The Problem with Macron's Reassurance Force?

[Juin]

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It is not very reassuring. And none other than Zelensky was first to note that, even though he publicly lauded it.

For starters Macron has it backwards: his force only goes in after a ceasefire, meaning its Putin's call. An astute observer quickly pointed out that if Macron's was really a credible force it should be compelling a ceasefire, not begging for a ceasefire. That poignant fact did not elude the increasingly nervous Zelensky. At which the Green Goblin had a counteroffer: the Eu should build and arm him a million man army. That too is dead on arrival. The budget for such an army will sink the Eu.

Another thing not very reassuring is that Macron's Reassurance Force is all secret. All little Napoleon will divulge is that 26 nations will be contributing. An impressive number. But what are the sizes of these contributors and why dont they want to emerge from obscurity? It is known Germany, Poland, Spain, maybe Italy dont plan on volunteering boots, so that leaves? The Three Baltic Midgets can be counted upon. Estonia has already offered a company of troops. Before anyone sneers the Estonians pointed out that per capita that is the equivalent of 11,000 troops from Britain.

Another thing the Green Goblin found not reassuring at all is that Macron's Reassurance Force itself also demands a Reassurance from a reluctant US! And deep down the only Reassurance of interest to the Green Goblin is a US Reassurance. Which Trump will not give.

Is the EU really up to the task?

 

[lwf]

Why would a peace reassurance force be sent into an active warzone before peace is achieved? Sending in troops before the ceasefire would not be a "reassurance force." It would just be joining the war on the side of Ukraine.

 

[multivita-man]

Why would a peace reassurance force be sent into an active warzone before peace is achieved? Sending in troops before the ceasefire would not be a "reassurance force." It would just be joining the war on the side of Ukraine.

And it would be a serious escalation, as Russia would not be able to distinguish between Ukrainian troops or coalition forces. I don't view Putin's warning as a threat in the sense that if you do X, I will do Y. It's a warning: know that if you send your sons and daughters into the combat zone, they will end up just as dead and wounded as the Ukrainian forces. At that point, it's a matter of how coalition forces would choose to respond. Know that any escalation would be met with Russian counter-escalation.

 

[Mycroft]

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It is not very reassuring. And none other than Zelensky was first to note that, even though he publicly lauded it.

For starters Macron has it backwards: his force only goes in after a ceasefire, meaning its Putin's call. An astute observer quickly pointed out that if Macron's was really a credible force it should be compelling a ceasefire, not begging for a ceasefire. That poignant fact did not elude the increasingly nervous Zelensky. At which the Green Goblin had a counteroffer: the Eu should build and arm him a million man army. That too is dead on arrival. The budget for such an army will sink the Eu.

Another thing not very reassuring is that Macron's Reassurance Force is all secret. All little Napoleon will divulge is that 26 nations will be contributing. An impressive number. But what are the sizes of these contributors and why dont they want to emerge from obscurity? It is known Germany, Poland, Spain, maybe Italy dont plan on volunteering boots, so that leaves? The Three Baltic Midgets can be counted upon. Estonia has already offered a company of troops. Before anyone sneers the Estonians pointed out that per capita that is the equivalent of 11,000 troops from Britain.

Another thing the Green Goblin found not reassuring at all is that Macron's Reassurance Force itself also demands a Reassurance from a reluctant US! And deep down the only Reassurance of interest to the Green Goblin is a US Reassurance. Which Trump will not give.

Is the EU really up to the task?

They'll have a little bit of help from the idiots in Canada.

 

[Luce]

They'll have a little bit of help from the idiots in Canada.

Sorry that they're giving your Putin a sad.

 

[Integrityrespec]

I think the problem is Putin is going to have to be convinced there will be bad consequences if he doesn't stop. Obama did nothing, Biden did nothing, Trump has mad threats but now is time for action. Putin isn't convinced anyone cares enough to put boots on the ground to stop him and anything sort of that gives him the advantage because the Ukrainians will run out of soldiers before the Russians will. So whatever consequences it will take, better be strong and better be coming very very soon.

 

[Juin]

Why would a peace reassurance force be sent into an active warzone before peace is achieved? Sending in troops before the ceasefire would not be a "reassurance force." It would just be joining the war on the side of Ukraine.

The intended beneficiary of the Reassurance is Zelensky. He has wanted that "force" like years ago. Ex President Duda of Poland just gave an interview in which he mentioned the incidence when a Ukrainian S300 missile landed in Poland, killing two. Duda said Z blew it up and all but wanted an Article 5

 

[Luce]

I think the problem is Putin is going to have to be convinced there will be bad consequences if he doesn't stop. Obama did nothing, Biden did nothing, Trump has mad threats but now is time for action. Putin isn't convinced anyone cares enough to put boots on the ground to stop him and anything sort of that gives him the advantage because the Ukrainians will run out of soldiers before the Russians will. So whatever consequences it will take, better be strong and better be coming very very soon.

All the required consequences would be:

1. Weapons.
2. That's it.

 

[multivita-man]

I think the problem is Putin is going to have to be convinced there will be bad consequences if he doesn't stop. Obama did nothing, Biden did nothing, Trump has mad threats but now is time for action. Putin isn't convinced anyone cares enough to put boots on the ground to stop him and anything sort of that gives him the advantage because the Ukrainians will run out of soldiers before the Russians will. So whatever consequences it will take, better be strong and better be coming very very soon.

You're forgetting there was a president between these two, who also 'did nothing' except arm Ukraine.

 

[anatta]

The intended beneficiary of the Reassurance is Zelensky. He has wanted that "force" like years ago. Ex President Duda of Poland just gave an interview in which he mentioned the incidence when a Ukrainian S300 missile landed in Poland, killing two. Duda said Z blew it up and all but wanted an Article 5

Duda said Z blew it up and all but wanted an Article 5

for Great Buddha's sake! no US 'reassurance' force, no how no way

 

[Rogue Valley]

No European peacekeeping force will take up positions until Moscow and Kyiv have both signed the ceasefire documents.

Ignore @Juin's Kremlinesque bullshit.

 

[lwf]

The intended beneficiary of the Reassurance is Zelensky. He has wanted that "force" like years ago. Ex President Duda of Poland just gave an interview in which he mentioned the incidence when a Ukrainian S300 missile landed in Poland, killing two. Duda said Z blew it up and all but wanted an Article 5

If he had such a force prior to 2014, he would still have all of his country. A lesson for all countries bordering Russia.

 

[Juin]

If he had such a force prior to 2014, he would still have all of his country. A lesson for all countries bordering Russia.

Its a lesson for all small countries in the bullseye of big countries. The west is no less predatory than Russia; if not by miles more. Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Iran, Gaza were not attacked by Russia

 

[Rogue Valley]

Its a lesson for all small countries in the bullseye of big countries. The west is no less predatory than Russia; if not by miles more. Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Iran, Gaza were not attacked by Russia

Predatory? Tell us which of the above countries was annexed by the West? Either partially or in its entirety.

Russia has invaded and annexed the Ukraine oblast of Crimea, and portions of Ukraine's Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporezhzhia, and Kherson oblasts.

We'll wait.

 

[lwf]

Its a lesson for all small countries in the bullseye of big countries. The west is no less predatory than Russia; if not by miles more. Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Iran, Gaza were not attacked by Russia

The US has taken exactly 0% of any of those countries' land.

 

[Tigerace117]

Predatory? Tell us which of the above countries was annexed by the West? Either partially or in its entirety.

Russia has invaded and annexed the Ukraine oblast of Crimea, and portions of Ukraine's Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporezhzhia, and Kherson oblasts.

We'll wait.

Going “but they weren’t annexed”! doesn’t stop Western behavior from being predatory, and your protests are more comical given ongoing American threats to annex Canada and Greenland.

 

[Tigerace117]

The US has taken exactly 0% of any of those countries' land.

The U.S. is currently helping Israel engage in genocide in Gaza in hopes the land can be colonized, and Americans are likewise heavily involved in Israel’s illegal colonization of the West Bank.

Furthermore, the objection is totally nonsensical. Has US behavior in Latin America over the last hundred and fifty years not been predatory? They didn’t annex Guatemala or Cuba or Haiti, after all.

 

[Fledermaus]

Its a lesson for all small countries in the bullseye of big countries. The west is no less predatory than Russia; if not by miles more. Iraq, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Iran, Gaza were not attacked by Russia

BUTWHATABOUTMURICA noted.

 

[Rogue Valley]

@Juin hates America. (but he sure does love Russia)

 

[Juin]

The US has taken exactly 0% of any of those countries' land.

Why does that make any difference? Why do you think the Chinaman shopkeeper says: you break it, you own it? By the mere fact of destroying those countries and reducing their values by tens of billions of dollars the west owns that debt. The west simply walked away from it. To absolve the west the way you did is the equivalent of absolving a vandal who wrecked a Chinaman's store by telling the Chinaman: hey, he did not take anything

 

[Rogue Valley]

Why does that make any difference?

Figure it out. No one here has to spoon-feed you.

 

[lwf]

Why does that make any difference? Why do you think the Chinaman shopkeeper says: you break it, you own it? By the mere fact of destroying those countries and reducing their values by tens of billions of dollars the west owns that debt. The west simply walked away from it. To absolve the west the way you did is the equivalent of absolving a vandal who wrecked a Chinaman's store by telling the Chinaman: hey, he did not take anything

It doesn't "absolve" the US of anything. It proves that NATO is necessary to prevent Russian expansionism. Russia wants more European territory; therefore, Russia's neighbors are at risk. NATO troops stationed in those countries would protect them from Russian expansionism, since Russia would be declaring war on all of Europe if it declared war on a single neighboring country. "But America" tu quoque fallacies notwithstanding.

 

[dandolo2k]

It doesn't "absolve" the US of anything. It proves that NATO is necessary to prevent Russian expansionism. Russia wants more European territory; therefore, Russia's neighbors are at risk. NATO troops stationed in those countries would protect them from Russian expansionism, since Russia would be declaring war on all of Europe if it declared war on a single neighboring country. "But America" tu quoque fallacies notwithstanding.

The one expansionism which is currently in place is Western. A western expansionism deep into Russian territory . The creeping colonisation of Russia .

 

[lwf]

The one expansionism which is currently in place is Western. A western expansionism deep into Russian territory . The creeping colonisation of Russia .

Which country has successfully taken Russian territory in the 21st century? Which one is threatening to?

 

[Fledermaus]

The one expansionism which is currently in place is Western. A western expansionism deep into Russian territory . The creeping colonisation of Russia .

Where is this "western expansionism deep into Russian territory"?

Ukraine isn't Russian territory.

And there is no "colonisation of Russia".

Stop lying.