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The Reason We Don't Have Universal Healthcare

Ginger Ale said:
Yeah, Americans are definitely used to being treated like a heard. MAGA with all their rugged individualism spew are the worst, they're practically branded cattle.

The majority of Americans polled time and time again want a universal system. Again, doesn't matter what the majority of Americans want, it matters how much the lobbyists are getting paid and how well a job they do. It's pathetic.

MAGA talks a bit talk with that drain the swamp bullshit, but in reality they're filling the swamp with more mud and water and getting stuck in it!
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Yowsa! Money has a very loud voice.
 
Bullseye said:
Expensive, long waits, rationing of services. Last word I saw the few of those 32 meet even the low standards they set for themselves.
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I can tell you don't travel much. Healthcare is great in the industrialized nations. Only in the U.S. are people dying due to no healthcare affordability. Same reason they are slaves to their jobs, and fear to change them.....etc, etc
 
Integrityrespec said:
According to data, 55% of Americans are opposed to a universal healthcare, single care provider system. In addition since the bottom 50% of taxpayers only pay 3% of all federal taxes the ones who pay the taxes apparently don't want to foot the bill for the rest.
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People are dying because of the lack of healthcare here....
 
tshade said:
I can tell you don't travel much. Healthcare is great in the industrialized nations. Only in the U.S. are people dying due to no healthcare affordability. Same reason they are slaves to their jobs, and fear to change them.....etc, etc
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Traveling probably isn't the best way. Live there, get a serious condition and see how long it takes to get care. As I mentioned the Canadian government has reported that they aren't meeting the time frame THEY establiishted.
 
Bullseye said:
Traveling probably isn't the best way. Live there, get a serious condition and see how long it takes to get care. As I mentioned the Canadian government has reported that they aren't meeting the time frame THEY establiishted.
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Much better than not affording it here.
 
Peacenik said:
No doubt aggressive lawyers are a contributing factor, but it appears that greed is the major cause of the high cost of health care.

There is simply no reason an insurance company should even be involved in normal preventative care. It is understandable that people will pay for health care. The form that payment takes has reached the level of absurdity.

A statement of the transaction shows that the provider billed an amount for their work. It is a highly inflated amount and they know they are not going to be paid that much. Then there is an amount the insurance company approves. But they don't pay that much. There is another amount they pay. Then there is a fourth amount you have to pay.

It's a shell game designed to be confusing. They don't want people to understand their statements. That way the insurance company can always slip in a little hocus pocus and grab some of the money for themselves. A little here, a little there, pretty soon it adds up to big money.

The best way to do it is for everyone to pay according to their ability into a system which provides health care for everyone in the USA. Everyone needs health care, but everyone can't afford it. The rich should pay more, everyone should pay a little. A truly great country values it's people enough to provide health care for everyone. If we really want to make America a great place to live, do that.

Health care providers should make a good living. No argument against that. Nobody needs to be getting exorbitantly rich from providing health care. People who do a function that requires a lot of education should be paid more, of course. That's reasonable. But should they be getting insanely rich off it? That makes it appear that they are only doing it for the money. We need a health care system devoted to the goal of making Americans as healthy as possible, not making as much money as possible.

We don't need to be paying two armies of bureaucrats to do battle every day about what should be paid and who pays it. Capitalism is not the best system for health care. Yes, it needs to be socialized. Single payer makes all kinds of sense. Over charging and many fingers in the pie do not. This stuff is expensive enough as is. And if anybody tries to monopolize the market for supplies, drugs and equipment, those companies should be nationalized.

If we had two political parties that really cared for the concerns of the people, all this would be a no brainer. Instead, they both answer to the rich and powerful. One is simply more blatant and underhanded about it.
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I'd say one of the biggest reasons is our politicians are not smart enough to sell it to the masses. They think they know best and the nation is not sold on it at all. You have have the nation paying 97% of all federal income tax and the top 1-10% Paying most of that. People paying for their health care like to make their own choices on doctors and facilities adn universal care would be restrictive to that.
 
Grand Mal said:
I've been beating this drum too. The cost of insurance is the biggest reason for the exorbitant cost of health care. That and most of the lawyers in the world being in America.
Insurance is the reason lots of things are really expensive. Kids sports are one example. And one reason the cost of insurance is so high is the size of injury and malpractice settlements. If you slip on a wet floor in a hospital and break your thumb, you won the lottery. And so did your lawyer.
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Not only that, but a large percentage of Americans are very unhealthy. Many of them don't have to be, they just make terrible choices with what they put into their bodies. That severely taxes the system. Taking care of all of them on a national level would be a herculean task without a huge increase in taxes.
 
Bullseye said:
Traveling probably isn't the best way. Live there, get a serious condition and see how long it takes to get care. As I mentioned the Canadian government has reported that they aren't meeting the time frame THEY establiishted.
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There's an issue in Canada around shortage of doctors. It's the baby-boomer bubble, rising through the population demographic and now retiring and leaving lots of vacancies. The issue is being addressed with immigration but it's slow, making immigrant doctors licensed in Canada.
 
Maidenrules29 said:
Not only that, but a large percentage of Americans are very unhealthy. Many of them don't have to be, they just make terrible choices with what they put into their bodies. That severely taxes the system. Taking care of all of them on a national level would be a herculean task without a huge increase in taxes.
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Exactly. We have a drug addiction problem unmatched by the rest of the world. Both in scope and our inability to find a palatable solution. This is despite of the fact that just about every other country has figured it out. And no it has nothing to do with socialized medicine.
 
Grand Mal said:
There's an issue in Canada around shortage of doctors. It's the baby-boomer bubble, rising through the population demographic and now retiring and leaving lots of vacancies. The issue is being addressed with immigration but it's slow, making immigrant doctors licensed in Canada.
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I understand there are problems, but the problems I mention are chronic - I remember hearing them a decade or more ago.
 
AConcernedCitizen said:
As for universal healthcare, Sweden spends around $10.6 billion per year with a population of 10.6 million, for an average cost of about $1000 per citizen. With 330 million people, we should be getting even better economy of scale, so our costs should be less than $330 billion.
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No, it's just the opposite. Socialist institutions work worse the bigger they get. Furthermore government has a mile long track record of wasting taxpayer dollars, not for saving the taxpayers money.
 
Ginger Ale said:
If we switched to a Universal Healthcare system it would drop those prices dramatically. It's cheaper when we all pitch in, and we could eliminate medicare. I do believe the numbers are a savings of about 13%.
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We are already pitching in, we are paying for the uninsured. Those who are opposed to single payer just won't admit it.
UHC would be such a blessing for everyone. The Uber wealthy can still do what they do while the rest of us wouldn't have to worry about losing house and home because of HC bills.
I don't understand why some are so reluctant to care for themselves and those around them.
 
Integrityrespec said:
I'd say one of the biggest reasons is our politicians are not smart enough to sell it to the masses. They think they know best and the nation is not sold on it at all. You have have the nation paying 97% of all federal income tax and the top 1-10% Paying most of that. People paying for their health care like to make their own choices on doctors and facilities adn universal care would be restrictive to that.
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All the rest of the advanced nations on Earth have universal health care. They like it. We have highly capitalistic health care. The rich like that. They like it so much they spend a lot of money to shape public opinion to keep our very weird system.
 
Peacenik said:
All the rest of the advanced nations on Earth have universal health care.
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Ask any forum member who lives in a country with universal healthcare and not one of them would switch to a US private system.

No UHC system is perfect and all face the challenges of an aging population.

But we get the care we need, for a much lower cost.
 
Bullseye said:
Expensive, long waits, rationing of services. Last word I saw the few of those 32 meet even the low standards they set for themselves.
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did you ever talk to any Canadians? I have. While on vacation in Canada during the Clinton’s effort to try and provide universal health care I personally asked 35 people (everyone that would talk to me) how do you like your health care system. All but one said they loved it.
The one that didn’t was a 20 year old college student who didn’t like it BECAUSE SHE WOULNT QUALIFY FOR PRESCRIPTION DRUG COVERAGE UNTIL SHE TURNED 21!!!!!
Doctors don’t like it because they don’t make as much.
What’s really sad is we pay more by thousands of dollars per person for coverage in America and our outcomes aren’t very good. Infant mortality, life expectancy, access to care are all worse for Americans than many other countries.
After my dr. died I went 2 years before I could get a personal physician.
 
Integrityrespec said:
People paying for their health care like to make their own choices on doctors and facilities adn universal care would be restrictive to that.
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This isn't true. There are no restrictions on which doctor I can choose.
 
tshade said:
did you ever talk to any Canadians? I have. While on vacation in Canada during the Clinton’s effort to try and provide universal health care I personally asked 35 people (everyone that would talk to me) how do you like your health care system. All but one said they loved it.
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That's not surprising. Aside from family doctor visits and cataract surgery I haven't needed much care. The cataract surgery was fantastic.

But I have known people (including my sister who passed away recently) who went through cancer treatment.

To a person they raved about the level of oncology care they received.

So as you suggest - talk to Canadians. Or some of the other members from Europe.

They'll laugh at some of the stuff posted here such as rationing.
 
Bullseye said:
Traveling probably isn't the best way. Live there, get a serious condition and see how long it takes to get care. As I mentioned the Canadian government has reported that they aren't meeting the time frame THEY establiishted.
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The worst case is you wait a while on a list. for non-urgent treatment. In the US there is no list for many.
 
Integrityrespec said:
I'd say one of the biggest reasons is our politicians are not smart enough to sell it to the masses. They think they know best and the nation is not sold on it at all. You have have the nation paying 97% of all federal income tax and the top 1-10% Paying most of that. People paying for their health care like to make their own choices on doctors and facilities adn universal care would be restrictive to that.
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Wrong! You choose your doctor and only you and he/she decide your treatment without any gov't or insurance company interfering with demands for more info or outright denials of coverage.
 
Brusan said:
Wrong! You choose your doctor and only you and he/she decide your treatment without any gov't or insurance company interfering with demands for more info or outright denials of coverage.
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Yup. There is no approval process at all when doctors order tests, treatments or surgeries.

The government isn't in the loop in any way whatsoever.

Unlike private insurers there's no one to say "that's not covered".
 
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