The Pope's New Years homily and prayer.

[countryboy]

Churches are prevented, by the Constitution, from getting into politics and making laws that require all people to follow their denomination's religious beliefs. If they do they are taking away (usurping) from government the exclusive power and right to make laws.

Libs only get upset when Conservative churches get into politics. They don't seem to mind when liberal churches do it.

BTW, where does the BOR say churches are not allowed to "get into politics"?

 

[countryboy]

You can probably enforce your religion on others.

But I promise you that I will be the ONLY person who enjoys church on Sunday.

I wouldn't want to force religion, mine or any other, on anyone. Why would you even say that?

 

[tshade]

That's a lot of "na huh", not debate. Your answers werent counter arguments, they were your beliefs or feelings...where were the arguments supporting them? Pretty sure I can expect the same then.

They were indeed counter-arguments that you cannot refute. Were YOUR comments anything but "feelings" or "beliefs" ??? Hardly. Your dodge & deflect loses the debate point ol' Lursa.......

 

[Lursa]

Libs only get upset when Conservative churches get into politics. They don't seem to mind when liberal churches do it.

I have asked this a few times. Where does the govt...Dem or Rep...keep anyone in the major religions from practicing their beliefs? Some Sharia Laws violated the Const. That's all I have. How about you? As a practicing Christian, I can say that I see nowhere that the federal govt keeps me from practicing my beliefs.

 

[Lursa]

They were indeed counter-arguments that you cannot refute.

You repeating yourself doesnt make it true. Perhaps a dictionary would help you define the aspects of debate? It's not just statements...they need to be supported by facts, authorities, examples, treatises, examples, etc.

Were YOUR comments anything but "feelings" or "beliefs" ??? Hardly.

You'd know the answer to this if you had actually refuted or debated them

Your dodge & deflect loses the debate point ol' Lursa.......

What am I dodging/deflecting? I'm here trying to get you to directly challenge mine...let's see it.

 

[Luce]

Libs only get upset when Conservative churches get into politics. They don't seem to mind when liberal churches do it.

BTW, where does the BOR say churches are not allowed to "get into politics"?

It doesn't.

However, if they do, they face the risk of losing their tax exemption.

By all means jump right across that line. I am very much in favor of taxing churches.

 

[countryboy]

It doesn't.

However, if they do, they face the risk of losing their tax exemption.

By all means jump right across that line. I am very much in favor of taxing churches.

Of course you are.

 

[weaver2]

your questions were answered precisely. What you feel is "denigration" is just the truth smacking you in the face, and you cannot handle it. You gave terrible excuses to kill a fetus.

They were not my questions and denigration is never truth it's just demeaning.

If you don't like abortion as a solution to an unplanned and unwanted child then you should be advocating for highly effective long acting reversible contraceptives (LARC) that women control as the solution instead of calling it a solution for dumb women.

75% of all abortions are performed for women who live near at or below the poverty line or they are the breadwinners in their family and have low wage jobs with no health insurance, no paid maternity leave and will lose their job if they take time out for giving birth. In these families the addition of a child or another child will harm the entire already born family. You cannot condemn abortion and refuse to give all women free access to LARCs. Many of the women that get abortions have attended schools where Abstinence Only was the sex-education program and discussion of contraception is not permitted. Additionally they may live in a state where access to contraceptives of any kind is limited because PP clinics have been closed by the state or access to contraceptives is controlled by pharmacists.

You comment that abortion is just killing babies as a solution for dumb women is not true, not realistic, not helpful. Your smart-ass quips about unplanned pregnancies are meant to be hurtful and your lack of recognition that abortion is the only avenue for many women concerned that they cannot give a child or additional child the care that it needs to grow into a whole and contributing adult is pretty callous.

 

[Lursa]

They were not my questions and denigration is never truth it's just demeaning.

If you don't like abortion as a solution to an unplanned and unwanted child then you should be advocating for highly effective long acting reversible contraceptives (LARC) that women control as the solution instead of calling it a solution for dumb women.

75% of all abortions are performed for women who live near at or below the poverty line or they are the breadwinners in their family and have low wage jobs with no health insurance, no paid maternity leave and will lose their job if they take time out for giving birth. In these families the addition of a child or another child will harm the entire already born family. You cannot condemn abortion and refuse to give all women free access to LARCs. Many of the women that get abortions have attended schools where Abstinence Only was the sex-education program and discussion of contraception is not permitted. Additionally they may live in a state where access to contraceptives of any kind is limited because PP clinics have been closed by the state or access to contraceptives is controlled by pharmacists.

You comment that abortion is just killing babies as a solution for dumb women is not true, not realistic, not helpful. Your smart-ass quips about unplanned pregnancies are meant to be hurtful and your lack of recognition that abortion is the only avenue for many women concerned that they cannot give a child or additional child the care that it needs to grow into a whole and contributing adult is pretty callous.

A good example of the RCC's "Christian" approach: just produce more hands to put $$ in the collection plates and "as long as both survive the birth with heartbeats" Demand those 'dumb' women face their consequences...punish the woman and a child.

 

[weaver2]

Libs only get upset when Conservative churches get into politics. They don't seem to mind when liberal churches do it.

Liberals' churches are not writing law and lobbying Congress to pass said laws. The evangelicals are.

BTW, where does the BOR say churches are not allowed to "get into politics"?

"Congress shall pass no law respecting an establishment of religion". and the church tax exemption law.

 

[Gordy327]

It doesn't.

However, if they do, they face the risk of losing their tax exemption.

By all means jump right across that line. I am very much in favor of taxing churches.

I tend to think the IRS overlooks any religious institution engaging in politics or waives any penalties. Taxing religious institutions, even if said institutions are in violation of tax codes & exemptions, would be seen by many as a government crackdown or suppression on religion. Politicians probably want to avoid such political suicide.

 

[Hamish Howl]

You can probably enforce your religion on others.

But I promise you that I will be the ONLY person who enjoys church on Sunday.

Oh, yes. I will be the first pastor of the Church of Malicious Compliance and the Wrath of Baby Jesus.

 

[Hamish Howl]

Of course you are.

All they have to do is violate their 508(c)(1)(a) status and they become a cash cow, like a miracle happened.

 

[Gordy327]

that's life--------I don't want to see my boss next week, so do i have the right to get rid of him????

You can quit your job.

in a sick world

In the real world.

yeah---immoral choice can fix dumb, right...??

What's immoral about abortion? Immoral according to whom or what authority?

I take it cannot refute that.

 

[tshade]

You'd know the answer to this if you had actually refuted or debated them

??? I gave you the answer......good grief, we can't debate if you don't read my responses....

 

[tshade]

They were not my questions and denigration is never truth it's just demeaning.

If you don't like abortion as a solution to an unplanned and unwanted child then you should be advocating for highly effective long acting reversible contraceptives (LARC) that women control as the solution instead of calling it a solution for dumb women.

I lead an organization in my state region that is very "pro-life", however we strongly support unwed and single mothers with money and manpower so that they will have hope that they can raise the child, we also have supplied thousands of ultra sound machines so the women can see their baby and hopefully decide not to kill it, especially for such lame reasons as "money" and inconvenience, etc............with the exception of health issues, we do all we can to discourage abortion.

75% of all abortions are performed for women who live near at or below the poverty line or they are the breadwinners in their family and have low wage jobs with no health insurance, no paid maternity leave and will lose their job if they take time out for giving birth. In these families the addition of a child or another child will harm the entire already born family. You cannot condemn abortion and refuse to give all women free access to LARCs. Many of the women that get abortions have attended schools where Abstinence Only was the sex-education program and discussion of contraception is not permitted. Additionally they may live in a state where access to contraceptives of any kind is limited because PP clinics have been closed by the state or access to contraceptives is controlled by pharmacists.

My organization believes in supporting policies at the state & federal level that would largely solve these issues

You comment that abortion is just killing babies as a solution for dumb women is not true, not realistic, not helpful. Your smart-ass quips about unplanned pregnancies are meant to be hurtful and your lack of recognition that abortion is the only avenue for many women concerned that they cannot give a child or additional child the care that it needs to grow into a whole and contributing adult is pretty callous.

Killing is the ultimate "callous"........get real.
Excuses don't cut it. Easy solutions like killing the baby do not cut it.

 

[tshade]

You can quit your job.

and you can man-up spare the baby's life

In the real world.

yours perhaps

What's immoral about abortion? Immoral according to whom or what authority?

any authority.....................when authority does not exist, you have abortion being "okay"

I take it cannot refute that.

 

[Lursa]

??? I gave you the answer......good grief, we can't debate if you don't read my responses....

Post 70 makes it clear you didnt "debate", you "snarked" >>>>You repeating yourself doesnt make it true. Perhaps a dictionary would help you define the aspects of debate? It's not just misogynistic statements...they need to be supported by facts, authorities, examples, treatises, examples, etc.

You'd know the answer to this if you had actually refuted or debated them

What am I dodging/deflecting? I'm here trying to get you to directly challenge mine...let's see it.

 

[weaver2]

I lead an organization in my state region that is very "pro-life", however we strongly support unwed and single mothers with money and manpower so that they will have hope that they can raise the child, we also have supplied thousands of ultra sound machines so the women can see their baby and hopefully decide not to kill it, especially for such lame reasons as "money" and inconvenience, etc............with the exception of health issues, we do all we can to discourage abortion.

Yes, you've said before that you run Crisis Pregnancy Centers. Yes, you are very pro-life for fetuses. Yes, we know you use ultra sound in your persuasion techniques forcing your pro-life belief on your clients. Yes, we know you think women who abort because the family is in stress is nothing more than aborting for personal convenience and and the financial stress of poverty is a lame excuse.

My organization believes in supporting policies at the state & federal level that would largely solve these issues

Sure, the policies you support; banning abortion, supporting abstinence only sex-ed, closing PP clinics, refusing to discuss contraceptives will solve poverty, unplanned, unwanted children, families in stress, lack of health insurance for low wage workers, paid maternity leave

Killing is the ultimate "callous"........get real.

Abortion is most certainly not the ultimate callousness. Forcing women that cannot support or care for a child holds that position. Look up the statistics on children born into poverty.

Excuses don't cut it. Easy solutions like killing the baby do not cut it.

That just a callous cheap shot at women.

 

[tshade]

Yes, you've said before that you run Crisis Pregnancy Centers.

wrong---never said that. Makes me wonder what else you are making up..........?

Yes, you are very pro-life for fetuses.

We support families, and the mothers/families know it.....you are wrong again......

Yes, we know you use ultra sound in your persuasion techniques forcing your pro-life belief on your clients.

no forcing.....and we are proud to be pro-life............who wouldn't be???

Yes, we know you think women who abort because the family is in stress is nothing more than aborting for personal convenience and and the financial stress of poverty is a lame excuse.

for killing? yes

Sure, the policies you support; banning abortion, supporting abstinence only sex-ed, closing PP clinics, refusing to discuss contraceptives will solve poverty, unplanned, unwanted children, families in stress, lack of health insurance for low wage workers, paid maternity leave

wrong again

Abortion is most certainly not the ultimate callousness. Forcing women that cannot support or care for a child holds that position.

they can support them

Look up the statistics on children born into poverty.

then let's rid ourselves of poverty---------------we help with that

That just a callous cheap shot at women.

excuses don't cut it Weaver

 

[Lursa]

wrong---never said that. Makes me wonder what else you are making up..........?

We support families, and the mothers/families know it.....you are wrong again......

no forcing.....and we are proud to be pro-life............who wouldn't be???

statement, no debate.

for killing? yes

statement, no debate

wrong again

"na huh" and no debate

they can support them

statement, no debate

then let's rid ourselves of poverty---------------we help with that

facile statement, no debate

excuses don't cut it Weaver

statement, no debate

 

[Gordy327]

and you can man-up spare the baby's life

That's not my decision to make. It's the pregnant woman's.

yours perhaps

Yes, the real world.

any authority.....................when authority does not exist, you have abortion being "okay"

What authority? Be specific!

I take it cannot refute that.

I made a posting error here. It should have said, I take it you cannot refute that.

 

[weaver2]

wrong---never said that. Makes me wonder what else you are making up..........?

You didn't have to. You described Crisis Pregnancy Centers

We support families, and the mothers/families know it.....you are wrong again......

You say that so smoothly.

no forcing.....and we are proud to be pro-life............who wouldn't be???

Right no forcing. Just tell the teens you prey the wrong week of their pregnancy and show them the baby furniture they can earn by attending your religious sessions until it is too late to get a 1st trimester abortion that they could have afforded.

they can support them

By sending a poor teen, unready to be a mother, home with a baby the family can't support. That's the support you are offering?

then let's rid ourselves of poverty---------------we help with that

I have yet to see it demonstrated..

excuses don't cut it Weaver

I haven't posted any.

 

[trouble13]

This pope is unimpressive.

 

[Boots]

Churches are prevented, by the Constitution, from getting into politics and making laws that require all people to follow their denomination's religious beliefs. If they do they are taking away (usurping) from government the exclusive power and right to

No. The government is prevented, by the Constitution, from forcing people to practice a specific religion. Yo7 have it backwards. And the Pope commenting on the belief that people should respect the right to life is not preventing the government from making laws allowing people to kill people.