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The REAL problem with US healthcare

The United States is the only country in the world where insurance corporations are allowed to profit selling health insurance to human beings.
The rest of the world see this as a moral question.
It is.

In the United States the right of people to receive affordable health care has always been trumped by the right of corporations to gouge Americans for health insurance and medical attention.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Didja happen to actually READ my post? Here's the pertinent part: "because of a serious - and sometimes life-threatening - condition". A broken arm IS a serious condition...and then I referred to the fact that the patients are there because their conditions are SOMETIMES life-threatening.
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There are about 6.3 million fractures a year in this country. In your mind they are all so life threatening that no one can ever be bothered to check the price of setting it because they might die so something has to be done about the cost. Got ya.

Fractures and Broken Bone Information
 
brothern said:
But that's NOT the problem. This same situation -- the dying patient in dire need of services -- happens in every other country too. There is the same percentage rates of dying Americans in dire need of service as there are dying Germans/French/Canadians in dire need of services.

Despite this, Americans still pay more for medicial procedures. The reason this price discrepancy occurs is due to the structure of the American healthcare industry - it's oligarchic and there is not an appropriate power balance between suppliers and demanders.
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Very true in its entirety, and well said. It should be noted, too, that the reason why most other first-world democracies (all of whom have socialized health care) have longer national life expectancies is because their people have easy access to preventative and low-level care, so that they aren't economically forced to put off necessary health care until it gets much more serious, and much more expensive. This is why the other first-world democracies pay about half in taxpayer dollars as what we already pay in taxpayer dollars...for better overall results. They get "twice the bang for the (taxpayer's) buck" by having socialized health care.

That's why regardless of how good the rhetoric of the "free-marketers" may be, I look more at the end results - and their end results are a heck of a lot better than our own.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
But what most conservatives don't get is that VERY few liberals want a centrally-planned government - , .
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The whole debate is about the continuum, is it not? Free market on one end point -central planning on the other. Conservatives argue that we are best situated somewhere on the free market side. Liberals argue that we are better off somewhere on the central planning side. Of course, conservatives are right.
 
Heebie Jeebie said:
Of course. But most people would be purchasing cars that cost much less than the $31,000 because the cars that are above that point cost a lot more than $31,000 ($50-$60K and up) while the cars below that point don't cost that much less ($18-$23k). So while the average makes it look like all new cars are really expensive they really aren't. Same with healthcare. A few people pay outrageous costs because they have unique problems. The rest pay far less because they have simpler to treat problems. Why would you look to reduce the costs to ALL Americans when reducing the costs to just the expensive few drops the average a lot?
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1. Whether a distribution skews left or right (in this case, you're asserting it's skewed right), it would not matter. The data I linked to compares cost data across numerous economies, which would presumably account for skew in the same manner as the US. Unless these other populations were somehow not human and there is an absence of people with unique, costly problems. :P

image014.webp

2. If most people purchased cars that cost much less than $31,000 then the average would drop.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Very true in its entirety, and well said. It should be noted, too, that the reason why most other first-world democracies (all of whom have socialized health care) have longer national life expectancies is because their people have easy access to preventative and low-level care, so that they aren't economically forced to put off necessary health care until it gets much more serious, and much more expensive.
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That is not true. The biggest factor in life expectancy is childhood diseases and infant mortality rates. You get into your 20's healthy and you can expect to live longer than the average at your time of birth.
 
brothern said:
2. If most people purchased cars that cost much less than $31,000 then the average would drop.
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Most people already do. In fact the vast majority of new cars sold cost less than that. Which is why large scale comparisons don't really reflect what most people face.
 
Buck Ewer said:
The United States is the only country in the world where insurance corporations are allowed to profit selling health insurance to human beings.
The rest of the world see this as a moral question.
It is.

In the United States the right of people to receive affordable health care has always been trumped by the right of corporations to gouge Americans for health insurance and medical attention.
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giggle. Such absolute horseBLEEEPAs Ive said befoe -
moral schmoral. What ' other countries have found" is that it is easy to get elected selling this faux populist BS to people- always window dressed with the requisite crocodile tears.
I'm so SURE uber rich phonies like HArry Reid, Obama, and Nancy Pelosi can hardly sleep at night given the plight of the poor poor peasants who can't afford health care. LOL
 
Buck Ewer said:
The United States is the only country in the world where insurance corporations are allowed to profit selling health insurance to human beings. The rest of the world see this as a moral question. It is. In the United States the right of people to receive affordable health care has always been trumped by the right of corporations to gouge Americans for health insurance and medical attention.
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France. Germany. Japan.

International Health Systems | Physicians for a National Health Program
 
That would actually be an excellent start. One reason that medical bills are so high is because of the absurd malpractice insurance fees due to the ridiculous amounts awarded in lawsuits.
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...and this is the line constantly used by the right. Remember the McDonald's coffee lawsuit .....sure it was frivolous ...but the GOP was able to use this one incident and make republicans think that every black...every minority ...is running around looking for somebody to sue.

If you guys can infer this from a few isolated cases ...why shouldn't black infer all whites are deranged Timothy McVeigh wannabe....why not?

The idea that corporations exist with a speed dial to their lawyer ...they flood Washington with Lobbyist .....they line every politician's wallet for favor.....and they craft in isolation almost every legal document the average American signs ...and then coerce others that ..poor people are winning ....and every American must disarm themselves from any legal recourse ..because of a coffee spill is mind boggling!!

Poor people almost never sue corporations and win. And one reason is ....the very laws was crafted by the rich....for the rich!!

Wanna get rid of the fat in healthcare do this:

  1. Get rid of the middle-man.....the insurance companies ....it's no more than a dam scam. They do nothing except come between your life and your doctor ...for profit!
  2. Stop the dead weight on the system.....illegals have stuck the American people with bills every second that goes by.
  3. Get the food companies to comply......diabeties ...cancer and many of those chronic illness strike too many Americans ...including many who try to exercise and eat right. Oh and BTW I believe soda is unhealthy and addictive.
  4. CUT OUT THE SUGAR .....mandate every food manufacturer to make a sugar-less version of their product. And here's how this is a win-win for all. The sugared product is still available ..and they can sell the sugarless ....for the same price. This alone would save billions.
  5. Start training kids early ....to eat properly
 
Buck Ewer said:
Exactly... In France Germany and Japan insurance corporations are not allowed to make a profit selling health insurance to human beings, just like the rest of the world. Doctors make lots of profit depending on their talents and good for them.
Only in the US are insurance corporations ALLOWED to make a profit selling health insurance to human beings.
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France, Germany and Japan are contradictions to your statement. They are multi-payer health care systems. Your statement should be corrected to, "The US, France, Germany and Japan allow companies to make a profit selling health insurance."
 
KLATTU said:
giggle. Such absolute horseBLEEEPAs Ive said befoe -
moral schmoral. What ' other countries have found" is that it is easy to get elected selling this faux populist BS to people- always window dressed with the requisite crocodile tears.
I'm so SURE uber rich phonies like HArry Reid, Obama, and Nancy Pelosi can hardly sleep at night given the plight of the poor poor peasants who can't afford health care. LOL
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So glad you find morality funny. The rest of humanity take it seriously. It is such a hoot when Americans die because they can not afford the healthcare the rest of the world enjoys...right?
Glad you can giggle about it, but believe it or not, not all Americans get giddy at the misery of their fellow citizens, some Americans care.
 
Buck Ewer said:
So glad you find morality funny. The rest of humanity take it seriously. It is such a hoot when Americans die because they can not afford the healthcare the rest of the world enjoys...right?
Glad you can giggle about it, but believe it or not, not all Americans get giddy at the misery of their fellow citizens, some Americans care.
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By using government? That doesn't seem like caring to me. :shrug:
 
Buck Ewer said:
The United States is the only country in the world where insurance corporations are allowed to profit selling health insurance to human beings.
The rest of the world see this as a moral question.
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So you want the government pushing your morality on the rest of the population? I thought that was something people like yourself objected to.

In the United States the right of people to receive affordable health care has always been trumped by the right of corporations to gouge Americans for health insurance and medical attention.
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The right of the people to receive affordable healthcare? What?
 
brothern said:
France, Germany and Japan are contradictions to your statement. They are multi-payer health care systems. Your statement should be corrected to, "The US, France, Germany and Japan allow companies to make a profit selling health insurance."
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Sorry but no...
No one makes a profit from the "sickness funds" used by these countries.
The article you cite talks a good deal about how doctors and some hospitals make a profit delivering medical care but health insurance companies in those countries do not.
From the article you sited:
The French health care system is primarily funded by Sickness Insurance Funds (SIF’s), which are autonomous, not-for-profit, government-regulated bodies with national headquarters and regional networks
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It is possible to buy private health insurance in France, Japan and Germany but these corporations, although they make profit selling other kinds of insurance, are specifically prohibited from making a profit from the sale of primary health insurance.
 
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Henrin said:
By using government? That doesn't seem like caring to me. :shrug:
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The rest of the world cares, and that is reflected in the way their governments act and care.
Why does that seem so strange to you?
 
Buck Ewer said:
Yes. That is the right of the rest of humanity.
Up until now, we have been the exception.
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So you have the right to get a service at a cost you can afford? Since when?
 
Buck Ewer said:
The rest of the world cares, and that is reflected in the way their governments act and care.
Why does that seem so strange to you?
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In the way the governments act and care? :2rofll:

So government is an organization of kisses and cuddles. :lamo

Maybe it's strange because it has nothing in common with how government actually works.
 
Henrin said:
So you have the right to get a service at a cost you can afford? Since when?
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Since about 1978 throughout most of the world . Some countries were doing it before then some came around later.
Most of the world pay about 8 to 10 % of their paychecks for health insurance, average about $2000 per person per year, and if one is poor, unemployed or indigent health care is free.
In the US the average spent of health care is $8,680 per person per year.
 
Henrin said:
In the way the governments act and care?

So government is an organization of kisses and cuddles.

Maybe it's strange because it has nothing in common with how government actually works.
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Your only point of reference seems to be the US... study the rest of the world and you will find a very different picture in regards to how other governments treat their citizenry's health care.
 
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