The reason not to help Ukraine

[Jason Warfield]

As I read the various threads and posts of those on the right who don't want to be involved with Ukraine's war for survival in any way, shape or form have a common theme for not wanting to,

Money.

They don't want to aid Ukraine because to do so will mean touch economic times...which war usually brings about for many. They don't want to be involved not because they are concerned for a potential American boots on the ground war that will cost American lives (a very understandable reason even those who would still want to prosecute the war)...but because our involvement is making everything expensive: gas, groceries and luxury items.

They are willing to let Russia take over Ukraine if that means that they pay less for gas and be able to get their brand-name items instead of the generic. I had a woman come into my store, tell me how she couldn't afford eggs anymore as she plunked down $80 for a bottle of wine. I've had to hear customers curse out Biden because I had to match inflation and raise a box of crappy-ass Franzia wine by a couple of dollars.

These people are all for war when they think its easy and they don't have to sacrifice anything. As long as support comes to no cost to them in any way. The moment they have to give something up, they turn fair-weather. Doing the right thing, promoting freedom, defending our allies...those things take sacrifice. It has never come easy for anyone to become free to stay free.

Folks, when we fought for our independence...we had help from France. Economic aid and some arms trades on credit. We are aiding Ukraine to help them preserve their freedom. That help comes at a cost, just as it did for France when they helped us.

But as always, the right puts money over doing the right thing.

Sad.

 

[Juks]

Money is the argument but not the motivation.

The true motivation is in short terms to weaken the support for the Ukraine and render Putin the possibility to succeed in his quest for bringing Russia back to the era of Peter the great. And of course his ambition to get new grounds to enrich himself and his conversant (and strengthen his hold on them) by depleting the financial assets.

In the long term it is to weaken the US by isolating it from its allies and by weaken the US economy (through politics of isolation) . US is considered the main "enemy" to both Russia and China.

 

[Binary_Digit]

Folks, when we fought for our independence...we had help from France. Economic aid and some arms trades on credit. We are aiding Ukraine to help them preserve their freedom. That help comes at a cost, just as it did for France when they helped us.

I strongly agree with our support of Ukraine's defense, but just a minor thing on this: France was already at war with Britain and the American War of Independence was a helpful proxy for them. Of course that's not to say we shouldn't be grateful to France for that help, as I sure as heck am, but it's not exactly the case that they jumped in and sacrificed solely to help us gain our freedom.

For me it's not an American thing, it's a humanity thing. Nobody in their right mind likes to see tyrants invading nations, and the strong are supposed to protect the weak, not take advantage.

 

[kaerin]

1. being a douchebag

 

[Tigerace117]

As I read the various threads and posts of those on the right who don't want to be involved with Ukraine's war for survival in any way, shape or form have a common theme for not wanting to,

Money.

They don't want to aid Ukraine because to do so will mean touch economic times...which war usually brings about for many. They don't want to be involved not because they are concerned for a potential American boots on the ground war that will cost American lives (a very understandable reason even those who would still want to prosecute the war)...but because our involvement is making everything expensive: gas, groceries and luxury items.

They are willing to let Russia take over Ukraine if that means that they pay less for gas and be able to get their brand-name items instead of the generic. I had a woman come into my store, tell me how she couldn't afford eggs anymore as she plunked down $80 for a bottle of wine. I've had to hear customers curse out Biden because I had to match inflation and raise a box of crappy-ass Franzia wine by a couple of dollars.

These people are all for war when they think its easy and they don't have to sacrifice anything. As long as support comes to no cost to them in any way. The moment they have to give something up, they turn fair-weather. Doing the right thing, promoting freedom, defending our allies...those things take sacrifice. It has never come easy for anyone to become free to stay free.

Folks, when we fought for our independence...we had help from France. Economic aid and some arms trades on credit. We are aiding Ukraine to help them preserve their freedom. That help comes at a cost, just as it did for France when they helped us.

But as always, the right puts money over doing the right thing.

Sad.

The French so throughly bankrupted themselves that a few years down the road they had a revolution, which led into a campaign of mass murder and civil war, which lead to a military coup, which lead to twenty years of continent wide warfare.

Their strategy might need a bit of tweaking.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Sooner or later, Putin planned on using Russian energy as a blackmail weapon against Europe. It simply happened sooner with his invasion of Ukraine in February.

By the end of 2023, the EU energy market will be gone from Russia. An annual $118 billion market will disappear from Putin's treasury.

 

[anatta]

As I read the various threads and posts of those on the right who don't want to be involved with Ukraine's war for survival in any way, shape or form have a common theme for not wanting to,

Money.

They don't want to aid Ukraine because to do so will mean touch economic times...which war usually brings about for many. They don't want to be involved not because they are concerned for a potential American boots on the ground war that will cost American lives (a very understandable reason even those who would still want to prosecute the war)...but because our involvement is making everything expensive: gas, groceries and luxury items.

They are willing to let Russia take over Ukraine if that means that they pay less for gas and be able to get their brand-name items instead of the generic. I had a woman come into my store, tell me how she couldn't afford eggs anymore as she plunked down $80 for a bottle of wine. I've had to hear customers curse out Biden because I had to match inflation and raise a box of crappy-ass Franzia wine by a couple of dollars.

These people are all for war when they think its easy and they don't have to sacrifice anything. As long as support comes to no cost to them in any way. The moment they have to give something up, they turn fair-weather. Doing the right thing, promoting freedom, defending our allies...those things take sacrifice. It has never come easy for anyone to become free to stay free.

Folks, when we fought for our independence...we had help from France. Economic aid and some arms trades on credit. We are aiding Ukraine to help them preserve their freedom. That help comes at a cost, just as it did for France when they helped us.

But as always, the right puts money over doing the right thing.

Sad.

my god. it's easy to send weapons to Ukraine - think of $56 billion ( much more really) not wasted there.
Send a $150 to each American instead
Europe can do what it wants to. it makes zero difference to the USA what happens to Ukraine

and puuleees no Hitler or references to Russia going after any NATO state - not happening -never was

as to France and the 1776 Revolutionary war, France had been engaged in periodic wars with Great Britain.
The Enlightment played a role too. They did it for their own advantage. There is no advantage for the USA to be warring against Russia over Ukraine

 

[Juin]

The French so throughly bankrupted themselves that a few years down the road they had a revolution, which led into a campaign of mass murder and civil war, which lead to a military coup, which lead to twenty years of continent wide warfare.

Their strategy might need a bit of tweaking.

Very good point. The "magnanimity" of France is always lauded, what is forgotten is that that foolhardy business led to its bankruptcy and implosion. It's a lesson to heed. Amazing how history repeats itself

 

[Rogue Valley]

There is no advantage for the USA to be warring against Russia over Ukraine

Sure there is. Showing our allies that we have their backs. Even when Russia is the culprit.

 

[iguanaman]

I strongly agree with our support of Ukraine's defense, but just a minor thing on this: France was already at war with Britain and the American War of Independence was a helpful proxy for them. Of course that's not to say we shouldn't be grateful to France for that help, as I sure as heck am, but it's not exactly the case that they jumped in and sacrificed solely to help us gain our freedom.

For me it's not an American thing, it's a humanity thing. Nobody in their right mind likes to see tyrants invading nations, and the strong are supposed to protect the weak, not take advantage.

The irony is that all democracies are at "war" with Putin and Ukraine is a "useful proxy" for them just like it was for France. I can think of no better use for our bloated military budget then to use those weapons to destroy Putin's army. He is a menace to peace in the world and the Ukrainians are a model for patriots all over the world who say no to dictatorships and 18th century imperialism. Putin's murderous aggression will not stand.

 

[iguanaman]

my god. it's easy to send weapons to Ukraine - think of $56 billion ( much more really) not wasted there.
Send a $150 to each American instead
Europe can do what it wants to. it makes zero difference to the USA what happens to Ukraine

and puuleees no Hitler or references to Russia going after any NATO state - not happening -never was

as to France and the 1776 Revolutionary war, France had been engaged in periodic wars with Great Britain.
The Enlightment played a role too. They did it for their own advantage. There is no advantage for the USA to be warring against Russia over Ukraine

If we let Putin's imperialist goals stand who is to say which country is next? Appeasing tyrants never works. It only emboldens them. Every American should be GIVING $150 to Ukraine it is our purpose and our duty.

 

[Antiwar]

The irony is that all democracies are at "war" with Putin and Ukraine is a "useful proxy" for them just like it was for France. I can think of no better use for our bloated military budget then to use those weapons to destroy Putin's army. He is a menace to peace in the world and the Ukrainians are a model for patriots all over the world who say no to dictatorships and 18th century imperialism. Putin's murderous aggression will not stand.

With respect:

The US/NATO is 21st century imperialism. Then there's nuclear war and what's left of Earth's ecosystems. Abolish imperialism and militarism.

 

[anatta]

If we let Putin's imperialist goals stand who is to say which country is next? Appeasing tyrants never works. It only emboldens them. Every American should be GIVING $150 to Ukraine it is our purpose and our duty.

nothing is NEXT. NATO states cant be touched

 

[Tigerace117]

Sure there is. Showing our allies that we have their backs. Even when Russia is the culprit.

Tell that to the Kurds. How many times have we thrown them under the bus again? Four, or has it been five by now?

 

[anatta]

Sure there is. Showing our allies that we have their backs. Even when Russia is the culprit.

we have treaty requirements, honor them. we dont have a dog in the Russia/Ukraine war

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Sure there is. Showing our allies that we have their backs. Even when Russia is the culprit.

Ukraine is not our ally.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Tell that to the Kurds. How many times have we thrown them under the bus again? Four, or has it been five by now?

The Kurds are not friends of the United States. They’re useful pawns. I will admit, they are people we will use, but they’re not allies. They can’t possible act as an ally to us, their interests are not ours

 

[EMNofSeattle]

nothing is NEXT. NATO states cant be touched

That’s not true. We couldn’t help the Baltic states if Russia invaded them.

 

[anatta]

That’s not true. We couldn’t help the Baltic states if Russia invaded them.

Article 5 says we do -whether that's "help" ...

 

[Rogue Valley]

Ukraine is not our ally.

You mean YOUR allie. Russia is YOUR allie.

Yes, Ukraine is definitely America's allie.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You mean YOUR allie. Russia is YOUR allie.

Yes, Ukraine is definitely America's allie.

No, there is no senate ratified treaty proclaiming Ukraine an ally

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Article 5 says we do -whether that's "help" ...

Article 5 will disappear fast if we actually have to fight Russia.

 

[Rogue Valley]

No, there is no senate ratified treaty proclaiming Ukraine an ally

That's odd. Joe Biden and the US Congress consider Ukraine our ally.

So does the EU. So does NATO.

Your the odd man out.

 

[iguanaman]

With respect:

The US/NATO is 21st century imperialism. Then there's nuclear war and what's left of Earth's ecosystems. Abolish imperialism and militarism.

You obviously have no clue what imperialism is. NATO is an alliance and incapable of acquiring territory since it is not a nation. If we let Putin continue this aggression because he has nuclear arms we all might as well surrender to Russia right now.

Imperialism is the state policy, practice, or advocacy of extending power and dominion, especially by direct territorial acquisition or by gaining political and economic control of other areas,[2][3] often through employing hard power, especially military force, but also soft power. While related to the concepts of colonialism and empire, imperialism is a distinct concept that can apply to other forms of expansion and many forms of government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperialism

 

[iguanaman]

Article 5 will disappear fast if we actually have to fight Russia.

What do you think the Ukrainians are doing with our weapons and assistance? Also we can help any nation that asks us for help.