and schooling for children. Yet during the period I'm referring to the number of schools and students increased substantially and therefore, obviously access to education. Also what you fail to recognize that child labor was – and still is, in some places – a way for desperately poor people to stay alive and perhaps create a stepping stone for a better future. Denying them the opportunity to improve their lives and help take care of their families through regulation is oppressive and how you help to create generations of poverty. Again I will ask the question though, do you really think millions of people came here to be "exploited? They knew the "exploitation" you speak of could and again I'll say did improve their lives.

It only improved their lives after proper regulations were put in place. It was not happening when everything was left free and alone, which is a sort of false faith that many people have in capitalism. Extensive history and experience from around the world disputes that.

No one today argues against capitalism. Not even Bernie Sanders or AOC. The main controversy today is whether leaving it completely free and unregulated can lead to the most optimal outcomes.

 

[13eastxpharoh]

Paragraphs are your friend.

I'm here to engage critically on topics and issues of importance and hope to get people thinking and caring more. Refusal to acknowledge the content because you are apparently to illiterate or just lazy to read a few short paragraphs yet taking the time to write a comment that has no intention of taking the discussion anywhere is something a unguided child would do.

 

[Phys251]

I'm here to engage critically on topics and issues of importance and hope to get people thinking and caring more. Refusal to acknowledge the content because you are apparently to illiterate or just lazy to read a few short paragraphs yet taking the time to write a comment that has no intention of taking the discussion anywhere is something a unguided child would do.

I recommend that you continue "debating" with this style. It will serve you well.

 

[13eastxpharoh]

It only improved their lives after proper regulations were put in place. It was not happening when everything was left free and alone, which is a sort of false faith that many people have in capitalism. Extensive history and experience from around the world disputes that.

No one today argues against capitalism. Not even Bernie Sanders or AOC. The main controversy today is whether leaving it completely free and unregulated can lead to the most optimal outcomes.

Children improved their own lives and their families by working after regulation against doing so was put in place? Also the free market system doesn't equal Capitalism it has some disguising factors. And History does show the greatest improvement in regards to standard of living of the ordinary man and women across the world occurred with free market existing.

 

[BirdinHand]

People immigrated to the US because the conditions in whatever country they were coming from were worse and they saw a better opportunity here.

That’s the entire history of this country and continues to be the story of this country.

That being the case, it doesn’t mean that the US is some shining beacon or at all perfect.

The US has our own set of problems, always has and always will.

And the people within the US decide how and when to address what they perceive as problems.

That’s the point of government of/by/for the people.

The US came into existence in the time where the world was moving away from feudalism and towards mercantilism and eventually capitalism.

And has evolved as such - along with the rest of the developed world.

Government has changed and grown along with our society.

 

[BirdinHand]

The middle class is a very broad term. When did I say or indicate people arrived spontaneously?

Why did child labor exist in this country the way it did? Because America was a poor and desolate place before they got here. Child labor is a symptom of poverty, and poverty's biggest enemy is the free market. A trend in child labor increasing often means a reduction in education and schooling for children. Yet during the period I'm referring to the number of schools and students increased substantially and therefore, obviously access to education. Also what you fail to recognize that child labor was – and still is, in some places – a way for desperately poor people to stay alive and perhaps create a stepping stone for a better future. Denying them the opportunity to improve their lives and help take care of their families through regulation is oppressive and how you help to create generations of poverty. Again I will ask the question though, do you really think millions of people came here to be "exploited? They knew the "exploitation" you speak of could and again I'll say did improve their lives.

Bullshit.

My ancestors going into the mines as kids didn’t “improve their lives” they had to do so because there was so little regulation around how companies paid and treated employees, etc that they didn’t have a CHOICE but to work or starve.

They came to the US because they were starving in Ireland and then Scotland. And heard there *might* be opportunity here. They didn’t pull up information on the internet and know what the conditions on the ground were. They had no idea what they were walking into. And they were met with “No Irish need apply” signs and took the only opportunity available - mining.

Living in company housing, shopping at company stores, being policed by company police…and I can guarantee you, they hated it and wanted out. But see, they were also only paid in “company money” not actual US currency…so they couldn’t leave. They were trapped.

Government laws and Regulation - like saying workers have to actually be paid in US currency, not in “company store money” - improved lives. And those changes only came to be because people fought for them.

There is not one single law that exists in this country because corporations have willing given up power and ceded rights to workers willingly. Not wage laws, not laws protecting people with disabilities, not safety laws, not laws regarding how many hours a day someone works…none of them.

Every law we have that protects workers, sets wages, sets safety regulations, etc…came from people fighting to get those protections and NOT be taken advantage of by corporations. Every.single.one.

Capitalism doesn’t care about the labor.

That’s not a “myth”. That’s not a fake telling of the story - that’s a global reality. And the battles still continue around this globe to this day.

 

[13eastxpharoh]

People immigrated to the US because the conditions in whatever country they were coming from were worse and they saw a better opportunity here.

That’s the entire history of this country and continues to be the story of this country.

That being the case, it doesn’t mean that the US is some shining beacon or at all perfect.

The US has our own set of problems, always has and always will.

And the people within the US decide how and when to address what they perceive as problems.

That’s the point of government of/by/for the people.

The US came into existence in the time where the world was moving away from feudalism and towards mercantilism and eventually capitalism.

And has evolved as such - along with the rest of the developed world.

Government has changed and grown along with our society.

"While it is true there are some people better off than others in America. When all is said and done, by and large even the poorest and most disadvantaged people in this country still have above the average standard of living of more than half the world’s population. Now this doesn’t mean we should be satisfied, we are a wealthier country and have and can be better, but we ought to have a sense of proportion when it comes to recognizing both the source and the problem." I acknowledged things were not "perfect" which many know is unattainable. I think you failed to engage with the thread critically because you are telling me things I already said and know.

 

[Fearandloathing]

A myth is a story that explains world and human experience and events that otherwise can’t be explained. The purpose of establishing a myth is to shape society and social behavior. When myths get established and adopted, they tend to be so strongly held that when anyone comes along and differs with and contradicts them they face the risk of being dismissed with no thought or consideration for the truth they may be telling.
Starting today I'm going to take the risk of such dismissal because it's so urgent and important to me that the myths I'm going to address(in separate threads) are deflated and the reality is recognized. So that way a correct perception of past and present can be examined for the sake of benefiting society.
Over the past nine decades there has been a drastic shift in the attitude and opinion of the public in relation to the role of individuals and governments in a society. The shift being from the belief in individual responsibility to a society in which the emphasis is on social responsibility and the government the protector of the individual.
In order for such a shift in public attitudes and opinions to occur, they largely have to be produced and reinforced by the development of myths about prior experience. I’m going to cover some of the myths which have caused the shift in attitude and opinion and are likely a part of your thinking if you’ve ever taken American history courses at any level.
The first Myth i'm going to confront is the robber baron myth. The myth that the 19th century was a time in which the rich became richer and the poor became poorer. The myth that it was a century of growing wealth inequality as a result of the free market system. That It was an era where rugged unrestrained individualism existed and as a consequence greedy monopoly capitalists exploited the working class and poor unmercifully.
That is the myth. So what is the reality? The reality is there is almost no other period in recorded human history which saw such improvement in the standard of living of the ordinary man and woman as the 19th and early 20th century did. That was a period when millions of people from all over the world streamed to America with nothing but the hope they could make a better life for themselves and their children and their children’s children. And they succeeded. Those of us in this forum are the heirs of that. We benefited by the virtue of freedom this country offered to our ancestors and by that virtue they were able to make a better life for themselves and us.
Do you suppose our ancestors came here to be oppressed and exploited unmercifully by greedy monopoly capitalists? No. If the myth were reality, then America would only have had an initial inflow of people who thought they were going to improve their living but ended up being worse off. They would not have been followed by their relatives, friends and fellow countrymen and women who were facing the same conditions in which they now knew could be improved in America and the continued inflow of immigrants seen wouldn’t have been sustained year after year.
This myth gets its appeal from the common fallacy that one person's gain is another person's loss. Which is a damning thought. While it is true many became wealthy during that time and robber barons exist. They still do today, They always have. People are people, majority have morals, few don’t, and the few who don't always seem to get more recognition, that is a part of the course of history unfortunately.
However, the moral of the story is that the same system which enabled a few to become extremely wealthy off their own ideas and innovations, was also the same system which provided the freedom and opportunities for millions of people to improve their lives and for very first time in many of their families history, presented the chance to become wealthy themselves. Everyone can benefit. The few who did become wealthy didn’t do so at the expense of others. But by developing revolutionary ideas which created those opportunities which didn’t exist for anyone before.
While it is true there are some people better off than others in America. When all is said and done, by and large even the poorest and most disadvantaged people in this country still have above the average standard of living of more than half the world’s population. Now this doesn’t mean we should be satisfied, we are a wealthier country and have and can be better, but we ought to have a sense of proportion when it comes to recognizing both the source and the problem.

Before taking the responsibility for all of us please consult a writing guide.

This wall of word is unreadable.

As best I can tell it is an un-researched and unsupported rant about disconnected ideas that frustrate you.

 

[13eastxpharoh]

Bullshit.

My ancestors going into the mines as kids didn’t “improve their lives” they had to do so because there was so little regulation around how companies paid and treated employees, etc that they didn’t have a CHOICE but to work or starve.

They came to the US because they were starving in Ireland and then Scotland. And heard there *might* be opportunity here. They didn’t pull up information on the internet and know what the conditions on the ground were. They had no idea what they were walking into. And they were met with “No Irish need apply” signs and took the only opportunity available - mining.

Living in company housing, shopping at company stores, being policed by company police…and I can guarantee you, they hated it and wanted out. But see, they were also only paid in “company money” not actual US currency…so they couldn’t leave. They were trapped.

Government laws and Regulation - like saying workers have to actually be paid in US currency, not in “company store money” - improved lives. And those changes only came to be because people fought for them.

There is not one single law that exists in this country because corporations have willing given up power and ceded rights to workers willingly. Not wage laws, not laws protecting people with disabilities, not safety laws, not laws regarding how many hours a day someone works…none of them.

Every law we have that protects workers, sets wages, sets safety regulations, etc…came from people fighting to get those protections and NOT be taken advantage of by corporations. Every.single.one.

Capitalism doesn’t care about the labor.

That’s not a “myth”. That’s not a fake telling of the story - that’s a global reality. And the battles still continue around this globe to this day.

I know this will make you mad but everyone has a choice. They had more of a choice than compared to today. There is always truth within the myth, I acknowledge that and not denying some things didn't happen.

Do you think Public housing is better than company housing? Do you think militarized police is better than company police? Those are some of the things the most oppressed people in this country today are facing and have faced for decades as a result of the government regulations and laws you speak of. Problems you think exist because corporations where were evil where actually caused by government intervention. You are mistaking capitalism for cronyism. And capitalism doesn't care about the labor? Thats the most ignorant comment ever. You obviously have never read or studied any contributing works related to it. I suggest educating yourself on what you're talking about, especially on more important discussions such as this one.

 

[13eastxpharoh]

Before taking the responsibility for all of us please consult a writing guide.

This wall of word is unreadable.

As best I can tell it is an un-researched and unsupported rant about disconnected ideas that frustrate you.

Thats it? Nothing to support your statement? Way to move the discussion forward. And history and experiences are not like opinions, they can't be argued. What I said happened and is true, If it wasn't we wouldn't be freely engaging in attempted discourse today that many around the world don't have access to for a number of reasons.

 

[BirdinHand]

I know this will make you mad but everyone has a choice. They had more of a choice than compared to today.

.

Do you think Public housing is better than company housing?

Yes. You know how company housing worked? John died in the mines? Pack up your shit and move Judy and kids. Need this house for someone else. You have until morning to be gone.

Do you think militarized police is better than company police?

Yes.

Those are some of the things the most oppressed people in this country today are facing and have faced for decades as a result of the government regulations and laws you speak of. Problems you think exist because corporations where were evil where actually caused by government intervention.

Nope. Problems existed because companies were largely unregulated. They had their own laws, they had their own currency, they had their own stores, they had their own indentured servants that they effectively ruled
Over and owned.

Unfettered capitalism is a nightmare for the vast majority of people. Unless you happen to be the owner of the capital system and means of production - in which case you make out very well.

You are mistaking capitalism for cronyism.

Nope. Cronyism can be a power and status system within capitalism, but it is not distinct from it.

And capitalism doesn't care about the labor? Thats the most ignorant comment ever. You obviously have never read or studied any contributing works related to it. I suggest educating yourself on what you're talking about, especially on more important discussions such as this one.

This is far from an “important discussion”

This is you posting nonsense because you seem to believe in unfettered free market capitalism.

I tend to view individuals with such a perspective as rather juvenile in their understanding of the world.


Capitalism, as an economic system, has very little regard for labor or people in general.

Labor is merely a commodity. Calitalism extracts as much possible from labor in order to achieve the highest profits possible. It doesn’t care if that labor is done by a machine, an animal or a human.

The “free market” doesn’t care about you. The free market cares about maximizing profits. The only thing that matters is how efficiently and how much. It doesn’t matter who is doing the labor and who is doing the buying. All that matters are profits.

 

[instagramsci]

You are mistaking capitalism for cronyism.

There is no such thing as "cronyism"

That is just capitalism

 

[Loulit01]

The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire

In 1900, 25,000 of the nearly 100,000 textile workers in the South were children under 16. By 1904, overall employment of children had increased to 50,000, with 20,000 children under 12 employed

Mining towns
The coal towns were almost always unincorporated; there were no elected officials, no independent police forces. Owners hired private detective agencies to watch over their workforce. Company towns were also untethered from the free market competition owners usually championed. Operators often paid workers in company currency, called scrip. They forced mining families to shop exclusively at the company store, which they stocked with food, fuel ,and clothing, even the tools and blasting powder required on the job. They set the prices of all those goods to assure a profit, a hedge against operating losses in the mines themselves.

What were the working conditions like in the meatpacking industry of 1900?​

Conditions were extremely poor in the meatpacking industry in 1900. Dangerous substances, injuries, poor pay, and abuse of workers were widespread.

'Orphan Trains' Brought Homeless NYC Children to Work On Farms Out West | HISTORY

Over a 75-year period, up to 200,000 indigent children went from city to farm.

www.history.com

Here are some examples of industrial abuse in the early 20th century:

• The Ludlow Massacre: In 1914, state police used violence to break up the Colorado Coalfield War.
  The Bethlehem Steel Strike: In 1910, state police used riot sticks and warning shots to disperse strikers at the Bethlehem Steel mill.
  The Memorial Day massacre: In 1937, violence occurred during this strike.
  The Colorado Labor Wars: These wars took place from 1903–1904.
  The East St. Louis Illinois Riot: This riot occurred in 1917.
  The Battle of Blair Mountain: This battle took place in 1921.
  The Herrin Massacre: This massacre took place in 1922

Other examples of industrial abuse include:

Anti-union violence: In 1904, coal miners were beaten and kicked by masked men.
The Industrial Workers of the World: This organization attracted attention in 1906 and 1909.

I could go on and on...

The robber barons were called robber barons because they were robber barons. Talk about revisionist history... Christ.

 

[13eastxpharoh]

.

Yes. You know how company housing worked? John died in the mines? Pack up your shit and move Judy and kids. Need this house for someone else. You have until morning to be gone.

Yes.

Nope. Problems existed because companies were largely unregulated. They had their own laws, they had their own currency, they had their own stores, they had their own indentured servants that they effectively ruled
Over and owned.

Unfettered capitalism is a nightmare for the vast majority of people. Unless you happen to be the owner of the capital system and means of production - in which case you make out very well.

Nope. Cronyism can be a power and status system within capitalism, but it is not distinct from it.

This is far from an “important discussion”

This is you posting nonsense because you seem to believe in unfettered free market capitalism.

I tend to view individuals with such a perspective as rather juvenile in their understanding of the world.


Capitalism, as an economic system, has very little regard for labor or people in general.

Labor is merely a commodity. Calitalism extracts as much possible from labor in order to achieve the highest profits possible. It doesn’t care if that labor is done by a machine, an animal or a human.

The “free market” doesn’t care about you. The free market cares about maximizing profits. The only thing that matters is how efficiently and how much. It doesn’t matter who is doing the labor and who is doing the buying. All that matters are profits.

The public housing statement is just the most racist ignorant neglectful thing I've seen on here. That alone tells me everything. Generation after generation trapped in poverty as a direct result of Government policy intended to be temporary and uplifting is a perfect example. I recommend reading the Wealth of nations to get a better insight on labor and how the free market works.

 

[BirdinHand]

The public housing statement is just the most racist ignorant neglectful thing I've seen on here.

Interesting, considering you’ve been here what supposedly? Two days.

That alone tells me everything.

Generation after generation trapped in poverty as a direct result of Government policy intended to be temporary and uplifting is a perfect example. I recommend reading the Wealth of nations to get a better insight on labor and how the free market works.

I recommend learning more about history and what company towns were like. Your posts indicate you have a real blind spot as to many aspects of history of not only the US, but global societies when capitalism was left unchecked.

 

[ataraxia]

Children improved their own lives and their families by working after regulation against doing so was put in place?

No, children improved their own lives and their families after they were kept from working 80 hour weeks and instead we had public education.

Also the free market system doesn't equal Capitalism it has some disguising factors. And History does show the greatest improvement in regards to standard of living of the ordinary man and women across the world occurred with free market existing.

No one is talking about getting rid of the free market. It's like the gas pedal on a car. It's what makes it go.

But would you want a car with only a gas pedal but no brakes or steering wheel? That's what an unregulated free market is like.

 

[13eastxpharoh]

The Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire

In 1900, 25,000 of the nearly 100,000 textile workers in the South were children under 16. By 1904, overall employment of children had increased to 50,000, with 20,000 children under 12 employed

Mining towns
The coal towns were almost always unincorporated; there were no elected officials, no independent police forces. Owners hired private detective agencies to watch over their workforce. Company towns were also untethered from the free market competition owners usually championed. Operators often paid workers in company currency, called scrip. They forced mining families to shop exclusively at the company store, which they stocked with food, fuel ,and clothing, even the tools and blasting powder required on the job. They set the prices of all those goods to assure a profit, a hedge against operating losses in the mines themselves.

What were the working conditions like in the meatpacking industry of 1900?​

Conditions were extremely poor in the meatpacking industry in 1900. Dangerous substances, injuries, poor pay, and abuse of workers were widespread.

'Orphan Trains' Brought Homeless NYC Children to Work On Farms Out West | HISTORY

Over a 75-year period, up to 200,000 indigent children went from city to farm.

www.history.com

Here are some examples of industrial abuse in the early 20th century:

• The Ludlow Massacre: In 1914, state police used violence to break up the Colorado Coalfield War.
  The Bethlehem Steel Strike: In 1910, state police used riot sticks and warning shots to disperse strikers at the Bethlehem Steel mill.
  The Memorial Day massacre: In 1937, violence occurred during this strike.
  The Colorado Labor Wars: These wars took place from 1903–1904.
  The East St. Louis Illinois Riot: This riot occurred in 1917.
  The Battle of Blair Mountain: This battle took place in 1921.
  The Herrin Massacre: This massacre took place in 1922

Other examples of industrial abuse include:

Anti-union violence: In 1904, coal miners were beaten and kicked by masked men.
The Industrial Workers of the World: This organization attracted attention in 1906 and 1909.

I could go on and on...

The robber barons were called robber barons because they were robber barons. Talk about revisionist history... Christ.

You are missing the main point of my post. I never denied robber barons didn't exist. I never denied bad things happened. As I said they have always existed. The problem with the reaction some people like yourself are having is you are failing to proportion when it comes to these things. You fail to recognize the progress that was made during the same time. I could go looking for facts I already know that are readily available for you to access yourself but you'll likely come back with other information I'm already aware of. I recommend reading more of everything rather than just negatives we've heard time and time again.

 

[13eastxpharoh]

Interesting, considering you’ve been here what supposedly? Two days.



I recommend learning more about history and what company towns were like. Your posts indicate you have a real blind spot as to many aspects of history of not only the US, but global societies when capitalism was left unchecked.

I'm familiar with company towns. There were struggles of course as there have always been but people weren't trapped there for generations like public housing. I recommend looking into public housing and the conditions the minorities who are oppressed there as a result of your government regulations and laws.

 

[13eastxpharoh]

No, children improved their own lives and their families after they were kept from working 80 hour weeks and instead we had public education.

No one is talking about getting rid of the free market. It's like the gas pedal on a car. It's what makes it go.

But would you want a car with only a gas pedal but no brakes or steering wheel? That's what an unregulated free market is like.

While bans against child labor are a common policy tool, there is very little empirical evidence validating their effectiveness. In this paper, we examine the consequences of India’s landmark legislation against child labor, the Child Labor (Prohibition and Regulation) Act of 1986. Using data from employment surveys conducted before and after the ban, and using age restrictions that determined who the ban applied to, we show that child wages decrease and child labor increases after the ban.

 

[ataraxia]

I'm familiar with company towns. There were struggles of course as there have always been but people weren't trapped there for generations like public housing. I recommend looking into public housing and the conditions the minorities who are oppressed there as a result of your government regulations and laws.

Yes, let's get rid of child labor now too. Sounds great. Let those little urchins earn their keep.

 

[weaver2]

The reality is there is almost no other period in recorded human history which saw such improvement in the standard of living of the ordinary man and woman as the 19th and early 20th century did. ...............

the same system which enabled a few to become extremely wealthy off their own ideas and innovations, was also the same system which provided the freedom and opportunities for millions of people to improve their lives and for very first time in many of their families history, presented the chance to become wealthy themselves.