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The real american view on spending

Another area where Congress is spending Our Tax Dollars...Illegal Immigration....see:

"The Dark Side Of Illegal Immigration"

Illegal Immigration is costing us 100's of billions of dollars.....and Congress wants to give them amnesty, or a "Pathway to Citizenship"....why? The Dumacrats want more voters and the Republic-rats want cheap labor.....CONGRESS, BUILD THE DAMN FENCE!
 
Frankly I can't make a lot of sense out of all that. I'm not talking about cutting janitors and lunch ladies from schools, but bureaucrats and excessive athletics spending. Nor am I talking about what a few celebs may or may not do, but if they're laundering money thru a charity they need to be prosecuted for tax evasion.

What I'm talking about is a trillion dollars of debt added to our budget annually, or more as spending does what it usually does (rise), and how that's going to destroy our economy and be a disaster for EVERYONE. We have to get spending under control, and to do that we have to make real and painful cuts in the budget.

If we don't we are ALL going to regret it.
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I misread some of what you said. Sorry!:doh I agree with what you are saying. The wealthy charity thing is a bone of contention for me. It's legal and it's a way for them to save money.
 
okay. No, i wasn't in the military. I was denied service due to a hearing problem. I was a cop instead. However, i think veteran's services are the debt we owe them for fighting for their country, and in many cases suffering lifelong health problems for doing their duty. However, given how much trouble we're in, even cutting veteran's benefits might have to be on the table.




If the economy collapses entirely, all those social programs are going to vanish like a snowflake hitting a red-hot woodstove. We can cut some now, or lose everything in 2, 5, maybe 10 years.

I don't want to be alarmist but we really are on the edge of being in real trouble, worse than most people can imagine. We added roughly a trillion dollars in debt to our load last year; this year it will probably be more than a trillion. Our debt is killing us. Countries are dropping the us dollar left and right... If this goes on, the price of imports will rise dramatically. If the rest of the world loses faith in the us dollar because of our massive unpaid and unsupported debts (and they're getting close to that right now), our already tottering economy could suffer a fatal blow.

Most people these days think being poor is not being able to afford cable tv and a new car. They don't know what real economic trouble is, but i'm afraid we may find out if we don't bring spending under control.

It could be as bad as 1929-1939 all over again. Ever heard depression-era people talking about how some families had to choose to let some of their children starve and die, so that they could feed the other children enough to keep them alive? We'll have far worse to worry about than social security and food stamps if we suffer that level of collapse again... Or worse. The great depression was somewhat mitigated by the fact that most americans still lived on the family farm back then... Nowadays most americans live in cities and barely know how to grow a fern, let along a field of corn. It could get really bad.

We can't keep adding a trillion-plus to our debt every year.
It.
Is.
Not.
Sustainable.

You done good....couldn't have said it better myself.....so when are you running for President....and please have a current, and public birth certificate...H
 
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Eliminate all social programs that are not producing significant and measurable results. Work to cut all the fat and pork and waste you can. THEN cut EVERYTHING ELSE by 20% across the board... and I mean everything. SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Medi-Drugs, the MILITARY, yes much as it pains me even NASA. Everything, bar none. The CIA. The FBI and US Marshals, the DEA and ATF and Secret Service. Then put a five-year freeze on any and all increases or "out of budget" expenditures which can only be exceeded on a line-item basis by a 60% vote in both Houses.

Do that and we may recover and remain a world power.

Don't and we may be in for a rougher 5-10-15 years than almost anyone alive can imagine.
 
Okay. No, I wasn't in the military. I was denied service due to a hearing problem. I was a cop instead. However, I think veteran's services are the debt we owe them for fighting for their country, and in many cases suffering lifelong health problems for doing their duty. However, given how much trouble we're in, even cutting veteran's benefits might have to be on the table.




If the economy collapses entirely, all those social programs are going to vanish like a snowflake hitting a red-hot woodstove. We can cut some now, or lose everything in 2, 5, maybe 10 years.

I don't want to be alarmist but we really are on the edge of being in real trouble, worse than most people can imagine. We added roughly a trillion dollars in debt to our load last year; this year it will probably be more than a trillion. Our debt is killing us. Countries are dropping the US Dollar left and right... if this goes on, the price of imports will rise dramatically. If the rest of the world loses faith in the US dollar because of our massive unpaid and unsupported debts (and they're getting close to that right now), our already tottering economy could suffer a fatal blow.

Most people these days think being poor is not being able to afford cable TV and a new car. They don't know what real economic trouble is, but I'm afraid we may find out if we don't bring spending under control.

It could be as bad as 1929-1939 all over again. Ever heard Depression-era people talking about how some families had to choose to let some of their children starve and die, so that they could feed the other children enough to keep them alive? We'll have far worse to worry about than Social Security and food stamps if we suffer that level of collapse again... or worse. The Great Depression was somewhat mitigated by the fact that most Americans still lived on the family farm back then... nowadays most Americans live in cities and barely know how to grow a fern, let along a field of corn. It could get really bad.

We can't keep adding a trillion-plus to our debt every year.
It.
Is.
Not.
Sustainable.

It was pretty obvious seeing the trap she was trying to set for you. You could have had an old nose and still sniffed that one out.

Now..AS a military retiree, let me jump into that trap like a wolf after a bacon scented tallow ball...

I think there are MANY programs which have been passed due to political expediency that should be cancelled. For example...the VA's concurrent disability payment. It USED to be that if you were deemed disabled due to a service connected disability that your retirement was reduced by the appropriate percentage and that percentage was then paid tax free to the vet. (example... 40% disabled vet would still recieve 60% of their retirement from the military and then 40% from the VA tax free). Now...with concurrent pay, the vet recieves 100% of their retirement AND the percentage of disability. Im ALL FOR taking care of vets...but IMO thats abusive and should be cut. Additionally...While I am fully supportive of providing treatment for PTSD, etc...Ive WORKED with disabled vets and I simply know that like many in the community behavioral health system there are many CAPABLE individuals who have simply chosen to accept the disabled label and lay back expecting others to take care of them. The part of that that pisses me off is that it dillutes and removes the ability to provide for those that are truly needy.

Yes...the military retirement is like EVERY retirement system...that which you pay into or are promised as a compensation should be honored. Thats doesnt mean there are not abuses.
 
It was pretty obvious seeing the trap she was trying to set for you. You could have had an old nose and still sniffed that one out.

Now..AS a military retiree, let me jump into that trap like a wolf after a bacon scented tallow ball...

I think there are MANY programs which have been passed due to political expediency that should be cancelled. For example...the VA's concurrent disability payment. It USED to be that if you were deemed disabled due to a service connected disability that your retirement was reduced by the appropriate percentage and that percentage was then paid tax free to the vet. (example... 40% disabled vet would still recieve 60% of their retirement from the military and then 40% from the VA tax free). Now...with concurrent pay, the vet recieves 100% of their retirement AND the percentage of disability. Im ALL FOR taking care of vets...but IMO thats abusive and should be cut. Additionally...While I am fully supportive of providing treatment for PTSD, etc...Ive WORKED with disabled vets and I simply know that like many in the community behavioral health system there are many CAPABLE individuals who have simply chosen to accept the disabled label and lay back expecting others to take care of them. The part of that that pisses me off is that it dillutes and removes the ability to provide for those that are truly needy.

Yes...the military retirement is like EVERY retirement system...that which you pay into or are promised as a compensation should be honored. Thats doesnt mean there are not abuses.

Has anything happened lately to retired Vet pay. I ask because a friend told me her retired father-in-laws check was cut by $300
 
Has anything happened lately to retired Vet pay. I ask because a friend told me her retired father-in-laws check was cut by $300

Not that Ive seen or heard. Maybe there was an adjustment, but I am on a few boards with some state vet reps and I would imagine if it had they would have come out swinging...They should call the service center.
 
Okay. No, I wasn't in the military. I was denied service due to a hearing problem. I was a cop instead. However, I think veteran's services are the debt we owe them for fighting for their country, and in many cases suffering lifelong health problems for doing their duty. However, given how much trouble we're in, even cutting veteran's benefits might have to be on the table.

You were a cop... I must have been confused, or you said something that made me think you were in the military. I think I recall you teach combat fighting, and that was why I thought you were ex military.

Anyway.. I think it would be kind of messed up if you thought your mom should not get her ss, but you shouldn't lose any of your own.

If the economy collapses entirely, all those social programs are going to vanish like a snowflake hitting a red-hot woodstove. We can cut some now, or lose everything in 2, 5, maybe 10 years.

I don't want to be alarmist but we really are on the edge of being in real trouble, worse than most people can imagine. We added roughly a trillion dollars in debt to our load last year; this year it will probably be more than a trillion. Our debt is killing us. Countries are dropping the US Dollar left and right... if this goes on, the price of imports will rise dramatically. If the rest of the world loses faith in the US dollar because of our massive unpaid and unsupported debts (and they're getting close to that right now), our already tottering economy could suffer a fatal blow.

Most people these days think being poor is not being able to afford cable TV and a new car. They don't know what real economic trouble is, but I'm afraid we may find out if we don't bring spending under control.

It could be as bad as 1929-1939 all over again. Ever heard Depression-era people talking about how some families had to choose to let some of their children starve and die, so that they could feed the other children enough to keep them alive? We'll have far worse to worry about than Social Security and food stamps if we suffer that level of collapse again... or worse. The Great Depression was somewhat mitigated by the fact that most Americans still lived on the family farm back then... nowadays most Americans live in cities and barely know how to grow a fern, let along a field of corn. It could get really bad.

We can't keep adding a trillion-plus to our debt every year.
It.
Is.
Not.
Sustainable.

I agree. There is a lot of Amish people where I live, and sometimes in the winter the storms get so bad people lose electricity and water pipes freeze. If it weren't for the Amish people knowing how to farm, can food, and heat their houses without electricity and their willingness to help the community when the power is out, then there would be a lot of frozen, dead people here every winter.

I just finished college.. Finance and Accounting, and the income is really good. Those are the type of skills that are considered more valuable today, not knowing how to farm or garden to feed yourself. However, those stills are stil very basis, fundamental, and important to have.

My grandfather was an investor and a Freemason... He was very smart. He built his own home and when he wanted a boat, he built it himself. He read a lot of science and popular mechanics magazines, and he learned how to do a lot of things. He also built model airplanes with remote controls and designed the engines inside them...

That same grandfather isn't as independent now... He had a major heart surgery and a hip replacement. He has fallen two times in past few years, and he is legally handicapped and his bones are twisted up with arthritis. He gets SS and Medicare, and the Medicaid is his life line now... the grumpy old man has to take several pills a day, and goes to the doctor regularly. He needs his Medicaid, and it's barely enough given the added cost of my grandmother's health needs too (she's diabetic).

Interestingly both sides of my grandparents build their own homes... and both knew a little about farming.

I have thought of all these things before, and that's one of the reasons why I am active in my local Habitat for Humanity chapter. It's also another reason why I don't think supporting government housing is appropriate or sustainable in the long run. There are families in homeless shelters, because there isn't enough money in the state budgets to give them government housing and there is no more government housing available. Teaching the proper skills and giving them the tools is more important than giving the people money. It also requires the community to be willing to give their time and effort, to build the homes or donate money...

Today, we wouldn't survive a depression... definitely not, but it's our own fault for no longer placing value on the most basic, fundamental skills that kept our grandparents alive and people alive before there was government assistance.
 
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ALL of these things and more NEED to be cut. The answer cant be to just do what has been done by both parties over the last decade which is spend money without regard to what or how and often the only WHY is to gain political clout or favor. Its easy for you to dismiss these cuts. I dont disagree MORE cuts need to be made including the sacred cows of Medicare/Medicaid and the military.

I am PRETTY sure people have a misconception about Social Security. I dont believe we are currently in deficit spending with regard to social security. The problem is that where before there were many more paying INTO SS than drawing out of (it has always been a 'pay it forward' type system), that withion a decade or two it is projected that there will be more drawing out than those paying in. Tweaks need to be made to that system. It could be as easy as phasing in a change for all people say under the age of 40 that they not become eligible to recieve SS until they are 65-70. They could also create a buyout program or individual investment program. There are lots of ways to make SS long term viable. Unfortunately politicians use SS as the boogyman.

In regards to the population implosion issue, it seems like some tweeking of the immigration system could easily fix that, right?
 
Eliminate all social programs that are not producing significant and measurable results. Work to cut all the fat and pork and waste you can. THEN cut EVERYTHING ELSE by 20% across the board... and I mean everything. SS, Medicare, Medicaid, Medi-Drugs, the MILITARY, yes much as it pains me even NASA. Everything, bar none. The CIA. The FBI and US Marshals, the DEA and ATF and Secret Service. Then put a five-year freeze on any and all increases or "out of budget" expenditures which can only be exceeded on a line-item basis by a 60% vote in both Houses.

Do that and we may recover and remain a world power.

Don't and we may be in for a rougher 5-10-15 years than almost anyone alive can imagine.

That's a pretty serious approach... but I don't think this has been mentioned yet in the thread

Do you remember the reports of Nancy Pelosi flying a private plane around work work purposes? I recall some reports, but don't remember how expensive that was... And other politicans uses private planes, is that even necessary???

I have no understanding of how a politician can write off such expenses in their budgets as travel or work related expenses... it doesn't seem right. And what are those budgets based on? It seems like they don't have a limit... they just pass the cost on to the taxpayer.

What about stuff like that?

Would you be for stipends or saying... no more private planes?

I understand they have to travel some, but what is the argument for all the planes they get...
 
Spending is the place where we need a leader, not a politician, to step up.

By and large people on both sides will say "cut spending". It sounds good. It sounds reasonable. Perfect world. The issue of course is when you get to nitty gritty of what to cut, suddenly people are more apt to bite their tongue. "Cut education...but, then someone may think I'm against education." and "Cut Defense...but, that would mean I want America weaker!" or god forbid "Cut Social Security? But how will I get my money!"

Spending cuts are never going to be popular because in general most government spending either 1) Is benefiting someone or 2) is something that just "feels" good. The problem is, the government isn't here and can't be here specifically to act as a benefits program for people and its job is not to do things to make us "feel good".

Real and honest cuts, across the board, need to be made and in some cases made significantly. These individual things are not going to be popular with any particular side and the individual is going to get demonized by one group or another. Its why we need a leader, not a politician. A politician is worried about getting elected again, meaning that while he may take some actions that may seem like he's trying to cut spending he's also taking actions on the flip side to likely not actually cut it for fear of pissing off another group...trying to make you look one way while he does something different. We need someone who can sit there and tell us this needs to be done, why it needs to be done, and while it may not be the most popular thing its the best thing for the health of the country and to get it done. This is not going against the "will of the people" because "The People" as a collective realize we DO need to cut spending...its the individuals and the small groupings of people that begin to get too attached though to their specific individual items.
 
That's a pretty serious approach... but I don't think this has been mentioned yet in the thread

Do you remember the reports of Nancy Pelosi flying a private plane around work work purposes? I recall some reports, but don't remember how expensive that was... And other politicans uses private planes, is that even necessary???

I have no understanding of how a politician can write off such expenses in their budgets as travel or work related expenses... it doesn't seem right. And what are those budgets based on? It seems like they don't have a limit... they just pass the cost on to the taxpayer.

What about stuff like that?

Would you be for stipends or saying... no more private planes?

I understand they have to travel some, but what is the argument for all the planes they get...


New documents uncovered by Judicial Watch show Pelosi took 85 trips on military aircraft | Mark Tapscott | Beltway Confidential | Washington Examiner
 
What could in theory, cause elected officials to vote for massive cuts in entitlements and other spending? What party would support a leader like that? Would that president put their legacy on the line by doing something so controversial?

A typical crisis won't do it, that will only justify massive debt spending. War? Gotta spend. Recession? Gotta spend. Is it just going to slugglishly improve over the next 20 years or do we offset any slow positive trends with the justification of "crisis spending"?

Egypt didn't depend on a single "leader" to enact change they wanted. I suspect if we had the actual motivation to enact this, we could get 10M to march for a week and we'd get change. Don't think we care that much though. Life's pretty short apparently. But then, if we look at houshold spending/debt, we run the country similarly it seems.

a women showing her boobs at Mardi Gras.....Can we get this back to SPENDING now.
Way to incentivize getting back on topic :) (It is that time of year isn't it?)
 
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