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The Right has the Tea Party, the Left has... these people.

Someone's gunning for Glenn Beck's spot ;)
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But seriously thats a very good point Vic. I shouldn't be in favor of a public option because some asshole gave a stupid speech. Very good point.

It's exactly the same as if I were to find a KKK member screaming for lower taxes. That automatically makes lowering taxes a bad idea.
 
MrVicchio said:


Watch, listen, learn.
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That's very encouraging. The guy was very rational, moderate and logical. I'd say that not just US workers, but across the World, just as we've seen in Egypt, Libya, Bahrain etc people should be thinking about overthrowing systems that have failed. Millions are being thrown out of work, all social welfare, education and health programmes are under massive attack while trillions are spent on overseas military adventures and those that have brought this state of affairs to the doors of ordinary citizens are being rewarded with bail outs that are being siphoned off from the taxes that Joe and Josie Schmo are paying.

I think that guy made many great points and lots more sense than 100 of your right-wing tea partiers could ever make. This guy or Tom Tancredo? /argument.
 
"These people" really means "this guy", and one wacko doesn't represent "the Left."
 
Nice try Mr Vicchio. Your false equivalency fails though.
 
Overgeneralizing always fails. But does anyone else find it interesting that MrV equates this guy with the Tea Party?
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Overgeneralizing always fails. But does anyone else find it interesting that MrV equates this guy with the Tea Party?
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Excellent question. I look forward to the answer.
 
Andalublue said:
That's very encouraging. The guy was very rational, moderate and logical. I'd say that not just US workers, but across the World, just as we've seen in Egypt, Libya, Bahrain etc people should be thinking about overthrowing systems that have failed. Millions are being thrown out of work, all social welfare, education and health programmes are under massive attack while trillions are spent on overseas military adventures and those that have brought this state of affairs to the doors of ordinary citizens are being rewarded with bail outs that are being siphoned off from the taxes that Joe and Josie Schmo are paying.

I think that guy made many great points and lots more sense than 100 of your right-wing tea partiers could ever make. This guy or Tom Tancredo? /argument.
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Did you really watch the video? Seriously?
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
Overgeneralizing always fails. But does anyone else find it interesting that MrV equates this guy with the Tea Party?
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I ddint' equate him with the Tea Party, I equated the movement he backs as the Left's version of the Tea Party. Nice Try CC.
 
MrVicchio said:
I ddint' equate him with the Tea Party, I equated the movement he backs as the Left's version of the Tea Party. Nice Try CC.
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The title of your thread: "The Right has the Tea Party, the Left has these people..." Perhaps you should have been more clear if you were not equating the two.

Further, you know what happens when you use the term "The Left". You overgeneralize.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
The title of your thread: "The Right has the Tea Party, the Left has these people..." Perhaps you should have been more clear if you were not equating the two.

Further, you know what happens when you use the term "The Left". You overgeneralize.
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CC, love ya man I do, but you only get upset when people "overgeneralize" the left. It happens daily on here. Unless you're going to start a crusade to demand when one is slamming a group of people one gets specific I'm just going to have to well, disregard your call out here as being insignificant.

I'll be fair though, I'll make this addendum, since Mr. Becker himself labels the PART of the left he represents, and you are welcome to watch the video yourself and correct me if I'm wrong "The socialist, marxist and progressives". That better?
 
Thorgasm said:
Are you serious? :rofl

I don't think these people are equal to the Tea Party in any way. What dimensions are you using to arrive at this conclusion?
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How isn't he? He's of the same school as Van Jones, listen to them both...

I think my fail here, and I admit it, is not clarifying the IDEALOGICAL equivalence. The Tea Party is the Small Government Right movement, and the Left has folks like this gentleman and his comrades.

That better?
 
MrVicchio said:
How isn't he? He's of the same school as Van Jones, listen to them both...

I think my fail here, and I admit it, is not clarifying the IDEALOGICAL equivalence. The Tea Party is the Small Government Right movement, and the Left has folks like this gentleman and his comrades.

That better?
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So you think they are both equally looney?
 
MrVicchio said:
CC, love ya man I do, but you only get upset when people "overgeneralize" the left. It happens daily on here. Unless you're going to start a crusade to demand when one is slamming a group of people one gets specific I'm just going to have to well, disregard your call out here as being insignificant.
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I call out overgereralizations when I see them, right or left. Because it happens so often here, I tend to address it when it annoys me. I do not like the Tea Party and, generally think that they oversimplify things. However, I do not think they are, in general, nuts. Some of the extremist of their movement are... just like extremists of ANY group. What bugs me is when someone seems to present the concept that a group is defined by their extremists. I understand what you were trying to do in this thread, but your execution was poor. To me, what you were trying to do was to say, "guess what... for all of you liberals who think that the Tea Party is bat**** crazy, stop overgeneralizing, because it is just as easy to overgeneralize liberals from people like this". Good message. Not how it came across. Execution, MrV.

I'll be fair though, I'll make this addendum, since Mr. Becker himself labels the PART of the left he represents, and you are welcome to watch the video yourself and correct me if I'm wrong "The socialist, marxist and progressives". That better?
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Hmmm... I'll have to see the video to agree. As a progressive, I have found that term to be abused by some folks on the right to represent something that it is not... generally an extreme version, one that I, and most other progressives do not subscribe to.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
I call out overgereralizations when I see them, right or left. Because it happens so often here, I tend to address it when it annoys me. I do not like the Tea Party and, generally think that they oversimplify things. However, I do not think they are, in general, nuts. Some of the extremist of their movement are... just like extremists of ANY group. What bugs me is when someone seems to present the concept that a group is defined by their extremists. I understand what you were trying to do in this thread, but your execution was poor. To me, what you were trying to do was to say, "guess what... for all of you liberals who think that the Tea Party is bat**** crazy, stop overgeneralizing, because it is just as easy to overgeneralize liberals from people like this". Good message. Not how it came across. Execution, MrV.



Hmmm... I'll have to see the video to agree. As a progressive, I have found that term to be abused by some folks on the right to represent something that it is not... generally an extreme version, one that I, and most other progressives do not subscribe to.
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Fair enough, and yes, he actually says that's who he and those of his beliefs represent. The progressive, the marxists, the socialist.
 
MrVicchio said:
Where did I imply that?
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By equating the ideologies, that's where.

It's cool, if you were just trying to say that both sides have crazies then that is true.
 
Thorgasm said:
By equating the ideologies, that's where.

It's cool, if you were just trying to say that both sides have crazies then that is true.
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Both sides DO have crazies, only a fool would say otherwise.
 
I think the biggest issue is to somehow stop the extremists from claiming that they represent the mainstream of their group. This is when those who are mainstream need to speak out.
 
Dittohead not! said:
"These people" really means "this guy", and one wacko doesn't represent "the Left."
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He didn't seem like a wacko to me. No mouth foaming, no hysteria just very radical politics.

Thorgasm said:
Nice try Mr Vicchio. Your false equivalency fails though.
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No, I can't see any equivalency between this guy and the tea party. He doesn't seem to hate immigrants.

MrVicchio said:
Did you really watch the video? Seriously?
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I seriously watched every second of it. You are "very conservative", he's very left-wing. Of course you're going to hate what he says in the same way I hate what people like Tom Tancredo say. This guy on the video is saying that the US needs a socialist revolution in order to save it from the evils of corporate liberal capitalism and I agree with him. He says that they don't necessarily see that change coming about solely through non-violent methods, and he's right. NO social revolution HAS ever succeeded through entirely non-violent methods.

Other than the fact that he wants to see the economic, social and political model that US society is currently based on changed (and what kind of a socialist would he be if he didn't?) what are you so concerned about?
 
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CaptainCourtesy said:
I think the biggest issue is to somehow stop the extremists from claiming that they represent the mainstream of their group. This is when those who are mainstream need to speak out.
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Except that it is generally the "other side" who is claiming that the extremists represent the team they choose no to root for.
 
So, this guy is anti-imperialism... How does that make him crazy? And he thinks that corporate interests are too powerful. Okay, that's pretty accurate. And he says that they won't give up that power when faced with non-violent resistance. Doesn't that say more about the people who are hoarding all the power, wealth, and influence then about the guy who doesn't? They want to control everything so badly that they'll cling to it even unto death, so they can continue oppressing others, destroying their livelihoods, and letting them starve in many cases.

And this dude didn't even advocate using violence. He just said he's not blanketly against it. Wow, he's aware that things don't always fit into a black and white mold, and that we need to approach things on a case by case basis. We should approach our problems with a realistic mindset, instead of forming a firm rule and always following it. Dude's totally nuts!!
 
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