The Real Reason Obamacare is Unconstitutional

[Fact]

The US constitution is the supreme law of the land and in its preamble it says, "to promote the general welfare". The aim of Obamacare is to promote the general welfare but in reality it doesn't. There have been dishonest arguments against Obamacare that have been based on religious ground ie birth control. If that argument were valid then the Jehovah Witnesses could object to blood transfusions and organ transplants and they Muslims could object because some medications are derived from pig thyroid and hospitals serve pork. The Mormons could object to the medical use of stimulants and depressants. The religious argument was dishonest.

Then there is the mandate argument but that to is dishonest. Car insurance is also mandatory.

There real reason is simple. Americans are now mandated to purchase private insurance to pay for the biggest killer and the biggest thief on the planet. The biggest thief and killer on this planet is American Medical industry. Someone will challenge me on that statement when you do be prepared for a fact enema.

According the Blue Cross Blue Shield 1/3 of what Americans pay for health care is waste and fraud. That is more than we spend on national defense or over $750 BILLION per year. Actually the Blue Cross numbers are low.

An estimated 450,000 American are killed by medical errors alone. Some estimates show that medical errors net the industry $1 TRILLION per year.

Obamacare forces Americans to pay for waste, fraud and carnage. The is unconstitutional.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

The US constitution is the supreme law of the land and in its preamble it says, "to promote the general welfare". The aim of Obamacare is to promote the general welfare but in reality it doesn't..

If you use pig latin of course it doesnt say that.

 

[a351]

According the Blue Cross Blue Shield 1/3 of what Americans pay for health care is waste and fraud. That is more than we spend on national defense or over $750 BILLION per year. Actually the Blue Cross numbers are low.

An estimated 450,000 American are killed by medical errors alone. Some estimates show that medical errors net the industry $1 TRILLION per year.

Is it too much to ask for a source for any of these figures, with a username of Fact? These numbers seem ridiculously inflated. Also, pointing out that more deaths occur in the health care industry isn't exactly profound. You don't tend to sever someone's artery while changing their tire or giving them a perm (hopefully).

 

[Fact]

If you use pig latin of course it doesnt say that.

Preamble

The Preamble to the Constitution is an introductory, succinct statement of the principles at work in the full text. It is referred to in countless speeches, judicial opinions, and in a song from Schoolhouse Rock. Courts will not interpret the Preamble to confer any rights or powers not granted specifically in the Constitution.

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


You DemSocialist are WRONG! For the future try being polite and civil and I might cut you some slack next time you are rude and wrong.

 

[Fact]

Is it too much to ask for a source for any of these figures, with a username of Fact? These numbers seem ridiculously inflated. Also, pointing out that more deaths occur in the health care industry isn't exactly profound. You don't tend to sever someone's artery while changing their tire or giving them a perm (hopefully).

Gastric Bypass Kills: Doctors and Hospitals Are Deadly

In 1999, the Institute of Medicine published the famous “To Err Is Human” report, … reporting that up to 98,000 people a year die because of mistakes in hospitals. The number was initially disputed, but is now widely accepted by doctors and hospital officials — and quoted ubiquitously in the media. In 2010, the Office of Inspector General for Health and Human Services said that bad hospital care contributed to the deaths of 180,000 patients in Medicare alone in a given year.
Now comes a study in the current issue of the Journal of Patient Safety that says the numbers may be much higher — between 210,000 and 440,000 patients each year who go to the hospital for care suffer some type of preventable harm that contributes to their death, the study says.
That would make medical errors the third-leading cause of death in America, behind heart disease, which is the first, and cancer, which is second. …
James based his estimates on the findings of four recent studies that identified preventable harm suffered by patients – known as “adverse events” in the medical vernacular – using use a screening method called the Global Trigger Tool, which guides reviewers through medical records, searching for signs of infection, injury or error. Medical records flagged during the initial screening are reviewed by a doctor, who determines the extent of the harm.
In the four studies, which examined records of more than 4,200 patients hospitalized between 2002 and 2008, researchers found serious adverse events in as many as 21 percent of cases reviewed and rates of lethal adverse events as high as 1.4 percent of cases.
By combining the findings and extrapolating across 34 million hospitalizations in 2007, James concluded that preventable errors contribute to the deaths of 210,000 hospital patients annually.
That is the baseline. The actual number more than doubles, James reasoned, because the trigger tool doesn’t catch errors in which treatment should have been provided but wasn’t, because it’s known that medical records are missing some evidence of harm, and because diagnostic errors aren’t captured.
An estimate of 440,000 deaths from care in hospitals “is roughly one-sixth of all deaths that occur in the United States each year.” (more; source)

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Preamble

The Preamble to the Constitution is an introductory, succinct statement of the principles at work in the full text. It is referred to in countless speeches, judicial opinions, and in a song from Schoolhouse Rock. Courts will not interpret the Preamble to confer any rights or powers not granted specifically in the Constitution.

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


You DemSocialist are WRONG! For the future try being polite and civil and I might cut you some slack next time you are rude and wrong.

Thanks for bolding something for me. I did see it there...

 

[ttwtt78640]

The US constitution is the supreme law of the land and in its preamble it says, "to promote the general welfare". The aim of Obamacare is to promote the general welfare but in reality it doesn't. There have been dishonest arguments against Obamacare that have been based on religious ground ie birth control. If that argument were valid then the Jehovah Witnesses could object to blood transfusions and organ transplants and they Muslims could object because some medications are derived from pig thyroid and hospitals serve pork. The Mormons could object to the medical use of stimulants and depressants. The religious argument was dishonest.

Then there is the mandate argument but that to is dishonest. Car insurance is also mandatory.

There real reason is simple. Americans are now mandated to purchase private insurance to pay for the biggest killer and the biggest thief on the planet. The biggest thief and killer on this planet is American Medical industry. Someone will challenge me on that statement when you do be prepared for a fact enema.

According the Blue Cross Blue Shield 1/3 of what Americans pay for health care is waste and fraud. That is more than we spend on national defense or over $750 BILLION per year. Actually the Blue Cross numbers are low.

An estimated 450,000 American are killed by medical errors alone. Some estimates show that medical errors net the industry $1 TRILLION per year.

Obamacare forces Americans to pay for waste, fraud and carnage. The is unconstitutional.

The aim of Obamacare is to greatly expand federal power and control without the need for constitutional amendment. As you correctly noted in post #4, the SCOTUS did not consider the preamble; 4 justices decided it was not constitutional (based on the commerce clause), four justices decided that it was constitutional (based on the commerce clause) and one justice decided that it was constitutional (based on the amended/added power to tax income from all sources).

In short, the SCOTUS was wrong to declare that the power to tax income from all sources now includes the power to mandate the purchase of any specific good/service or to pay a tax penalty for not later spending your income properly.

 

[wist43]

Promote the general welfare is not a grant of power. If it were, then anything could be construed as being in the general welfare - literally anything.

Weasals tried to grant the government such wide ranging power even at the time shortly after our founding - to which James Madison, the Father of our Constitution sternly rebuked them. He actually used education as an example of something that obviously was not within the FedGovs powers - but of course the radical leftists that now control our government fund education to the tune of $Billions per year - and of course have used the power of the purse to purge the curriculum of any vestige of the principles of freedom, and so dumb down the masses.

If the FedGov can do anything, then it is restricted from doing nothing, i.e. it is all-powerful.

Sadly Amerikans have been indoctrinated to believe this affront to liberty is actually true - all the "living Constitution" nonsense, and "democracy" that is taught in the government schools.

Obamacare is an affront to liberty on every level imaginable. John Roberts and the communists who sit on the SC simply rewrote it (which itself is unconstitutional) to fit within inane interpretations which were never intended to even be considered by its framers.

America is near death now - bankrupt and bereft of hope, Amerikans circa 2014 are citizens more akin to 1933 German citizens, or 1921 Russian citizens.

I used to love my country, and I will always love and fight for liberty - but what America has become is an abomination to liberty. It's truly sickening.

 

[Greenbeard]

According the Blue Cross Blue Shield 1/3 of what Americans pay for health care is waste and fraud. That is more than we spend on national defense or over $750 BILLION per year. Actually the Blue Cross numbers are low.

Waste generally refers to spending that isn't improving health outcomes--the ACA is supporting a variety of payment and delivery system reforms linking payment to quality and supporting better, more efficient care delivery. It also had a number of tools in it to go after outright fraud.

An estimated 450,000 American are killed by medical errors alone. Some estimates show that medical errors net the industry $1 TRILLION per year.

The medical system is getting safer under the ACA: These Obamacare programs might have helped save 15,000 lives

 

[1750Texan]

The US constitution is the supreme law of the land and in its preamble it says, "to promote the general welfare". The aim of Obamacare is to promote the general welfare but in reality it doesn't. There have been dishonest arguments against Obamacare that have been based on religious ground ie birth control. If that argument were valid then the Jehovah Witnesses could object to blood transfusions and organ transplants and they Muslims could object because some medications are derived from pig thyroid and hospitals serve pork. The Mormons could object to the medical use of stimulants and depressants. The religious argument was dishonest.

Then there is the mandate argument but that to is dishonest. Car insurance is also mandatory.

There real reason is simple. Americans are now mandated to purchase private insurance to pay for the biggest killer and the biggest thief on the planet. The biggest thief and killer on this planet is American Medical industry. Someone will challenge me on that statement when you do be prepared for a fact enema.

According the Blue Cross Blue Shield 1/3 of what Americans pay for health care is waste and fraud. That is more than we spend on national defense or over $750 BILLION per year. Actually the Blue Cross numbers are low.

An estimated 450,000 American are killed by medical errors alone. Some estimates show that medical errors net the industry $1 TRILLION per year.

Obamacare forces Americans to pay for waste, fraud and carnage. The is unconstitutional.

Good luck with your case before the court.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Waste generally refers to spending that isn't improving health outcomes--the ACA is supporting a variety of payment and delivery system reforms linking payment to quality and supporting better, more efficient care delivery. It also had a number of tools in it to go after outright fraud.



The medical system is getting safer under the ACA: These Obamacare programs might have helped save 15,000 lives

Whether something (anything?) is beneficial (or not) has no effect on whether (or not) it is a constitutional federal power. Clearly a well educated voter (or worker) is beneficial but that does not make education suddenly become a federal power.

 

[Fact]

Good luck with your case before the court.

The case would be winnable and when the criminals on the supreme court rule against this argument it will be 1776 all over again. The medical industry is even more corrupt and and dangerous than the financial industry and Mafia combined.

The fact is that in this corpocracy no group that is opposed to Obamacare will make this argument. The fact is the people who are against Obamacare are not really against Obamacare they are against Obama. The fact is, Obamacare is a giveaway to the insurance companies and insuring more people simply infuses more money into an already corrupt industry.

Here are some facts to consider:

America pays 3 times the world average for health care yet America is ranked 38th for quality.

Nearly 20% of the US GDP is health care. That is unsustainable.

 

[Fact]

Waste generally refers to spending that isn't improving health outcomes--the ACA is supporting a variety of payment and delivery system reforms linking payment to quality and supporting better, more efficient care delivery. It also had a number of tools in it to go after outright fraud.

The only reason that they have cut some injuries and deaths is because under Obamacare, medicare will not pay for injuries to patients so hospitals are acting slightly more responsible. Money is their only motivation. We should have gone to single payer and created a federal agency that oversees and regulates the conduct of hospitals, drug companies and doctors.


The medical system is getting safer under the ACA: These Obamacare programs might have helped save 15,000 lives

The only reason that they have cut some injuries and deaths is because under Obamacare, medicare will not pay for injuries to patients so hospitals are acting slightly more responsible. Money is their only motivation. We should have gone to single payer and created a federal agency that oversees and regulates the conduct of hospitals, drug companies and doctors.

Medical error data: Gastric Bypass Kills: Doctors and Hospitals Are Deadly

1/6 of US Deaths From Hospital Errors
By Robin Hanson · September 27, 2013 1:30 pm ·
I don’t post on medicine much lately, because my attention has been elsewhere. But this looks too important not to mention:
In 1999, the Institute of Medicine published the famous “To Err Is Human” report, … reporting that up to 98,000 people a year die because of mistakes in hospitals. The number was initially disputed, but is now widely accepted by doctors and hospital officials — and quoted ubiquitously in the media. In 2010, the Office of Inspector General for Health and Human Services said that bad hospital care contributed to the deaths of 180,000 patients in Medicare alone in a given year.
Now comes a study in the current issue of the Journal of Patient Safety that says the numbers may be much higher — between 210,000 and 440,000 patients each year who go to the hospital for care suffer some type of preventable harm that contributes to their death, the study says.
That would make medical errors the third-leading cause of death in America, behind heart disease, which is the first, and cancer, which is second. …
James based his estimates on the findings of four recent studies that identified preventable harm suffered by patients – known as “adverse events” in the medical vernacular – using use a screening method called the Global Trigger Tool, which guides reviewers through medical records, searching for signs of infection, injury or error. Medical records flagged during the initial screening are reviewed by a doctor, who determines the extent of the harm.
In the four studies, which examined records of more than 4,200 patients hospitalized between 2002 and 2008, researchers found serious adverse events in as many as 21 percent of cases reviewed and rates of lethal adverse events as high as 1.4 percent of cases.
By combining the findings and extrapolating across 34 million hospitalizations in 2007, James concluded that preventable errors contribute to the deaths of 210,000 hospital patients annually.
That is the baseline. The actual number more than doubles, James reasoned, because the trigger tool doesn’t catch errors in which treatment should have been provided but wasn’t, because it’s known that medical records are missing some evidence of harm, and because diagnostic errors aren’t captured.
An estimate of 440,000 deaths from care in hospitals “is roughly one-sixth of all deaths that occur in the United States each year

 

[Fact]

The aim of Obamacare is to greatly expand federal power and control without the need for constitutional amendment. As you correctly noted in post #4, the SCOTUS did not consider the preamble; 4 justices decided it was not constitutional (based on the commerce clause), four justices decided that it was constitutional (based on the commerce clause) and one justice decided that it was constitutional (based on the amended/added power to tax income from all sources).

In short, the SCOTUS was wrong to declare that the power to tax income from all sources now includes the power to mandate the purchase of any specific good/service or to pay a tax penalty for not later spending your income properly.

The aim of Obamacare is in part to put more money into the medical industry same as Bush's unfunded Medicare part D. Like Medicare part D Obamacare is simply another form of legalized theft. Obamacare is not all bad but it is theft.

Obamacare had little or nothing to do with healthcare reform. Healthcare reform is simple. When the medical industry breaks the law put the law breakers in jail. Health care in the US is unregulated. Look what happened after Clinton signed the Banking Modernization Act aka the repeal of Glass-Steagal. The financial industry went into chaos. The medical industry is anarchy. Consider this one example. A truck driver is only allowed to drive for 10 hours in a row whereas MDs have no limits on how many hours they can work. Truck drivers don't kill very many people and most of them are not thieves. Sure, part of this is because the American truck driver is of a higher moral character than an American MD but mostly it is because trucker are required to play by a set of rules and most welcome those rules. The trucking industry wants safety because crashed truck cost them money. Conversely the medical industry does not want patient safety because more disease and injury means more profits.

The idea that the "magic of the market place" can reform healthcare is absurd. The medical industry is the only industry that make more money by being inept and unscrupulous. Consider this; what diseases has the medical industry cured in your lifetime.

 

[Fact]

Waste generally refers to spending that isn't improving health outcomes--the ACA is supporting a variety of payment and delivery system reforms linking payment to quality and supporting better, more efficient care delivery. It also had a number of tools in it to go after outright fraud.



The medical system is getting safer under the ACA: These Obamacare programs might have helped save 15,000 lives

The BCBS figures are low but even so $750 billion in waste and fraud per year out paces the banks when it comes to corruption. The real numbers that will show whether Obama care is working are the following:

Lower Percent of GDP that is health care.
A lower infant mortality rate
Number of jail terms for criminal MD, medical CEOs and boards of directors.
Lower GDP per capita

From a humanitarian point of view for profit health care is IMO immoral. The exploitation of disease human suffering for profit is IMO inhumane. America loves war these days, perhaps we should end the war on recreational drugs and declare war on disease and actually come up with some cure and eradicate some diseases they way America did 60 years ago?

Has the medical industrial complex cured anything in your lifetime?

 

[ludin]

The US constitution is the supreme law of the land and in its preamble it says, "to promote the general welfare". The aim of Obamacare is to promote the general welfare but in reality it doesn't. There have been dishonest arguments against Obamacare that have been based on religious ground ie birth control. If that argument were valid then the Jehovah Witnesses could object to blood transfusions and organ transplants and they Muslims could object because some medications are derived from pig thyroid and hospitals serve pork. The Mormons could object to the medical use of stimulants and depressants. The religious argument was dishonest.

You need to read the SCOTUS ruling a bit closer. it only applies to birth control and no other parts of the bill. the BC mandate went to far and put what the SCOTUS considered unfair process and stress on closely run companies. (IE a closely run company) is a company that has no more than 1-5 owners i think.
this ruling does not apply to corporations or anything of that nature.

Then there is the mandate argument but that to is dishonest. Car insurance is also mandatory.

car insurance is only mandatory if you drive a car. if you don't drive a car you don't need car insurance so no car insurance is not mandatory.

There real reason is simple. Americans are now mandated to purchase private insurance to pay for the biggest killer and the biggest thief on the planet. The biggest thief and killer on this planet is American Medical industry. Someone will challenge me on that statement when you do be prepared for a fact enema.

yep there is a huge disconnect in what hostipals will charge for straight cash vs what insurance charges you.

According the Blue Cross Blue Shield 1/3 of what Americans pay for health care is waste and fraud. That is more than we spend on national defense or over $750 BILLION per year. Actually the Blue Cross numbers are low.

well the majority of what we pay is strictly paper work and administration costs. preventive medicine is the next largest cost that we have to pay for.

An estimated 450,000 American are killed by medical errors alone. Some estimates show that medical errors net the industry $1 TRILLION per year.

Obamacare forces Americans to pay for waste, fraud and carnage. The is unconstitutional.

umm no that is not unconstitutional it is stupid but not unconstitutional.

 

[Fact]

You need to read the SCOTUS ruling a bit closer. it only applies to birth control and no other parts of the bill. the BC mandate went to far and put what the SCOTUS considered unfair process and stress on closely run companies. (IE a closely run company) is a company that has no more than 1-5 owners i think.
this ruling does not apply to corporations or anything of that nature.



car insurance is only mandatory if you drive a car. if you don't drive a car you don't need car insurance so no car insurance is not mandatory.



yep there is a huge disconnect in what hostipals will charge for straight cash vs what insurance charges you.



well the majority of what we pay is strictly paper work and administration costs. preventive medicine is the next largest cost that we have to pay for.



umm no that is not unconstitutional it is stupid but not unconstitutional.

If Obamacare mandated that Americans had to have health care it would not be unconstitutional but it mandates that they have to have allopathic care from an industry that is the biggest thief and killer on the planet. Any entity that kills Americans and steals from them violates their constitutional rights is unconstitutional. Obamacare has not sufficiently cleaned up health care. When the health care industry comes up to international standards then it will be lawful. Crime against Americans is bad enough but when it is sanctioned by the government it is a clear violation of the constitution.

 

[ludin]

If Obamacare mandated that Americans had to have health care it would not be unconstitutional but it mandates that they have to have allopathic care from an industry that is the biggest thief and killer on the planet. Any entity that kills Americans and steals from them violates their constitutional rights is unconstitutional. Obamacare has not sufficiently cleaned up health care. When the health care industry comes up to international standards then it will be lawful. Crime against Americans is bad enough but when it is sanctioned by the government it is a clear violation of the constitution.

that doesn't make it unconstitutional.
you are stating your opinion as fact it doesn't work that way.

 

[Fact]

that doesn't make it unconstitutional.
you are stating your opinion as fact it doesn't work that way.

It does work that way. The constitution belongs to the people and it is there to protect the people from enemies even if that enemy is the government.

It is a fact that the US Constitution in part instructs the the government to promote the public well and to protect Americans. That is both the letter and the spirit of the supreme law of the land. Supreme law of the land mean that the constitution supersedes all other laws if said laws violate the constitution. Forcing people to pay for and participate in something that steals from them and kills them in what can best be described as a medical holocaust is illegal/unconstitutional.

As it stands now the ACA is unlawful.

I have already proven that it is unconstitutional but the burden of proof should be, why is it constitutional and not why it isn't unconstitutional.

Why is Obamacare constitutional in your view and best erudition?

Why is it legal under the the US constitution the require under penalty of law to force people to pay for the biggest criminal enterprise and killer in the history of the world?

Make your argument.

 

[ludin]

It does work that way. The constitution belongs to the people and it is there to protect the people from enemies even if that enemy is the government.

This has nothing to do with what you posted.

It is a fact that the US Constitution in part instructs the the government to promote the public well and to protect Americans. That is both the letter and the spirit of the supreme law of the land. Supreme law of the land mean that the constitution supersedes all other laws if said laws violate the constitution. Forcing people to pay for and participate in something that steals from them and kills them in what can best be described as a medical holocaust is illegal/unconstitutional.

LOL medical holocaust this great. appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy not an argument.
See how you have to prove they are stealing and 2 prove that hostpitals are out there to kill people then you can make an argument.

yep medical deaths do happen. there are various reasons for it as well. routine surgeries can go badly if there are underlieing issues that are not accounted for or not known.
other times they are critical surgeries that have real risks involved.

As it stands now the ACA is unlawful.

no it isn't you opinion is not fact nor is your limited knowledge of what you are talking about.

I have already proven that it is unconstitutional but the burden of proof should be, why is it constitutional and not why it isn't unconstitutional.

no you didn't you stated your opinion as a fact and it isn't a fact it is your opinion. there is nothing in the constitution that say what you say in your OP.
now i believe that it is unconstitutional among other reasons in general but they actually have a basis in the constitution.

Why is Obamacare constitutional in your view and best erudition?

I personally don't think it is however your reasoning behind your objection is flawed. you actually have to argue based on what in the constitution makes it unconstitutional.
nothing of what you said is in the constitution.

Why is it legal under the the US constitution the require under penalty of law to force people to pay for the biggest criminal enterprise and killer in the history of the world?

Make your argument.

read the SCOTUS ruling on the issue. 1. they consider the penalty a tax. since the federal government has the ability to issue taxes then therefore they could do that.
i disagree with this notion only because the obama administration continued to call it a penalty which is unconstitutional.

you have to prove they are a criminal organization and a killer so far you are just spouting appeals to emotion those are not arguments.

it isn't my argument to make you have to prove what you said is unconstitutional and what amendment is being violated so far you have yet to do that.

 

[Fact]

This has nothing to do with what you posted.



LOL medical holocaust this great. appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy not an argument.
See how you have to prove they are stealing and 2 prove that hostpitals are out there to kill people then you can make an argument.

yep medical deaths do happen. there are various reasons for it as well. routine surgeries can go badly if there are underlieing issues that are not accounted for or not known.
other times they are critical surgeries that have real risks involved.



no it isn't you opinion is not fact nor is your limited knowledge of what you are talking about.



no you didn't you stated your opinion as a fact and it isn't a fact it is your opinion. there is nothing in the constitution that say what you say in your OP.
now i believe that it is unconstitutional among other reasons in general but they actually have a basis in the constitution.


I personally don't think it is however your reasoning behind your objection is flawed. you actually have to argue based on what in the constitution makes it unconstitutional.
nothing of what you said is in the constitution.



read the SCOTUS ruling on the issue. 1. they consider the penalty a tax. since the federal government has the ability to issue taxes then therefore they could do that.
i disagree with this notion only because the obama administration continued to call it a penalty which is unconstitutional.

you have to prove they are a criminal organization and a killer so far you are just spouting appeals to emotion those are not arguments.

it isn't my argument to make you have to prove what you said is unconstitutional and what amendment is being violated so far you have yet to do that.

This has nothing to do with what you posted.



LOL medical holocaust this great. appeal to emotion is a logical fallacy not an argument.
See how you have to prove they are stealing and 2 prove that hostpitals are out there to kill people then you can make an argument.

Are you sure what a logical fallacy is? The fact is the leading cause of death and injury in the US is the medical industry and based on what gets reported they kill at least 1 MILLION Americans a year. That is no fallacy that is reality and the data speaks for itself. You are also putting words in my mouth and being intellectually dishonest. Hospitals are run by corporations and the bottom line of corporations is the the bottom line. Based on the 26 states that report there are 2 million hospital acquired infections yearly and 200,000 deaths. Ad that the the 450,000 killed by medical errors and the 300,000 killed by adverse drug reactions the only thing to call it is a HOLOCAUST!

As to infections; ALL health care acquired infections are preventable. They happen because they are allowed and they are allowed because they are profitable.

yep medical deaths do happen. there are various reasons for it as well. routine surgeries can go badly if there are underlieing issues that are not accounted for or not known.
other times they are critical surgeries that have real risks involved.

Most medical deaths are preventable but overall the above statement is naive. As to surgeries 16% result in an infection. Surgical site infections are 100% preventable.



no it isn't you opinion is not fact nor is your limited knowledge of what you are talking about.

Now you are getting nasty and presumptuous. Based on that I have written you are the one with limited knowledge. I know this subject very well and communicate regularly with Dr Starfield professor emeritus at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg school of public health and her colleague and Nobel prize Dr Peter Pronvonost. So before you type drivel do a little research. Google doctors third leading cause of death. That information appeared in the JAMA.



no you didn't you stated your opinion as a fact and it isn't a fact it is your opinion. there is nothing in the constitution that say what you say in your OP.
now i believe that it is unconstitutional among other reasons in general but they actually have a basis in the constitution.

The constitution is the law and the ACA violates the law. That's a fact and a no brainer.


I personally don't think it is however your reasoning behind your objection is flawed. you actually have to argue based on what in the constitution makes it unconstitutional.
nothing of what you said is in the constitution.



read the SCOTUS ruling on the issue. 1. they consider the penalty a tax. since the federal government has the ability to issue taxes then therefore they could do that.
i disagree with this notion only because the obama administration continued to call it a penalty which is unconstitutional.

you have to prove they are a criminal organization and a killer so far you are just spouting appeals to emotion those are not arguments.

it isn't my argument to make you have to prove what you said is unconstitutional and what amendment is being violated so far you have yet to do that.

The facts speak for themselves. The medical industry is a criminal enterprise and that fact that it is has the most criminal fine of every other industry combined proves that.

Here is a list of the top criminal fines. All involve health care companies. Bigger Fatter Politics: Largest Criminal Fines

How much more proof do you want... the CEO of Glaxo Smith Kline on tape raping a child?

 

[Kal'Stang]

The US constitution is the supreme law of the land and in its preamble it says, "to promote the general welfare". The aim of Obamacare is to promote the general welfare but in reality it doesn't. There have been dishonest arguments against Obamacare that have been based on religious ground ie birth control. If that argument were valid then the Jehovah Witnesses could object to blood transfusions and organ transplants and they Muslims could object because some medications are derived from pig thyroid and hospitals serve pork. The Mormons could object to the medical use of stimulants and depressants. The religious argument was dishonest.

Surprise! Anyone can refuse treatment for themselves of any kind for any reason, including religious reasons.

Also the preamble is not talking about the general welfare of individuals. It is talking about the general welfare of the nation. The Preamble has never been used in such a way as you claim here.

Then there is the mandate argument but that to is dishonest. Car insurance is also mandatory.

Sorry to burst your bubble again but...

1: Car insurance is NOT mandatory. There are millions of people that do not have car insurance. Car insurance is mandatory to drive on public roads. But it is not mandatory to have no matter what. Indeed you can even drive a car on your personal property all that you want without once having insurance on it. Not to mention the millions of people that don't even have a car does not have to have car insurance.

2: Driving on public roads is a privilege. Not a Right. However everyone has a right to determine how they spend their own money outside of taxes. The Mandate is not a tax. It is a fine. I know there are many that argue this point and use SCOTUS as a reference. SCOTUS however is wrong and so are those that try and argue the point. I have long since given up talking to people that make this claim though. I hate dishonesty. :shrug:

There real reason is simple. Americans are now mandated to purchase private insurance to pay for the biggest killer and the biggest thief on the planet. The biggest thief and killer on this planet is American Medical industry. Someone will challenge me on that statement when you do be prepared for a fact enema.

According the Blue Cross Blue Shield 1/3 of what Americans pay for health care is waste and fraud. That is more than we spend on national defense or over $750 BILLION per year. Actually the Blue Cross numbers are low.

An estimated 450,000 American are killed by medical errors alone. Some estimates show that medical errors net the industry $1 TRILLION per year.

Obamacare forces Americans to pay for waste, fraud and carnage. The is unconstitutional.

This is a new take. While I do agree that the Constitution does not give the Government the power to force people to pay private companies their money for ANYTHING (insurance or otherwise), I believe that your reasoning here is flawed. The government forces the people to pay for waste, fraud, and carnage all the time through taxes and wars. That actually is allowed via the Constitution.

 

[ludin]

The facts speak for themselves. The medical industry is a criminal enterprise and that fact that it is has the most criminal fine of every other industry combined proves that.

Here is a list of the top criminal fines. All involve health care companies. Bigger Fatter Politics: Largest Criminal Fines

How much more proof do you want... the CEO of Glaxo Smith Kline on tape raping a child?

you are wrong. the number 1 cause of death in america are car accidents. more people die by car accidents than anything else.
so random x blog site with questionable reputation is suppose to support your argument? *sigh* this discussion is over.

yes you have limited knowledge in what you are discussing. so far you are just ranting and have yet to say what in the constitution prevents this.
an appeal to emotion which is what you are doing is a logical fallacy.

 

[Joe Steel]

... Obamacare forces Americans to pay for waste, fraud and carnage. The is unconstitutional.

So does war. No one is arguing that's unconstitutional.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Then there is the mandate argument but that to is dishonest. Car insurance is also mandatory.

I forgot one more thing regarding this.

3: Car insurance is mandated on a state level. There is no federal law mandating car insurance.