The Philosophy of Liberty

[Dibbler]

Damn you Libertarians !


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XIuCHVRjRoQ

You're asking me to think, don't make me think. :2razz:

 

[Henrin]

The maker of that video pretty much described why I'm a voluntaryist.

 

[Lutherf]

Interestingly enough, I just finished a conversation with a client on exactly this concept. My client and I are diametrically opposed on political ideology but in absolute agreement that liberty can only be maintained when we seek to understand, evaluate and internalize the beliefs of others.

 

[Moot]

"Every man has a Property in his own Person" - John Locke

 

[cpwill]

I was with it right up until the "Solution" bit, where they argued that "Oh, the solution is for people to cease being willing to initiate violence, or have others do so on their behalf."


Yes, and if men were angels, no government would be necessary.


But they are not.


Humanity is inherently Fallen. We are Broken, we do and tolerate Evil. There neither is nor will be a New Libertarian Man any more than there was a New Soviet Man.

 

[d0gbreath]

I am a new Libertarian man.

 

[Mach]

I think some libertarian ideals form a good foundation for how one should think politically.
But it's a foundation only, you have to build on top of that based on reality and slightly more complex things like externalities, society, efficiency, etc.
Having those libertarian ideals help weigh those things and is a lens with which you can view them.

Also, maybe one day culture will get more like that and we can reduce government because we do find better ways. But that would be a long way down the road.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

I agreed with the video until it started in with the "taxation is theft and slavery" idiocy. If we are going to live in a civilized society and have our rights protected, we must have a government; that government is authorized by the consent of the governed to demand taxes to fund its activities as, likewise, authorized by the consent of the governed.

This doesn't change the bedrock principles of liberty, and I agree that the government has no moral authority to murder, enslave, or steal on behalf of its constituents; however, reasonable taxation to pay for programs that the government does have the moral authority to implement are necessary and just.

 

[WI Crippler]

I just can't quite get on board with libertarian philosophy. I feel too strongly that people have an inherent duty to society, whether it be at a community level or higher. Over emphasizing personal liberty breaks down social structure IMO. I'm not saying the government should control every aspect of our lives, but communities begin breaking down when we quit participating in them.

 

[Tanola]

"Every man has a Property in his own Person" - John Locke

Locke went on to say, however, that man's liberty is constrained by the law of nature. This puts him somewhat at odds with guys like Hobbes and Mill. In fact, Mill is a much better figurehead for the philosophy of libertarianism than Locke.

 

[Logicman]

Those who leave God and his morality out of the equation are missing a significant point, as we see below:

Benjamin Rush, a signer of the Declaration of Independence who was also known as the “Father of Public Schools,” once had this to offer: “The only foundation for a republic is…religion. Without it there can be no virtue, and without virtue there can be no liberty.”

Don’t miss the significance of that last statement: “..without virtue there can be no liberty….” The principle is clear – a lack of virtue engenders bondage. As one writer noted, “Intemperate men can never be free because their passions give rise to their fetters (bindings).” The more liberties a godless people achieve, the more enslaved they ultimately become in their worldly obsessions.

Still another founding father, the Reverend John Witherspoon, mirrored Benjamin Rush when he declared, “…Civil liberty cannot long be preserved without virtue….”

https://righterreport.com/2011/07/16/the-moral-foundations-of-america-2/

We look at the moral degradation of Rome and other societies which went down the tubes, and the same in America, where we are slowly losing our liberties, and the message becomes even clearer. Without Godly virtue, liberty is fleeting. If society doesn't lose it on their own, God will step in when immorality gets too far out of line (note Sodom and Gomorrah, the moral degradation in Israel when it was sacked, etc.), and levy his judgment.