_Sal
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That's interesting.
In what do you believe?
I think that is exactly right. There is also the fact that the loud Evangelical voting block actually represents a significant portion of the voting population of certain states. Overall it may equal out in terms of religiosity, but it is more condensed in particularly areas whereas the religious left is scattered around everywhere.
And what are your religious beliefs?I would argue that the religious left quietly participates in religious events because the extreme right has hijacked being religious. I assume that the majority of people attending church disagree with me politically.
I also assume that the majority of of people agreeing with me about politics don't want to hear about my religion.
Consequently, only a few close friends know my religious beliefs and rarely do I share my beliefs with anyone.
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I don't know. part of me says yes. But, then when I look at the laws on discrimination, I come to the conclusion that X person's religious right to not like someone's race, sex, orientation, etc. does not trump their legal obligation to serve everyone equally. But, it sure would be nice if the gay person just went to a more friendly baker.
but if they did, should you have that right?
That is an interesting question.
If a Black person owned a bakery and a cake was ordered that demanded a Stars and Bars along with a Swastika on the top, would refusing that job be acceptable?
Maybe you are not aware, but black protestants are not very supportive of gay marriage. Although, they are at least trending in the right direction, unlike white evangelicals.
They are actually getting worse.
or a white person for that matter, or a Jew
I believe refusing would be acceptable because of our understanding of what the swastika was used to represent historically
we as a society abhor genocide
our society as a whole does not condemn gay marriage, in fact it is legal
I would say I am quiet about religion because the right has politicized it not because the "left" doesn't like it.Just observing how hostile some of the most prominent Leftist voices are to religion, it's not surprising they stay quiet.
It's absolutely not surprising here at DP.
He does not see, at this time, the Democrat Party that exists today: the one that opposes his faith, his occupation and his life style.
Life long devotion is both admirable and curious to me.
baking a caking (providing a service) is not the same as speaking one's beliefIs the first amendment topic orientated?
I feel this is a sauce for the goose kind of a topic.
yeshttps://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/e/evelynbeat109645.html
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I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
Evelyn Beatrice Hall
<snip>
That is your opinion.
He might see both political parties clearly and simply disagree with your conclusion.
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baking a caking (providing a service) is not the same as speaking one's belief
are words and action the same...no
yes
Is any value on the left of your graph lower than any value on the right? No. None of those groups have gone backwards during the 13 years covered by the graph. Almost twice as many White evangelical protestants favoured same-sex marriages in 2014 as did in 2001. That's impressive change, and I commend them for it.
I cannot make this apply to a big part of the population. My Brother in law and sister are both born again Christians.
My Brother in law is a life long member of Union Households.
By habit, he is a Democrat and a Christian. His religious and political affiliations are both ingrained and strongly held.
He is also a wonderfully generous and inviting person as is my sister.
Because the Democrats were at one time the champions of the working man, he is a devoted Democrat with unshakable faith in them.
He does not see, at this time, the Democrat Party that exists today: the one that opposes his faith, his occupation and his life style.
Life long devotion is both admirable and curious to me.
I'm not sure I am reading your words right.
However, you seem to be saying that the baker who refuses to provide the gay cake for the gay customer is violating the first amendment rights of the gay customer.
You also seem to be saying that the same baker who refuses to provide the racist cake for the racist customer is not violating the first amendment rights of the racist customer.
Why should the law be interpreted in one way for one customer and in another way for the next customer?
Why, in your opinion, should law be enforced discriminately for different members of society?
The Religious who? Yeah. I know. Not a very vocal crowd that one. No loud mouths like Falwell, Robertson or Reed stirring up **** in that bunch.
So...one almost has to ask--are there any Lefties who are religious? And, if so---why do they stay mum?
Stats:
Sure does look like the Religious Right is vastly outnumbered among all religious groups. Lefty Christians seem to number about the same as them--about 13% each. The other 74% seem to be a potpourri of various sectors and political tribes.
So why is the RR so politically powerful, the RL almost unheard of, and the nearly 80% left over nearly invisible?
The Religious who? Yeah. I know. Not a very vocal crowd that one. No loud mouths like Falwell, Robertson or Reed stirring up **** in that bunch.
So...one almost has to ask--are there any Lefties who are religious? And, if so---why do they stay mum?
Stats:
Sure does look like the Religious Right is vastly outnumbered among all religious groups. Lefty Christians seem to number about the same as them--about 13% each. The other 74% seem to be a potpourri of various sectors and political tribes.
So why is the RR so politically powerful, the RL almost unheard of, and the nearly 80% left over nearly invisible?
Not on gay issues, that is for sure.
because we do not support hate crimes or their depiction
the one cake has a hate supportive message, the other does not
Happy Wedding Day Dave and Sam vs. a swastika
unless you see them to be the same?
Add to that, being gay is a state of being, it's who you are, and impacts no one else, while being a racists is a choice, and impacts others negatively...so, they are totally different propositions, despite how often this gets paraded out. I can't discriminate against who you are, but I don't have to support your politics / bigotry, so I can't refuse to make you a wedding cake if you're gay, but if you're a gay racist, I don't have to bake your nazi cake.
Add to that, being gay is a state of being, it's who you are, and impacts no one else, while being a racists is a choice, and impacts others negatively...so, they are totally different propositions, despite how often this gets paraded out. I can't discriminate against who you are, but I don't have to support your politics / bigotry, so I can't refuse to make you a wedding cake if you're gay, but if you're a gay racist, I don't have to bake your nazi cake.
I would say, leftie believers would claim to be spiritual...
?
I no longer claim to be Christian but I am a strong "believer"
I was referring to the move down by white evangelicals after 2013, which was the exact opposite of the black protestants who moved sharply in the opposite direction.
Did I really have to explain that?
No, but a little intellectual honesty would have been nice.
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