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The Poor Are the Engine of Prosperity

minnie616 said:
What would be better for our economy is if they could get jobs with decent wages.
Problem is a lot of them stuck in inner cities or rural areas where jobs with decent wages are not nearby.
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Where are the liberals when you need them to open businesses in those areas and pay high wages??
Oh wait, busy telling the Government to make somebody ELSE do it.
 
KLATTU said:
Where are the liberals when you need them to open businesses in those areas and pay high wages??
Oh wait, busy telling the Government to make somebody ELSE do it.
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Yes. There IS a common trend...specifically those that are in that poverty class having all the 'solutions'. Cuz...THATS who I want to turn to for my economic solutions...someone that cant provide for their own basic necessities.

Oh...wait...they can almost ALWAYS provide for smokes, e-cigs, alcohol, video games, cell phones, data plans, cable/satellite, etc...just not...food, shelter, health care...
 
KLATTU said:
Where are the liberals when you need them to open businesses in those areas and pay high wages??
Oh wait, busy telling the Government to make somebody ELSE do it.
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The solutions are not easy...no one said they were.

In order for a business to survive the business needs to not only have a product people want but the public has to has the money to buy the product or service.

The middle class historically have been our biggest consumers in the US.
Therefore to have a strong economy we need a strong middle class.
 
ARTHUR 1976 said:
Just like the Defense industry Is dependent on mostly warmongering conservative politicians to buy and start unwinnable wars that drag on forever..

Corporate whores are the epitome of the Goper party..

Does you break it you bought it RING a bell???

Corporate welfare is rampant in this country, why don't Conservatives throw temper tantrums when folks want a 15 dollar minimum wage, but salivate at Corporations getting massive tax breaks..
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people like you-who have an unrealistic understanding of the economics of business, ignore the fact that if a corporation is taxed too much-it moves away taking jobs with it
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
There are some answers. The govt. can expand the public sector and guarantee jobs at the bottom; that would tighten up the labor market, and give labor the leverage to extract more from ownership. And ownership can afford to do this - our per capita income is still very high. You could also make it harder to offshore labor. Anything that tightens up the labor market would help more money flow to labor.
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in other words restrain free trade
 
TurtleDude said:
people like you-who have an unrealistic understanding of the economics of business, ignore the fact that if a corporation is taxed too much-it moves away taking jobs with it
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Most small business owners do not have the funds to just pick up and move their headquarters or jobs overseas.

They pay taxes and their employees and help keep the local economy and federal economy going.
 
minnie616 said:
Most small business owners do not have the funds to just pick up and move their headquarters or jobs overseas.

They pay taxes and their employees and help keep the local economy and federal economy going.
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No. The small business owners guts staff, moves to a smaller location, sells off assets to avoid annual taxes on office equipment and supplies, and tries to survive. Until they cant.
 
minnie616 said:
Most small business owners do not have the funds to just pick up and move their headquarters or jobs overseas.

They pay taxes and their employees and help keep the local economy and federal economy going.
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and if the taxes mean the owners are no longer making enough, they will close shop

so many wealth vandals think companies main reason for existence is to provide others jobs or tax revenue

its not-its to make the owners money. and when wealth vandals in office prevent that, the corporation will generally close
 
minnie616 said:
According to Forbes it would take about $550 billion.


Read more:


If The US Spends $550 Billion On Poverty How Can There Still Be Poverty In The US? - Forbes
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Poverty cannot be solved for two reasons: 1) it is relative to other people so poor people will still be poor people even if they are making $50K a year; and 2) People fall into poverty, so if you have someone whose dad is a doctor who picks up the crack pipe or becomes disabled, or is just too lazy to work, you have poor people again.

The goal should not be to "end poverty", rather to increase the opportunities for those who are willing to work, provide relief for those who cannot work, and for the politicians to stop interfering in the economy as much as possible because it gets them votes. The economy naturally oscillates. The downturns create the upturns. The upturns peak and then there is another downturn that creates another upturn, and so on. It is like a tractor trailer going down a hilly road--the speed ups and the slow downs are both what it takes for them to get to where they are going.
 
VanceMack said:
No. The small business owners guts staff, moves to a smaller location, sells off assets to avoid annual taxes on office equipment and supplies, and tries to survive. Until they cant.
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That's what happened to many businesses during the recession.
It was the recession that hurt them not the taxes.
 
minnie616 said:
Most small business owners do not have the funds to just pick up and move their headquarters or jobs overseas.

They pay taxes and their employees and help keep the local economy and federal economy going.
Click to expand...
That is not the way it works! when things get tight for whatever reason, the owner will layoff
the employee and will, as a last resort work the hours themselves, They do not have a minimum wage.
If each month of operation takes money from their pocket, and their is no hope of improvement,
it is time to shut down.
If the burden that caused the shortfall is economic, that is just business,
If the burden is caused from the government, that is injustice, as it harms both.
Sometimes government actions can be parasitic.
 
TurtleDude said:
in other words restrain free trade
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Possibly. No trade is completely free of all restrictions. We check food coming in, we check for safety, etc. We don't do business with a few nations that we think behave badly in the international playground. If you forbid trade with a nation that uses child labor, for instance, that's a restraint on free trade. I don't think it would be a bad thing to require our trade partners to pay a living wage, for instance.

I'm more in favor of increasing public sector jobs, because I just don't think the private sector will ever provide enough jobs for everybody again.
 
VanceMack said:
Yes. There IS a common trend...specifically those that are in that poverty class having all the 'solutions'. Cuz...THATS who I want to turn to for my economic solutions...someone that cant provide for their own basic necessities.

Oh...wait...they can almost ALWAYS provide for smokes, e-cigs, alcohol, video games, cell phones, data plans, cable/satellite, etc...just not...food, shelter, health care...
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So you think that everybody here that takes a different stance than you on this subject does so because they are poor? I doubt that. I'm certainly not poor.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
No comment here, I just thought this post was worth repeating.
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It was the recession that hurt them not the taxes.
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It could be ether, or both. If the taxes or regulations changed, the profit model that worked
before, could be changed to unsustainable.
This would be more likely in a place where the assumption is that taxes and regulation
could not possibly run someone out of business!
 
 
longview said:
It could be ether, or both. If the taxes or regulations changed, the profit model that worked
before, could be changed to unsustainable.
This would be more likely in a place where the assumption is that taxes and regulation
could not possibly run someone out of business!
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Federal Taxes are based on income.

The more the company makes...the more it pays.

From Wiki

Federal tax ratesEdit
For regular income tax purposes, a system of graduated marginal tax rates is applied to all taxable income, including capital gains. Through 2011, the marginal tax rates on a corporation's taxable income are as follows:

Taxable Income ($) Tax Rate[27]
0 to 50,000 15%

50,000 to 75,000 $7,500 + 25% Of the amount over 50,000

75,000 to 100,000 $13,750 + 34% Of the amount over 75,000

100,000 to 335,000 $22,250 + 39% Of the amount over 100,000

335,000 to 10,000,000 $113,900 + 34% Of the amount over 335,000

10,000,000 to 15,000,000 $3,400,000 + 35% Of the amount over 10,000,000

15,000,000 to 18,333,333 $5,150,000 + 38% Of the amount over 15,000,000

18,333,333 and up 35%

This rate structure produces a flat 34% tax rate on incomes from $335,000 to $10,000,000, gradually increasing to a flat rate of 35% on incomes above $18,333,333.
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Corporate tax in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
VanceMack said:
Which source would you accept as proof that businesses (even small business owners) leave due to high taxes?
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-business-is-leaving-california-for-texas-174227275.html
EDITORIAL: Businesses flee California's high taxes and regulations - Washington Times
Shooting the Golden Goose? Californians Flee Taxes - Finance - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com
It Makes Sense For Toyota To Leave California For Texas - Forbes
State leaders closely watch migrating millionaires - SFGate
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If they stop making money because they don't want to pay taxes it's a shame.

The more money you make the more taxes you owe.
If I can make another $100,000 but I have to pay $33,000 in taxes I will gladly pay $33,000 to come out $64,000 ahead.
 
JohnfrmClevelan said:
So you think that everybody here that takes a different stance than you on this subject does so because they are poor? I doubt that. I'm certainly not poor.
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No...not all poor. Some live in magic fairy tale lands. Some are completely unrealistic. Some speak of business when it is obvious they arent qualified to run a lemonade stand. Im sure most are even well intention-ed. They just arent very well connected with reality. At least not economic reality.

For example...ANYONE that thinks the POOR are the engine to prosperity and the 'answer' to creating jobs and a viable middle income workforce is to give a bunch of cash to the poor is...well...lets say they are 'cute'.
 
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minnie616 said:
The solutions are not easy...no one said they were.

In order for a business to survive the business needs to not only have a product people want but the public has to has the money to buy the product or service.

The middle class historically have been our biggest consumers in the US.
Therefore to have a strong economy we need a strong middle class.
Click to expand...

And the " demand is everything crowd always gets it wrong." Putting the cart before the horse.
 
VanceMack said:
No...not all poor. Some live in magic fairy tale lands. Some are completely unrealistic. Some speak of business when it is obvious they arent qualified to run a lemonade stand. Im sure most are even well intention-ed. They just arent very in touch with reality.

For example...ANYONE that thinks the POOR are the engine to prosperity and the 'answer' to creating jobs and a viable middle income workforce is to give a bunch of cash to the poor is...well...lets say they are 'cute'.
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Labor is the engine to prosperity. Profits are made when labor's production is worth more than the cost of labor. That should be simple enough to understand.

Where people start to differ is in their understanding (or willingness to understand) that labor represents about 99% of the people, including the poor, and 99% of the economy's paying customers. When ownership keeps too much of the profits, that hurts demand, which eventually hurts everybody.

All the investment in the world won't make you a dime if you don't have paying customers.
 
minnie616 said:
Most small business owners do not have the funds to just pick up and move their headquarters or jobs overseas.

They pay taxes and their employees and help keep the local economy and federal economy going.
Click to expand...

It's astounding to me that some people think that taxation has no effect on economic activity.

It goes against basic economic theory , not to mention basic common sense. Yet ( based on the post I am replying to) some people think that when taxes are raised business owners just shrug their shoulders and accept it.
 
minnie616 said:
If they stop making money because they don't want to pay taxes it's a shame.

The more money you make the more taxes you owe.
If I can make another $100,000 but I have to pay $33,000 in taxes I will gladly pay $33,000 to come out $64,000 ahead.
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So...we'll consider the point about taxes driving away businesses made then. Right?

And no one said they arent going to continue to make money. They will just make it elsewhere. And while its swell that you are fine giving away a third of the fruits of your labor to others, many of us (and oddly enough, many of us that are actually creating those jobs and businesses and income) arent quite as excited about giving it away. In point of fact...what you are suggesting speaks volumes as to the problems with this country. We now have 93 million eligible workers that are no longer in the workforce....and just fine with others carrying them. 37.3% of the population. Thats obscene. And its getting steadily worse, not better.
 
longview said:
The reality is that the $100 gets brought in, but maybe only $70 makes it to the poor,
and while their spending could cause some additional activity, it is like maybe $80,
a net loss of $20.
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So I'm interested in unpacking your response. Honestly I just didn't follow, what is it that you mean with this statement?
 
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