robin
Banned
- Joined
- Jun 9, 2005
- Messages
- 1,045
- Reaction score
- 0
- Location
- UK
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Slightly Conservative
I was only trying to be correct re electrons. Would you rather there was no attention to detail ?ashurbanipal said:Surely you understand that it doesn't really matter what we're talking about, specifically. If electrons aren't made of quarks, what are they? And whatever that is, what is that? And whatever that is, what is that. And so on.
If you prefer to talk about protons, what are they? And whatever your answer, what is that? And whatever your answer, what is that. And so on.
Once again, my point--science allows us to substitute terms. Nothing more.
This comes down to the philosophical meaning of the phrase 'what are they'.
A proton can be defines in terms of it's nature or in terms of it's components but since it's components can never be seen in isolation it would seem wise to define the proton in terms of it's properties or nature. Same thing really.
Why do you think there has to be something deeper than that, as if protons have to have a soul & a spiritual guide or some metaphysical purpose or controller or quality or something or they are made of ektoplasm or something. You are adding complexity that isn't there.
At the atomic level that stops at some point. You can talk about chocolate at deeper & deeper levels in terms of the compounds. There arrangement, then down at the level of the elements that make the molecules then how those elements are atoms that include protons & electrons & neutrons, but at some point it has to stop. You can't go on forever. Nature sets a limit becuase you can't have quarks in isolation. So there you go nature gives these things a limit but you still can't accept that !
Protons are made of quarks. Protons behave in certain ways in magnetic fields or electric fields. They have one unit of + charge. They have mass about 1800 times more than an electron. That's it. That's the proton. Apart from saying it's made of quarks, the best way to define it is by it's nature. What's wrong with that ?
Incidently I find it rather elegant of nature that quarks cannot be seen in isolation. It means one can't go on forever spliting the universe up into tinier & tinier chunks. Rather like quantum mechanics limits the information within a system. In other words one leads ultimately to graininess rather like in a photograph. Our images are made up of a finite number of photons rather than continuous waves. The limit one hits when trying to reduce X-ray dose to patients is ultimately quantum mottle.
One cannot zoom in for ever to an image, be it a radiograph or a photograph & never run out of detail. One also cannot zoom into objects with an electron microscope & never run out of detail. Even if one wasn't limited by the number of electrons used to make the image, one is limited by the finite number of atoms within the object. It gives systems a finite nature that for me, makes them easier to grasp.
Last edited: