The parallels between US propaganda on the Iraq war and Russia on the Ukraine war are huge

[Craig234]

I don't have time to add commentary, but read this speech by Bush and count off the deceptions, the lies, the manipulations, and how comparable they are to Russia and Putin's statements on Ukraine.

Full text: Bush's speech

A transcript of George Bush's war ultimatum speech from the Cross Hall in the White House.

www.theguardian.com

 

[Integrityrespec]

I don't have time to add commentary, but read this speech by Bush and count off the deceptions, the lies, the manipulations, and how comparable they are to Russia and Putin's statements on Ukraine.

Full text: Bush's speech

A transcript of George Bush's war ultimatum speech from the Cross Hall in the White House.

www.theguardian.com

Seriously?

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I don't have time to add commentary, but read this speech by Bush and count off the deceptions, the lies, the manipulations, and how comparable they are to Russia and Putin's statements on Ukraine.

Full text: Bush's speech

A transcript of George Bush's war ultimatum speech from the Cross Hall in the White House.

www.theguardian.com

Right.

Thats why I'm not excited about Russia and Ukraine.

These things will happen and the world will keep right on spinning without me being excited about it.

The USA certainly has no moral high ground over anyone at this point, and should concentrate on minding its business and getting its own house in order imo.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

Seriously?

Seriously.

He's not Putin you on man. Its the same schtick.

 

[Razoo]

Strategic Errors of Monumental Proportions
By Lt. Gen. William E. Odom (Ret.)

Text of testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 18 January 2007.

Good afternoon, Senator Biden, and members of the committee. It is a grave responsibility to testify before you today because the issue, the war in Iraq, is of such monumental importance.

You have asked me to address primarily the military aspects of the war. Although I shall comply, I must emphasize that it makes no sense to separate them from the political aspects. Military actions are merely the most extreme form of politics. If politics is the business of deciding "who gets what, when, how," as Boss Tweed of Tammany Hall in New York City once said, then the military aspects of war are the most extreme form of politics. The war in Iraq will answer that question there.

Strategic Overview

We cannot have the slightest understanding of the likely consequences of proposed changes in our war policy without relating the role that US military forces can play in that conflict is seriously limited by all the political decisions the US government has already taken. The most fundamental decision was setting as its larger strategic purpose the stabilization of the region by building a democracy in Iraq and encouraging its spread. This, of course, was to risk destabilizing the region by starting a war.

Military operations must be judged by whether and how they contribute to accomplishing war aims. No clear view is possible of where we are today and where we are headed without constant focus on war aims and how they affect US interests. The interaction of interests, war aims, and military operations defines the strategic context in which we find ourselves.

Here are the four major realities that define that context:

1. Confusion about war aims and US interests. The president stated three war aims clearly and repeatedly:

* the destruction of Iraqi WMD;

* the overthrow of Saddam Hussein; and

* the creation of a liberal democratic Iraq.

Read on:

Strategic Errors of Monumental Proportions - Antiwar.com Original

Text of testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, 18 January 2007 Good afternoon, Senator Biden, and members of the committee. It is a - Gen. (ret.) William E. Odom for Antiwar.com Original

original.antiwar.com

 

[Phys251]

Right.

Thats why I'm not excited about Russia and Ukraine.

These things will happen and the world will keep right on spinning without me being excited about it.

The USA certainly has no moral high ground over anyone at this point, and should concentrate on minding its business and getting its own house in order imo.

Two wrongs don't make a right. We shouldn't have invaded Iraq, and Russia shouldn't have invaded Ukraine.

 

[Mithrae]

Two wrongs don't make a right. We shouldn't have invaded Iraq, and Russia shouldn't have invaded Ukraine.

Three wrongs really; the invasion of Afghanistan was likewise based on feeble pretexts and contrary to international law. Obviously that doesn't justify Russia's invasion and no-one said it does, but ignoring or downplaying that context would be a wilful refusal to learn from history. As the only real superpower following the collapse of the Soviet Union, America had an unprecedented window of opportunity to push for strengthening and democratization of international institutions like the UN - among many possible measures by scrapping the veto powers most obviously, and ideally incentivizing member states' democratization by weighting votes according how well their governments actually represent "we the peoples of the United Nations." Such initiatives may or may not have been successful if attempted, even in the context that they'd first and foremost be reigning in America itself, but instead the US chose to go in completely the opposite direction and not only maintain, but with its invasions dramatically underscore a might-makes-right form of international 'order.'

If Russia's copycat actions aren't siezed upon as an opportunity to push for correcting those mistakes, what will be? Although with America now on the wane and China fast becoming its own superpower, the window may well be closed already and we'll one day see even worse examples of the might-makes-right doctrine which Americans, Brits and Aussies chose to embrace.